Elise versus: Porsches; Lambos, Ferrari and McL F1.

[globecom]

After numerous requests to compare my personal driving and ownership experiences with the Elise to previous and recent exotics here goes; however, a few points of consideration for understanding for the comparisons:

1)

I prefer a stick shift over F1, E gear or Tip, any day of the week WHEN and only WHEN, the driving experience is one that seeks to extract the maximum raw capabilities and abilities of the car in an unadulterated form.

That is to say, no power assiting in the balancing, steering, braking, suspension or driveability of the vehicle whatsover.

I.E. Turn off the ESPs, ATCs, PCMs... etc... and let the car go where physics demands it shall go based upon the driver's skills or mistakes and the road surface it is on.


2)

Except for the #97 F1, which I owned in Switzerland in 1997 for a very short period of time ( x - wife "sell the car honey it's too expensive" ) and drove for less than 500 miles: Every other vehicle I have owned has been sold with more than 15,000 miles on it and the bottom line, IMO is based upon the total driving, onwership experience.

Point: I drive my exotics unlike many other owners I have met over the years who baby them and keep the mileage low for fear of losing value. I go all out and put as many miles on them in the shortest period of onwership while awaiting the replacement models for improvements which constantly occur in these class of exotics.

I.E. The 1999-2001 Lambo's V12 had serious leaking problems in the shocks and boots because of a design flaw in relation to the weight of the car: Hence driveability was not as smooth and clean as the 2002 Murciellago and the even better revised 2005 Roadster. Drove one last night from Vegas to Boulder city and the Dam. Joe swapped his Lambo for the Elise. ( Story was a fun one. Including the cops....but I will save it for a later time. Suffice it to say he wants and Exige as soon as they become available! )

I.E. The original 308 had serious heat issues that closed down the left or right bank of cylinders and left the owner scraed to drive it more than 100 miles at a time in warmer (85 degree ) weather.

3) The Elise is the ONLY car to date I have not driven in extreme weather conditions. NO SNOW yet. I have been fortunate enough with business interests in Europe and Asia to have driven many of these cars in the Alps, Hong Kong and on the autobahn of Germany.

4) Every car except for the Lambo's and F1 have been driven cross country from coast to coast or at least 2500 continuous miles in a variety of road conditions and situations.

5) Five Cars have been driven from as far north as England and Norway to as far South as Santorini - via a few ferries - and North Africa on the Autobahns, Autostradas and French Super HI-ways at times with speeds in excess of 330 km/hour. The 540i; 996 Ruf; 600 V12 Brabus with 595bhp; 320 BMW; 740 BMW. Each trip lasted between 45 and 70 days in the summertime.

6) Most recently with Lil'Bastard on the way to Vegas from L.A., I had the Elise all the way to the floor and as fast as she would go and kept neck to neck with a Carrera S thru the winding hills and flat planes between 29 Plams and HI 40.

7) I used to autocross in Hawaii at Barbers, the Stadium and Dillingham with the SCCA and PCA for over seven straight years with a variety of cars.

Ok....enough points of consideration otherwise I will run out of story telling room.

I'm off to N.E. for a two week trip. I' ll take some time to write a few comparisons while in Maine doing absolutely NOTHING but suckin up beers and washing down a few steamers, lobsters and cod... until then....

"Drive like no other bat out of hell - safely!" j.b.

AND always remember: No car overcomes the laws of physics!

[JWA]

Wow, that's quite a point to compare from. You are a fortunate and true enthusiast. Looking forward to the follow-on post.

--Josh

[The Stig]

[jml1952]

You had me at hello. Your comparisons should make for fun reading. Thanks.

While you are at it, you may wish to add a comparison between the west coast spiny lobster and the east coast Maine lobster.

[Vantage]

Look forward to hearing you impressions James. Love your enthuisiasm. Drive safely.

- J

[JWA]

Off topic, but - Hey, a quote of mine made a signature . Kind of cool.

[Chris D.]

Originally Posted by JWA

Off topic, but - Hey, a quote of mine made a signature . Kind of cool.

LOL. Most of us are only legends in our own minds. You're actually a legend in someone elses mind. Congrats.

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by globecom

Point: I drive my exotics unlike many other owners I have met over the years who baby them and keep the mileage low for fear of losing value. I go all out and put as many miles on them in the shortest period of onwership while awaiting the replacement models for improvements which constantly occur in these class of exotics.

That's good, I don't know how the other usual folks enjoy their cars if they don't drive them. To me it's kind of not even having the car if you can't drive and enjoy it. Granted I'd drive them a lot but I would definitely not rack up miles as I would on a "normal" car.

[sleepless]

Only 500 miles in an F1? That is just way too sad to even think about

[globecom]

or should I say...leather seat?

Back from my trip and ready to add to the 25 plus years of driving experiences from all of the aforementioned and more LATER TONIGHT or tomorrow. But here is some real Ferrari exotic "afficionado" news for us to salivate on:

A posting for the newest project Ferrari here for those interested in the latest GT concept car ( better than the Enzo ) that Ferrari has offered to some of it's customers and owners - on the next thread.

[globecom]

"Multiple cooks in the kitchen has it's lessons".

[Vantage]

Sounds breath taking and very serious indeed. Might be a good investment too, should you want to sell it after a while.

I'm most interested in this text:
The Client Test Drivers will also be able to share their unique track experience with a passenger - in fact a second seat is available.



- J

[Goose]

Since you asked for opinions...

Coming from the perspective of one who will never be able to afford such things, an "opportunity" like this sounds dubious. If you've got cash to burn, then go for it. This sounds like simply another way in which Ferrari can extract a vast sum of money from wealthy car nuts.

I will bet that by the time the "lucky few" are selected, the prices paid will be well beyond the predicted 1.5M euros. If so few will be built, those that are "selected" will simply be the highest bidders.

Here's what you're going to be buying:
*Apart from the (admittedly) very unique car, you'll get lots of nice goodies and the Red Carpet Treatment for awhile.
*The chance to tell your friends you "helped design" the car - but I doubt this will amount to much.
*The chance to rub elbows with some other wealthy/maybe famous folks (if they'll let you get close enough).

[suit36]

Maybe its just sour grapes (I could only afford this car after selling the house!) but its not the most attractive thing to wear the prancing horse!

[67veloce]

A man after my own heart. Cars are for driving. I took my Elise out last night to a safe area and hung the rear end out because I had yet to even come close (I think??) on back roads and I haven't had time to get to the track.

I beleive I have spun every car (save a 1979 Dogde panel van) that I have owned. I can now say that after spining the family 1992 Camry station wagon last fall on some twisties up in Vermont. BTW, I don't reccoment this. A 3.500+ lb front wheel drive station wagon is a handful when the rear end comes around (was doing about 60) Please don't flame me, I know it was stupid and my fault. Primarily cold tires, dirty roads and my mind on something else.

Basically as I learn the idosyncracies of a new acquision I methodically push it until I find the points that the rear and/or front get loose, what causes 'unexpected' spins of other unpleasant behavior (throttle lift oversteer, pushing through corners, etc....). Most often I do this on track and large empty parking lots. Although I have stuffed my share of cars I have probably saved more and my life by doing this.

I am sending my sons to defensive/perfomance driving school before they get the keys to any of my higher perfomance machines.

Too many people in this country are poor drivers and probably can't even spell fissics :-). F=ma

As some people have noted on thhis forum a mistake, even at low speed, can quickly turn into a lost car and possibly serious injuries.

[jac]

Hell Yeah. I am very excited to read this thread. Keep writing!!

[globecom]

The FXX has it's desirability, but the pricing is ridiculous. Awaiting the full package to be Fed Ex'd, but basically there is a Forst Right Of Refusal to the Dealer. Meaning if the owner decides to sell he can't sell to anyone without giving the dealer the first right to purchase at MSRP. So that blows any increase in value right out the window and the extra $600K to $1M for the add on features dont seem worth the expense. More than likely it will be a no go for me. I don't mind spending for the "value" but I am not a fool when it comes to violating the laws of " wealth accumulation, preservation and protection".

I will update this thread with my 600 sl Brabus story of 1989 sometime later today. It was a car I had at my office in Geneva in the 80's, and boy, was it a rocket!

[globecom]

time flies when you get older. ( joking )

I was fortunate enough to be a partner with a man by the name of Ferdinand Werner. His family has been doing business based on a handshake for over 187 years ( at that time ). Ferdninand was a Swiss gentleman who acted as a "go between" between three banks in Switzerland and ultra wealthy clients. A quiet and always ( I undeline serious ) serious man. Anyway, Ferdi called me one day to inform me that we were going to find a quick cash buyer for his car, seeing as the Saudi's hired him to run an arbitrage protfolio. At the time Germany and the rest of ther big 5 in Europe were in a bad recession. The best offer was $46K for a cherry " 600 V12 Brabus with 595bhp".

I needed a car and since the auto had less than 8500km and had cost in excess of $78K for the conversion, I wasted no time in offering my price at $50k.

SOLD!

Now begins the fun. The most memorable experience was driving from Geneva to Frankfurt ( approx 2 hours 25 minutes by car with/without "staus" ( traffic jams) in less than 1 hour 42 minutes and reaching speeds in excess of
310 km.

Somewhere south of Darmstadt I was being followed by a 512tr muscle car. I saw him in my mirror at 220 clics he pulled along side me and we kept neck to neck for about
22km. I took the Neu Isenberg cutoff and for some starnge reason he followed. There was a red light by the Air Base and he made motions to race me. The next intersection was about 3.kms. I burned rubber leaving and left him behind and he never caught up. Funny thing was, I dont know if I beat him or the blue flashing lights behind me caused him to stop for the Polizei. Nevertheless, the first 2km's he was behind me and I was travelling in excess of 330km. I never saw the world shrink and go so fast.

The traction on the car and the downforce coupled with the weight of the car made it an experience I will never forget. At 310km it seemed as if the Mercedes 12cyl began to float! What an uncomfortable feeling, a car loosing control at such a tremendous speed!

[globecom]

The story, while simply a story, was shared to make one point absolutely clear: DESIGN...ENGINEERING

The Mercedes began to feel very unsafe at speeds in excess of 160mph. It wasn't designed for those speeds. Even though a ton of money was spent upgrading the suspension, engine, shocks...etc... IT WAS NOT made for excessive speeds above it's design specifications.

I have driven a 512 TR in excess of 200mph and it is SOLID and has a safe feeling.

While it is possible to spend unlimted money - see the Ford Focus with $100K+ beating out a Ferrari several months back in one of the popular Car Magazines...maybe Road and Track - upgrading many cars Evo, WRX, etc...

The driveability at excessive speeds above it's design is foolhardy and dangerous!

While the 512r has some serious oversteer at higher speeds - the 600sl doesn't - the comfort factor of the car's reqaction to the road conditions and speed, at speeds above 150 in a straight line, are there.




Why is this important when you drive a car in excess of 150 for hours on end in Europe where they are designed to be driven? IMO....after tens of thousand of autobahn miles at average driving speeds of around 120mph:

Well, the roads are made for high speeds, the reduction of stress driving at those speeds allows the body and mind to focus more on what is going on.

Nothing can be more tiring than driving at speeds which require 100% focus, attention, and defensiveness.




Focus= On the car and it's abilities.



Attention= To the road conditions, traffic and what is ahed of you.




Defesiveness= always being aware of what the cars ahead of you are doing, might do, can do, or seem to feign an indication of they are about to do.

I have noticed that when people drive they tend to indicate before they make a lane switch or turn subtle body movements, head movements or tire movements BEFORE they execute the move. Today with the "super dooper lane changes" occuring everhywhere at any speed, it is becoming harder and harder to "read" the driver's sublte body nuances.

Keep safe and drive under control at any speed!



Next story will be the F1 and how it handles above 350km per hour!

[AnsisK]

I'm just going to break in these great campfire auto stories with something I thought of after reading you last post about the FXX. If the dealers have the right to buy back the car before anyone else, simply order the car through a very low-volume Ferrari dealer. If you would want to sell the car, they would techincally have the right to buy it first. Since you chose a low volume dealer, they simply won't be able to afford to buy it back. They deny the offer, you sell it to a collector for premium. I'm not sure if it would work or if it would pay off, but it's an idea.