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Do our cars have a "black box"?

2K views 8 replies 7 participants last post by  CMP 
#1 ·
#3 ·
I could never understand the "snapshot" the insurance company gives you to plug into your OB2 port. Basically you are doing the same thing. You are allowing an insurance company to watch how you drive and collect a bunch of data about a bunch of different drivers for free. No way would I ever plug one of those things into my Lotus. Maybe the ole ladies car......
 
#4 ·
Just wondering if the "black box" in news articles is the same as our ECU.
All modern automobiles manufactured after 1996 (If I remember the year right) that has an air bag has a “black box” of one design or another. The question has always been whether it is accessible or able to be downloaded by anyone other than the manufacturer. The “black box” is different from your ECU (Engine Control Unit) but it is tied to it.

A crash or air bag deployment typically triggers the EDR (Event Data recorder), which collects data in the seconds pre-crash, during and post-crash. Bosch Diagnostic is the most widely used CDR (Crash Data Retrieval tool) that can download via the OBDII DLC or directly into the air bag module. The EDR, PCM (Powertrain Control Module) or ACM (airbag control module) can be downloaded via model specific cables whether it is still in the vehicle or removed should the power or connectivity to the OBDII be compromised during a crash. They do require external power if removed for a download.

Many manufacturers previously would not allow downloads for proprietary reasons. However, a recent NHTSA 46-10 ruling has mandated that all manufacturers selling automobiles in the US must comply with allowing access to their “black box” data by 2014. This ruling is to assist with post-crash analysis to determine the cause of a crash and eventually make the roads and vehicles safer.

Examples of some of the information recorded include:
 vehicle speed;
 whether the brake was activated in the moments before a crash;
 crash forces at the moment of impact;
 information about the state of the engine throttle;
 air bag deployment timing and air bag readiness prior to the crash; and
 whether the vehicle occupant's seat belt was buckled.

CDR systems became available to the public in 2000.

Originally, downloads were not supported for most manufacturers except for in house analysis. Some manufacturers though, like Ford (since 2004) and GM (since 1994), have been on board for years. Others, like Honda and Toyota, just became available recently. Some downloads will store up to 25 seconds pre-crash (Ford’s PCM). Most will continue to record 5 seconds post-crash.

Currently, legal requirements for downloads vary state by state and sometimes county by county. One state may allow a post-crash download as part of a basic, post-crash vehicle inspection. Others require owner consent or even a search warrant. Either way, they are widely recognized and acceptable in both criminal and civil courts.

Bosch currently does not have Lotus specific ACM cables or Lotus specific software for a download via the OBDII available at this time.
 
#5 ·
Great info. Thank you. Is the collected data only contingent on the air bag being deployed? No deployment, then no data?
 
#7 · (Edited)
No, not necessarily. Data recording is generally dependent on “waking up” or “AE”. "AE" refers to "algorithm enable." The module in a vehicle continuously monitors its internal accelerometer. When a sudden change in speed occurs, an algorithm (a serious of logical processes, steps, or decisions) begins to evaluate if a deployment is warranted. All this information must be processed in a matter of milliseconds.

The primary purpose of the airbag control module is to fire the airbags and seatbelt pretensioners. If the "awakened" algorithm decides to fire the airbags (or pretensioners, if equipped, or both), it becomes a deployment event.

If the algorithm "wakes up" but decides not to fire the available device(s), many modules will store the data related to that event as a non-deployment file. A non-deployment file will contain some of the same basic information as a deployment file. A non-deployment file may be erased after a certain number of ignition cycles, and it may be overwritten by a deployment or deployment-level event. Some modules will hold a certain number of both a non-deployment as well as a deployment.

The crash related data is actually saved in a hexadecimal format. Not all data stored in a module is translated by the Bosch CDR system. However, it would all be available to the manufacturer.

Most modern air bags work in concert with seat belt pretensioners. That is why there are smart air bags that have multistage deployment. This system is designed to measure the weight and seating position of any passenger in the vehicle. It also notes whether or not the seat belt is fastened. Then, in the type of crash that the airbag will need to deploy, the airbag module makes an instant decision as to how hard the airbag will fire out of its compartment. The seat belt pretensioner is designed to work with the air bag and to pull you down and into to your seat prior to air bag deployment.

For certain manufacturers, in the event of a catastrophic collision the sensing diagnostic module (SDM) will apply all available power to initiate air bag deployment. Therefore, given that type of situation, it is possible that no collision data will be recorded. Note that if power is still to the modules after a minor crash, most will eventually overwrite a minor event (such as a non-deployment).

I have seen crashes where the data from a full air bag deployment was not recorded, or was corrupt and went to a default. I have also seen non-deployment data that has been stored.
 
#8 ·
It is only a matter of time, and probably not too far down the road, that all cars will have to have the capability to capture and transmit driving telemetry.

It's the next step from speed/red light cameras. The need to generate revenue at all levels of government will drive it. In the name of 'safety' our cars will have to have this, and it will be justified by the fact that we drive on public roads, and the government has always had the right to establish the criteria by which cars and drivers can be on those roads.

Insurance companies likely will be allowed to collect the data, guarantee all the insurance companies are watching Progressive's little experiment with great interest, in the guise of their right to manage risk.

All the technology already exists, they are just now trying to figure out how to foist it on us.

With ezpasses to collect tolls, the 'black boxes' in cars now, experiments like Progressive's...where they try to get you to think it's actually a benefit, all are priming us for it.

The old saying: "Drop a frog in boiling water and he'll jump right out. Put a frog in cold water, slowly bring it to a boil, and the frog will boil to death" is descriptive of the strategy.
 
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