Cornering Grip, G Force Comparison - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Cornering Grip, G Force Comparison

Someone just laid the Feb '10 Car and Driver on my desk because it includes a S260 track performance comparison (at VIR). Turn 1 is titled "horseshoe" and is 180 degrees. They go on to list the various cars performance in turn 1 expressed in time and G force. Much to my surprise it showed the S260 only achieving .91g. A freakin' Mustang did better at .93g.

What gives????

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 01:11 PM
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C & D sucks...
I have an s240 with data logger and I continually pull 1-1.31 g's through turns.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 01:17 PM
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Same turn?

steel grey 04' neon srt4 low boost 360hp 400ft lbs.... here for the love of the Elise, Exige and gaining the knowledge before I can get my own...


my car.. http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f152...ny-pics-62883/

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2010, 01:19 PM
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All car magazine acts like a big jokes. The traction on a curve is mostly determined by the tire grip.

Two years ago, I installed old racing tires (from my Lotus europa when I was doing racing) on my Kia Rio V... For sure, my Kia was a lot faster in a curve than my Elise with street tire. But, I pretty certain that my Lotus is a better car.

On motorbike magasine, when they are testing bikes, typically, they are putting the same tires set on every bikes, make sense.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 03:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cokey View Post
Same turn?
Ya it's the same turn. Lot's of goofy results in their data.

Lotus Exige S260 = .91g
Ford Mustang GT = .93g
BMW M3 = .91g
Chevy Camaro SS = .90g

It's just hard to believe all of these car's cornering capability are the same!!!

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 07:06 AM
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I've never trusted C&D's driving ability... they are great at talking about cars but performance wise I've disagreed with a LOT of their articles.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre View Post
C & D sucks...
I have an s240 with data logger and I continually pull 1-1.31 g's through turns.

Good for you, but did you pull 1-1.31g's through THAT turn?


Quote:
Originally Posted by elise/europa View Post
All car magazine acts like a big jokes. The traction on a curve is mostly determined by the tire grip.

Two years ago, I installed old racing tires (from my Lotus europa when I was doing racing) on my Kia Rio V... For sure, my Kia was a lot faster in a curve than my Elise with street tire. But, I pretty certain that my Lotus is a better car.
Except on a race track the corner is not a continuous radius like on a skidpad and the g-force through the corner is a function of many variables, such as how much speed they carried into the corner, how much braking they were able to get out of the car, how much confidence the car gave them, etc. tires is just but one criteria.
Also, they reported the speed/G's they pulled on their best laps, and in that particular corner, it is not the max G that the car is capable of doing in the right conditions.

I am sure if they had lots of time, (i.e. lived with the car for many track days) they could be faster around the track, but all the cars were driven with the same unfamiliarity.

Quote:
On motorbike magasine, when they are testing bikes, typically, they are putting the same tires set on every bikes, make sense.
Actually, it doesn't. The point is to test the cars as they would be delivered from the manufacturer.
Putting the same tire on all the cars would probably improve some cars and hurt others, not all cars react the same to the tires. And then you have the issue of sizes, obviously you can't put the same size tires on all the cars, so even with the same tire, some cars would have improved grip over others because they can run bigger tires.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobaFettm View Post
I've never trusted C&D's driving ability... they are great at talking about cars but performance wise I've disagreed with a LOT of their articles.
Well there you have it, BobaFettm disagrees with them, so they must be wrong


BTW, there was already a discussion of the article




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Last edited by mopho; 02-04-2010 at 08:09 AM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:05 AM
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:19 AM
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:24 AM
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Don't forget that alot of those street tires warm up alot quicker than the A048's on an Exige. There just isn't enough data given to justify getting worked up over the numbers published.

Maybe they were all done on cold tires instantly.

As for track numbers, I've seen ChiliRed pull 1.7g's in his Gotham 265/nitron/ra1's when warmed up. Very few cars would be able to touch that on track.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:27 AM
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As for track numbers, I've seen ChiliRed pull 1.7g's in his Gotham 265/nitron/ra1's when warmed up. Very few cars would be able to touch that on track.

Especially a stock Lotus

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 08:36 AM
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Pfffft, who the hell would own a stock Lotus?
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-04-2010, 10:19 PM
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Sport Compact Car did a good job - compared skip pad Gs to Gs thru turn 2 at Big Willow. Skidpad Gs don't correlate that well to Gs thru turns on a race track. Race cars do well on track, but not so much on a skidpad. Unfortunate that Sport Compact Car went away.

g Masters Challenges - Lateral Acceleration Testing

and some of my experience during that event detailed in the 2nd half of this post:
LCS Event #2 -- Big Willow -- February 20th and 21st

I used an oval set-up on the formula car (but not on the Lotus) to maximize Gs thru the turn of interest on track, but couldn't pull that trick on the skidpad; had to run CW, then immeidately CCW.

'07 Lotus Exige S, LTS slicks: Skidpad 1.08 G; Turn 2: 1.11 G
'07 Porsche 911 Turbo: Skidpad 0.96 G; Turn 2: 0.96 G
'03 Noble M12 GTO 3R: Skidpad 0.97 G; Turn 2: 1.08 G
'01 Honda S2000, C-West: Skidpad 1.15 G; Turn 2: 1.31 G
'00 PVP 250cc Superkart: Skidpad 1.39 G; Turn 2: 1.36 G
'83 Williams F1 (FW08C): Skidpad 1.38 G; Turn 2: 1.64 G
'01 Pro Formula Mazda: Skidpad 1.30 G; Turn 2: 2.01 G (magazine's number), 2.4 G sustained (vector sum of lat + ver G), 2.9 G peak

Caption in a picture in print, but not on-line:
"Lotus Exige S: Yokohama racing slicks, Ohlins suspension and Chapman's ideals break 1g mark with ease"

And my favorite quote ever in a car magazine:
"Knowing that a car can pull 0.95g on a skidpad is like knowing a woman wears a size 34C bra. Each figure reveals one significant and specific characteristic, but doesn't say anything about the overall, uh, handling experience. "




Some questions about the formula car from the sport cars guys:
Q: What's the knob for with 11 settings?
A: Traction control.
Q: Really need 11 settings?
A: Yes ... so much better than 10.
Q: What the knob for with 4 settings?
A: Different maps for the ecu.
Q: How do you decide which one to use?
A: From the knock sensor.
Q: Where's that?
A: Use my ears as a knock sensor, with back-up from my mechanic.

Last edited by Tom_Hughes; 02-07-2010 at 08:56 AM.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-05-2010, 04:12 AM
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Bench racing is a lot of fun, and all car enthusiasts do it. It's like sports bar arguments over football teams.

One thing is certain, if the Lotus had done better in the C & D tests, folks currently busting on C & D would've been quoting the article chapter and verse as gospel.

Human nature.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 12:30 AM
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I recently done my MBA and now days I want to do some online Microsoft certifications and I Found this online notes is a best helping source to get online accurate information which is more helpful for my preparation.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 01:59 AM
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Think about it.....C & D is located..where...?? MOTOR CITY.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 05:38 AM
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I recently done my MBA and now days I want to do some online Microsoft certifications and I Found this online notes is a best helping source to get online accurate information which is more helpful for my preparation.
Well that's super..., what's this got to do with this thread?

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Well that's super..., what's this got to do with this thread?
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-11-2010, 12:20 PM
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So many variables. I raced spec F2000 where every car were the same (tires/brakes/power/aero/alignment/weight). During the course of the day lap times would vary according to weather. We were 3 guys running the same times within about 3 tenth of a sec. All our times would go up or down depending on the weather conditions. Nothing being changed on the cars (by rule).

We all did our fastest lap at the same time. And it was a few seconds faster than the worst of the day.

So comparing many cars over the course of the day (or many days), where the ability to extract the best from car to car is very different depending on the type of car and driving style. The car themselves not being set up for track (alignement/brakes). Tires pressure and overall tire condition varying quite a lot from car to car, etc. Whatever results you get out of this, is just entertainment.

In this case, getting upset because the Mustang does ,01g better is hilariously UN-significant.

Bottom line, buy what feels good. Modify to suit your needs and driving style. Enjoy.

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