Driver's Car

[jsauer]

I am a German engineer working on a 'new' British sports car interior.
The target is to create a drivers car. As you are the owners of the most desirable British automobiles I hope that you could help me in defining requirements for a Drivers Car.
What makes a car a Drivers Car???
Your help is appreciated!

[fpitas]

You might get some ideas here:

Requests to Lotus

My major problem with the Elise interior was the lack of oil pressure and temp gauges. To me that was a glaring omission in a car intended for hard driving.

[SweetDaddyD]

The experience of driving. Forget all the other crap.

Drive a Lotus. Then drive what "normal" people consider a sports car. You'll feel the difference.

And don't even offer it in an automatic.

[MikeLeuz]

Some random thoughts:
- all controls (especially the shifter) within easy and comfortable reach of the driver
- great steering feel (which you won't really have control of if only designing the interior) but a great feel to the steering wheel as well (which you will have control of)
- bright easy to see guages
- shift-indicator of some kind (3 LED's, etc)
- pedal placement for heel-toe

My brain doesn't work properly in the morning... might post more once I wake up later.

[...m...]

...i think foremost, everything about the interior and controls needs to be simple, direct, and preferably manual...that means no faux materials, no superfluous trim bits, no automated systems: just basic bare-bones surfaces, switches, knobs, exactly what one needs to drive the car and nothing more nor nothing less...

...always, always think about exposing the inherent beauty of the raw mechanics the driver and passenger are sitting amidst - look to an ariel atom for an example of a modern vehicle which really got this right, the elise a touch less essentially...

[kestrel74]

Sit in an ( OLDER ) Europa. It's like laying in a lounge chair. armrests at the exact height on both sides of you and the shifter is right in your hand.

[...m...]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

Sit in an ( OLDER ) Europa. It's like laying in a lounge chair. armrests at the exact height on both sides of you and the shifter is right in your hand.

...oh, you tempt...

[Tracktimeplz]

Whatever the thickness you had planned for the steering wheel, make it 20% thicker, and a small diameter (280mm) wheel itself, and
I personally prefer toggle switches to buttons, they can be easily flicked on and off and its obvious if they are engaged or not.

[xtn]

Not only should the shifter be within easy and comfortable reach, it should be only slightly down and away from the steering wheel's 3-o'clock position. The size of the knob should not be too big (see Audi RS4). The throws should be on the short side.

If I were a car company designing a car for this market, I would hire you (the engineer) and a small team of seasoned track monkeys of various sizes be live-in consultants for you.

xtn

[Lancia]

No glare dash.
No symmetrical controls.
You should be sure of everything without looking.

[alil'britdifferent]

In Beantwortung Ihrer Frage......

Many of the above point, plus some track/AutoX items to consider:

- Enough headroom to allow for a helmet.
- Good ventilation
- Firm seat with good side support
- Slotted seats for 6 point harness

Question: is this aiming to be a GT or a quasi-track car?

Keep us updated. Danke.

[MikeinAlexandria]

Oooo. Could this be the Austin 3000 from BMW?

My thoughts... BMW doesn't need an uber sports car. Try to keep the cost down to around $30,000. Do this by keeping the electronics simple. Nice stiff suspension, not the rolly-polly very the US market gets on most consumer cars from all companies. Real sport seats, like Recaros. A touch of carbon fiber in the right places for lightness, maybe the hood and roof.

No automatic transmission available at all. Just a nice six speed. Sports cars with automatics? Really?

Manual A/C system, dials and switches, no auto A/C, adds weight, cost and is not user friendly enough to operate the controls without looking at them.

Lightweight, 17inch wheels. 18s and above are for posers, 16s are small. No runflats needed either!

Gauges would be nice, like oil temp, analog style fuel gauge, etc.

So, hints? Is this a BMW, VW, Audi?

[mrcarcrazy]

The most important thing to me is that when you are driving it hard, nothing that is not needed to drive hard should get in your way. (windshield wiper stalks, radio controls, a/c controls, horn) should all, if so equipped, be out of the way for the driver to drive. The only one on the Lotus that I'd alter the position of is the horn. I'd rather it be more towards the center of the wheel.

Seating position and the seat itself need to hold you, comfortably, but firmly so that you don't have to work to stay in your driving position.

everything should feel natural. the angles of the drivers extremities need to be optimized. (I'd prefer a tilt, or adjustable steering wheel for this reason.)


Make sure whatever materials you use in the interior are, they don't produce glare, and they don't produce some toxic gas that coats the windshield and makes for a nasty film to remove.

Oh and if you do decide to have A/C and heat. make them produce enough cool/hot air to be worthwhile for those of us who live in the Desert.

[Lancia]

A two stage horn would be nice, so it doesn't have to be added.

[over40]

You might wander around to some of the other threads and see what mods have been done. Perhaps try to judge how many people thought they were important. For example over in the Powertrain area there are lots of discussions on how to add power. So, if your going to start out with an underpowered car that turns well you should provide an easy path to upgrade power.

You might also notice that there are a few threads on shifting improvements, which would suggest that it is important to have a shifter that is precise and quick.

An examination of the salvage yard or perhaps the safety threads might show the frustration Elise and Exige owners have had with making the car track worthy. A frame that is repairable and a place to attach the crotch straps of the six point harnesses come to mind. A seat that is HANS compatible as an option would be nice too.

It might be lost in the depths of the forums but having lights that don`t burn or melt and shine in the right direction would improve the driving experience at night.

Just some thoughts. Take a look around, lots of good information here.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

Sit in an ( OLDER ) Europa. It's like laying in a lounge chair. armrests at the exact height on both sides of you and the shifter is right in your hand.

This is exactly what got me hooked on Lotus - I visited a dealer (back in '71) and "laid down" in a Europa. The seats were snug, and the controls were right where they should be. Everything felt like a perfect fit - instinctive. I was hooked.

[Seb]

Weight needs to be on the lower end. Interior plastics that don't rattle like a kids toy box, and something non reflective. Refinement isn't that big of an issue in this camp since you can have comfort without refinement. Seats that are very light, yet comfortable. An example would be Tillett. They make carbon fiber seats with well placed padding. Keep all dash instrumentation simple, necessary, functional, and easy to see/use. Try to incorporate a multi-stage shift light. Optional power/manual windows with weights listed. Pedals placed appropriately for heel/toe. Appropriate air conditioning power. A steering wheel that is solid in feel, but doesn't have the horn placement where the Lotus Elise does (in the 9 and 3 position). It's very annoying when you're going around a track honking the horn.

Make sure that a driver of height 6ft+ can wear a helmet in the vehicle.

Nothing else comes to mind?

[GR82DRV]

Most cars seem to be designed for the "optimal" or "average" sized driver, and cater more to the short end of the driver spectrum across all buyer demographics (5',9" and shorter). Lets face it, most performance sports car owners are men, and on average men tend to be taller than women.

I love the seat position on the Lotus, but there is just barely enough leg room for a person of 6', 2" like myself. A little more seat travel would be great. It would also be very nice if the steering wheel would either be set slightly longer or offer a simple and light weight telescope feature for a taller person.

[JLSELISE]

Originally Posted by GR82DRV

Most cars seem to be designed for the "optimal" or "average" sized driver, and cater more to the short end of the driver spectrum across all buyer demographics (5',9" and shorter). Lets face it, most performance sports car owners are men, and on average men tend to be taller than women.

I love the seat position on the Lotus, but there is just barely enough leg room for a person of 6', 2" like myself. A little more seat travel would be great. It would also be very nice if the steering wheel would either be set slightly longer or offer a simple and light weight telescope feature for a taller person.

From the book of Lotus lore:
It is likely that the early Lotus cars were designed to be good physical fits to Colin Chapman himself. When asked about this, he said something to the effect: "if a perspective owner finds out he doesn't "fit" in the car he should buy something else to drive". Many years ago, I was fortunate enough to meet Colin in the UK and I was very happy to see that we were exactly the same size .

[ms355]

Originally Posted by jsauer

I am a German engineer working on a 'new' British sports car interior.
The target is to create a drivers car. As you are the owners of the most desirable British automobiles I hope that you could help me in defining requirements for a Drivers Car.
What makes a car a Drivers Car???
Your help is appreciated!

I am wondering how many German engineers are working in Hethel.