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Old 12-17-2012, 08:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Explain the fascination with Porsche if you will . . . .

I do want one eventually, a 911 of course, (as is any other porsche is really a "porsche") but I have not availed myself of the opportunity. What is the mystery?
I have heard they shoot out of corners and such but what else, track terms?

Last time I was a a track in Oct. a guy said to me after coming off his session, "That thing is a Porsche eater" . I know what he means as this is a common occurrence (not to crow but the average owner doesn't know how to drive them) , but how does a Porsche manage to work considering the engine placement.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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porsche is basically the benchmark for a sports car. comfy, luxurious(ish), quick, and handles exceptionally well. whats not to like.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You'd be surprised by how similar the weight distribution of a Elise/Exige is to a 911. Granted, the 911 has a higher polar moment of inertia (in other words, once it starts to rotate, it's harder to stop).

There are advantages to having a rear weight bias... there's more load on the driven wheels under acceleration, and a more equal loading of all four wheels under braking.

Also, with notable exceptions... they're very durable and relatively low maintenance.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Depending on the year you are talking about.

60's - Early 80's they are momentum cars, a lot like a Lotus. You can break later than most, maintain a higher cornering speed, and get on the gas earlier than the competition. The big difference between Lotus and Porsche is a Porsche will do this hour, after hour, after hour, after 24 hrs.

Early 80's - Late 80's that are great cars to get ice cream in. Fun weekend drivers.

mid 90's to current. They started to have displacement and turbos and suddenly have the power for the straightaways to add to the late breaking, high corner speed, early gas. Just protect the rear tires.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There's not many models that have been in production for decades so it's got legendary status now.

I'd rather get a cayman S than a 911 though, I don't like the instant-death spin from a rear engine car.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I am sure a lot of our fellow Lotustalk member do have Porsche. So please correct me if I am wrong.
1. The speed is depended on which track that you are on.
2. Can't catch P car on open highway.
3. On windy road, Exige just like flies in AU that P car can't get rip of them.
4. How much is a 2ZZ-GE compare to Metzger? Only ture Porsche GT car use Metzger. The rest of the early 911 may have IMS issue and will cause you a kinney.
5. Lotus is so forgiving, as it is way under power.
6. Even in a hardcore GT3RS, P car is like a 5 star hotel compare to single purpose motel L.
7. Whatelse?
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Dunno... Ive gotta vote the other way.

I've never liked Porsches... Just too 'froggy' looking for me and quite ridiculous IMHO. I can't deny they are pretty solid performers but ...

Just not my style.


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Old 12-18-2012, 01:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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re: P hate :)

I vote with Lotuswn.

Lot's of personal opinions below, so please, be gentle

Pros:

Good aero i.e. nothing in the nose.
Refined compromised design that has been made to work after 60 years of development
Acceleration
OK braking
Good on ice and snow, since it is the same design as an average city transit bus
Designed for track and street, the GT cars are even more track-oriented from the factory
Boxer engine design seems a good design. Boxer, flat crank, twin turbo or even single with divided turbine entrance seems ideal, except for some vibration. Why is it not more widely accepted (again only Porsche, Subaru, some older Ferari's... my tuner tunes Subi's but hates them ... I always dream of a subi into Lotus swap, it would fix rear drive-shaft angle and improve weight distribution and has a proper transaxle.... )

Cons:

Dr. Porsche copies Mercedes 120 design. Yes, he did not invent it. 120 was the only MB to use rear engine (in the early '30's). The Dr, started his career at MB.

Poor handling dynamics. 911 is one of the very few cars with this design (Beetles and Skodas and some other Soviet era copies come to come to mind....)

Do not forget who the Dr worked for from 1933 to 1945 and got most of his start-up capital....

The rear suspension design was tricky and dangerous with lots of power. Hence:
1. Lots of (famous, who could afford them) people died in the '80 in turbo cars with over 200hp in slippery conditions
2. GM copied it with Corvair (again with even cheaper/simpler rear suspension design and even more power) with deadly results.
3. Appears contradictory to the 'bus' analogy, above, but buses have low power to weight ratio, just like the safer non-turbo cars
4. The race cars from Can-Am on mostly had true mid-engine design e.g 917, 911 GT! LeMans car, etc.

The 911 continue to be tricky to drive hard. My local anecdotal evidence would suggest most wrecks at club events are 911's

911 owners are snobs, but this can be said of a lot of people

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, although new cars seem to be improving.

fron suspension design. It works, but I hate struts (invented by Colin C.!)



I would rather take a good chassis and spend the $$ making it work for me, the way I like it i.e. a Lotus Elise/Exige. I would consider a Z06 in this category. When I think about P cars, I like the GTS cars and the Cayman, but just not enough to buy one

Anton


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Originally Posted by Lotustwn View Post
Dunno... Ive gotta vote the other way.

I've never liked Porsches... Just too 'froggy' looking for me and quite ridiculous IMHO. I can't deny they are pretty solid performers but ...

Just not my style.


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Old 12-18-2012, 02:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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porsche is basically the benchmark for a sports car. comfy, luxurious(ish), quick, and handles exceptionally well. whats not to like.
You are right, the Porsche 91 is the benchmark for a good handling, but also luxurious sports car. Every car freak seems, including us Lotus owners on the forum compares his/her car against it.

So, what is not to like:
  • First off, there is a 911 standing next to you at EVERY red traffic light.
  • The design is basically outdated, but Porsche can't afford to make major changes because their customers are extraordinarily conservative
  • A rear engine is basically instable and the 911 requires an immense amount of electronics to stay on the road.
  • Before PSM et.al. in the 80's and 90's the car could be quite dangerous, because the transition from near to over the limit was very spontaneous
  • Above all, the car is ridiculously priced and Porsche makes an incredible windfall profit on every car sold.

Mind you, I had one, but was glad to get rid of it after six months. And these are the words from a German.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I do want one eventually, a 911 of course, (as is any other porsche is really a "porsche") but I have not availed myself of the opportunity. What is the mystery?
I have heard they shoot out of corners and such but what else, track terms?

Last time I was a a track in Oct. a guy said to me after coming off his session, "That thing is a Porsche eater" . I know what he means as this is a common occurrence (not to crow but the average owner doesn't know how to drive them) , but how does a Porsche manage to work considering the engine placement.
-Robert
Rob although this is the wrong forum to ask it's time to wake up and test drive the 911. To put it mildly, the 911 performance wise is an exige to the 3rd power and craftsmanship wise to the 10th power...
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey OP i got a GT3 with your name on it. Ill even consider partial trade for your 06 lol
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I could go on and on but there are two very simple, adequate words to this ponderment my good man.

Because.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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the 911 has just about the most illustrious racing career of any road based car. Thank god they dont have 48 endurance races.............
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hey OP i got a GT3 with your name on it. Ill even consider partial trade for your 06 lol
Although not a Porche fan, I want to make the GT3 my next car!! "but not yet"

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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A used, low mileage Cayman S can be bought today in the mid $30's even with Sport Chrono, sport seats and other goodies. And "Porsche certified" if bought at a Porsche dealer (if car qualifies).

That being said, the P car just doesn't have the visceral appeal or exclusivity that say, an Evora does.

My 2 cents.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Newer ones no longer have the snap spin attitude. Never liked the look but new ones are getting better esp the 2012?2013.
Porsche is in a catch 22 at present as the Caymen is technically its best handling car now but they won't relinquish that spot from the 911's. Frankly, I've seen a LOT of new ones break at the track! Now that VW owns them and should let them live on their laurels it should only be a matter of time before they slide down the slippery slope a bit.

I NEVER considered a Porsche. I always wanted a Lotus PERIOD. It is very satisfying to have friends in their Caymans and 911 Turbos come over to me and say how much fun it is to watch my car dance around a track. I routinely get the "you're having too much fun out there" comments! To me it isn't about the fastest lap time, its about the joy of making a small, light car dance at the limits! Racing has become too HP oriented as of late, again.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
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worth a 1000 words
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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A used, low mileage Cayman S can be bought today in the mid $30's even with Sport Chrono, sport seats and other goodies. And "Porsche certified" if bought at a Porsche dealer (if car qualifies).

That being said, the P car just doesn't have the visceral appeal or exclusivity that say, an Evora does.

My 2 cents.
go buy yourself a CGT that'll give you visceral appeal and exclusivity lol.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I really hope that when my Elise grows up it grows up to be a CGT
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The 911 is the ultimate daily driver and is far more reliable and cheaper to operate than an exotic.
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