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Old 01-16-2013, 07:56 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The car is too fragile for an inexperienced driver. It's really cost prohibitive.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #42 (permalink)
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This guy is just trying to get the government to pick up the tab on an Elise for his school. That's a nice tax write off right there.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:47 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Hello Mr. Lybarger,

Can you tell me where you achieved your Certificate of Bada$$ery? Do you recommend the University of Phoenix's 'Demolition Man' curriculum? Is plucking a Chuck Norris beard hair enough?

thanks
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:08 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Wonder what part of Ohio this guy is from, that way I know not to drink the water there! Just think of drivers ed in the snow with this car!

Of course yelling cause of how loud it is: OK STUDENT SPEED UP FOR THE ON RAMP WATCH FOR THE DOUBLE...

And your spin out and fly into a wall divider end of story!
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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My plans were to use the car on a closed course for students. I feel the manual transmission and the lightweight/hard-to-control aspect would increase their driving skill in normal cars. Similar to lifting heavy weights and then lighter ones, the lighter ones become much easier to lift. And I am in the Newark are of Ohio.
As for my Certification in Badassery, it was bestowed upon me by a crusty old USMC Gunnery Sergent after certain debacles involving the use of Air Assault techniques during an urban egress scenario.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:44 PM   #46 (permalink)
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If I'm serious for a minute, I am not sure that improves students. You have to understand the vehicle you're driving to know what inputs work best.

If I'm in a MR or a RR drive vehicle I need to set my speed ahead of taking a curve because lifting on the throttle IN the turn will cause oversteer. If you come in too hot there are many things you can do but mashing on the brake is not one of them.

If I'm in a FF drive vehicle and I come in to a curve to hot I absolutely want to let off the throttle, because the weight is in front and grip will return to the front wheels. If I don't let off, I'm certainly going right off the road.

You didn't say specifically, but if 'the girls' are mostly driving vehicles with the weight in the front or vehicles that understeer at the limit, your best training tool is to have a vehicle that matches what they will most likely be driving, that way the habits they learn from your instruction prove useful on the road.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:25 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ted Lybarger View Post
My plans were to use the car on a closed course for students. I feel the manual transmission and the lightweight/hard-to-control aspect would increase their driving skill in normal cars.
...
I am usually the skeptic, so I am surprised that I am going against the flow here.

There are skills training - like using a manual.
That should probably start off in a small pickup with a massive flywheel before going into something with a lighter flywheel.
Getting an Elise going quickly without a LC or wheel spinning or 6000 RPM start takes a bit of work.

An Elise on a closed course makes much more sense, than in the wild.
That would be my first concern - which you have addressed.

Footwear is a major concern.
Any shoes that are too wide can get the throttle and/or clutch going in with the brake. The unlaced, massively bulky, gold encrusted basketball shoes are ill suited. I have changed footwear, and when I use clodhopper shoes I remove them and drive socked or bare footed.

Likewise you will want a kill switch if you are the passenger.

Combining, or teaming, the Driver's Ed with a high school physics course could provide a huge benefit in applied learning.

Also of benefit could be combining the Driver's Ed with the autoshop, and/or an electronics course.
You could have the spare engine/transaxel/clutch built and serviced by the autoshop course.
Some sensors could be installed by an electronics course which would allow for the Driver's Ed to have actual plots and engineering basis for conveying the theory.
This is usually done in University/College under Formula SAE or similar programs, but ding it in a high school setting may work.
For sensors you would want steering position, linear damper sensors, throttle position and brake pressure. Accelerometers could also be useful.

It has the possibility of engaging a wide range of student interest across Driver's Ed, Science, and shop courses, and if one was creative there could also be some way to get sponsorship (business) and sociology/psychology worked into the program (or that could be a thesis for a teacher).

It think this could have merit, but the cost would require some creativity.
If you can qualitatively show it helps the students on many fronts, then it would be an easier sell. The qualitative part would likely come after the program starts and would require tracking scholastic improvement over a set of students. So you have a potential classic chicken and egg problem.

I think that you need to make a proper business plan, and have some buy in from other faculty, and maybe some local dealer to really get it to fly.

In the video
you see that the person being evaluated is verbalizing what he is doing and seeing.
Do you use similar techniques to know what is going in the head(s) of the students in-situ?

Last edited by holmz; 01-16-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:58 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Lybarger View Post
My plans were to use the car on a closed course for students. I feel the manual transmission and the lightweight/hard-to-control aspect would increase their driving skill in normal cars. Similar to lifting heavy weights and then lighter ones, the lighter ones become much easier to lift. And I am in the Newark are of Ohio.
You logic is very good. You need a car with good neutral handling that is very progressive at the limit so as to give the students time to feel what the car is doing and respond appropriately.

I don't think the Elise is the right car for that purpose as it has high limits and is not that progressive at those limits due to its mid engined layout and low polar moment. This means you are have to be going hard to get to the edge and when you get there it is very narrow... you want a car with lower limits and wider edges.

To answer in terms of your weight analogy the Elise is actually quite easy to drive (including the operation of the manual transmission) and easy to drive quite quickly so it isn't the "heavy weight" you are looking for. That said as you get to the limits it suddenly becomes a very heavy weight...


PS: I will be teaching my children to drive on the Elise when they are old enough (it will be a classic car then though ).

Quote:
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As for my Certification in Badassery, it was bestowed upon me by a crusty old USMC Gunnery Sergent after certain debacles involving the use of Air Assault techniques during an urban egress scenario.
Cool
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:07 PM   #49 (permalink)
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One thing I noticed.... when I've driven other people's manual cars (Mazda 3 and some VW) their clutches were WAY lighter than my Lotus. So much that I drove their cars like **** because I was not used to it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:58 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Well I LOVE the idea of having a more intense drivers car to be used as learning tools for new drivers. I also think that the courses should ONLY be offered with cars with a manual tranny, as you are much more aware of your car and what your doing when driving a stick. Its pretty much agreed that a large majority of females are much more uncertain driving than males, however every female I've ever known that has or started driving with a manual was leaps and bounds a better driver. So without ranting, I feel like a good drivers car with a M/T would be the best choice to teach young drivers, but the Elise is just not right choice. Like said above, a Miata or MR-2, even an S2K would be good.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Buy a mid eighties Honda CRX with a 5 speed, paint it pink with a gold racing stripe and call it good. A fart can muffler will bring it up to 200 HP. or so I'm told.
At least if you hit a house cat, it doesn't cost you $8K.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:29 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Well regardless of all this talk: there is a place here in Ohio that already has you beat! Any of your students who really want to learn stuff just need to go here: The Mid-Ohio School - Home
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:39 AM   #53 (permalink)
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How the eff did I miss this thread?!!?!?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I don't know?

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Old 01-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I don't know?

TEDDDDDDDD! WE NEED YOU BACK!
Me likey though.

BTW, thoughts on the season premiere? Honestly, I thought it was probably the worst episode of the show (along with 'Lord's Force'). Just didn't find it funny.

I like Bill, but only in small doses (like on the one when Homegirl dies).

But it was good to see so much of JetSet!
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:07 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Well I LOVE the idea of having a more intense drivers car to be used as learning tools for new drivers. I also think that the courses should ONLY be offered with cars with a manual tranny, as you are much more aware of your car and what your doing when driving a stick. Its pretty much agreed that a large majority of females are much more uncertain driving than males, however every female I've ever known that has or started driving with a manual was leaps and bounds a better driver. So without ranting, I feel like a good drivers car with a M/T would be the best choice to teach young drivers, but the Elise is just not right choice. Like said above, a Miata or MR-2, even an S2K would be good.

You may be confusing causality with correlation.
Maybe the girls who were more inclined to be good drivers wanted to start out on an auto.
Or maybe the ones who you notice are better drive autos.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:36 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Me likey though.

BTW, thoughts on the season premiere? Honestly, I thought it was probably the worst episode of the show (along with 'Lord's Force'). Just didn't find it funny.

I like Bill, but only in small doses (like on the one when Homegirl dies).

But it was good to see so much of JetSet!
Idk, I enjoyed seeing the characters again, but it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. Alice seemed to be out of character in the end of the show.
JetSet's performance was great and it was a bit surreal to think about how he is no longer with us.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:07 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I like the idea of integrating different academic fields into Driver's Ed. Perhaps I could interest the Humanities department into teaming with us to increase art appreciation. How wonderful would it be for students to share a driving experience together and then express it through poetry?
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:15 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:30 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I like the idea of integrating different academic fields into Driver's Ed. Perhaps I could interest the Humanities department into teaming with us to increase art appreciation. How wonderful would it be for students to share a driving experience together and then express it through poetry?
Driving + Art = Doing burnouts to create images...

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