Explain the fascination with Porsche if you will . . . .

[MTLDean]

In my city Porsches are status symbols. The usual drivers I see are middle-aged Moroccan jewish men going to their clothing factories, female surgeons, young Greek 35 year old entrepreneurs going to some supper club downtown, a resident who overextended his credit line, and so on.

Basically automatic Carrera 4's for all.

In my neighborhood, every second house has a 911 in the driveway. They're all the summer cars for dentists, lawyers, doctors, etc. You wouldn't catch one of these conservative guys DEAD in a high-maintenance ride like a Lotus Esprit or old Ferrari. It goes against the ethos of safety and minimal hassle in life.

I shouldn't really talk, I'm not any better. I baby my Elise and don't track it either, but I like to think I'm a bit of a gearhead, simply because I pose and think I am LOL. And to think my initial intent in 2011 was to buy a 911 for all the reasons I stated above. In the end, I'm glad I wound up with the Elise. I think I might pick up a Carrera 4S if I ever give up the S4, and drive it year-round.

[daimleri]

Well, the following is one way how to deal with the Porsche vs. Lotus issue.

Get them both !

Since i live in Scandinavia/Finland where the summer is short and those nice warm days to drive topless ain´t that many so you need to have a second car for the worse days. That´s why i have an Elise -09 and a Cayman -08.

As a soon middle-aged former motorcycle-racer i do not care anymore to go thru all that clothes on/off you have to do here when driving a motorcycle (notice our weather) so that´s where the Elise gets in the picture, not due the "performance" (or better, the lack of it) but thanks to the fantastic fun/feeling it is to drive it. And if it starts raining, just roll the top back on, if it´s getting cold, just turn the heater on - beats the h*ll out of a motorcycle in those cases (thrust me, all that will come with the years ;D)

The P is my winter-car. And what does the P stand for ? It´s a decent, well-made "luxury"-car with a slight touch of a "sporty"-feeling, it´s as good to drive as any other good car, but not in any way "mindblowing" and not even close to that fun/feeling any Lotus can give you. For me, the P could as well be an Audi TT or MB slk or or or ......

They are both nice cars and easy to live with but Elise is the one that i´ll keep.

[ishur]

Originally Posted by MTLDean

In my city Porsches are status symbols. The usual drivers I see are middle-aged Moroccan jewish men going to their clothing factories, female surgeons, young Greek 35 year old entrepreneurs going to some supper club downtown, a resident who overextended his credit line, and so on.

Basically automatic Carrera 4's for all.

In my neighborhood, every second house has a 911 in the driveway. They're all the summer cars for dentists, lawyers, doctors, etc. You wouldn't catch one of these conservative guys DEAD in a high-maintenance ride like a Lotus Esprit or old Ferrari. It goes against the ethos of safety and minimal hassle in life.

I shouldn't really talk, I'm not any better. I baby my Elise and don't track it either, but I like to think I'm a bit of a gearhead, simply because I pose and think I am LOL. And to think my initial intent in 2011 was to buy a 911 for all the reasons I stated above. In the end, I'm glad I wound up with the Elise. I think I might pick up a Carrera 4S if I ever give up the S4, and drive it year-round.

Wow. Just wow. OK, I won't comment except to say:

1. I have a BWR supercharged Elise which I can't imagine ever giving up, for a 911 or anything else.

2. I have a Panamera 4S because I need a four door, AWD sedan for winters. I know a lot of people (including Porsche owners) hate them, think they are ugly, whatever. All I know is that it's the most amazing sedan I've ever driven--incredible handling for a huge sedan, quick, even reasonably economical on gas.

3. Yes, I'm a lawyer. Doesn't (necessarily) make me a bad person. Also a guitar player and a Lotus lover. Tough to pigeonhole.

[apk919]

Horses for courses...

[FreeFall]

The reason porsche has such a bad wrap for being impossible to drive is people who are horrible drivers but have a ton of money buy them. I always think it is hilarious when people say that 911's *need* electronics just to stay on the road.... Look at this guy driving an old 911. he utalises the rear engine layout and is faster than everyone on the track.

Spa Six Hours 2009 Qualifying in traffic in a Duel Porsche 911 from 1965 - YouTube


I have an 84 911 carrera that weighs 2600lbs with 360whp, no power steering or fancy electronics and not only have managed to keep it on the road, but also enjoy driving the snot out of it every day.....

[LotusCC]

Originally Posted by FreeFall

The reason porsche has such a bad wrap for being impossible to drive is people who are horrible drivers but have a ton of money buy them. I always think it is hilarious when people say that 911's *need* electronics just to stay on the road.... Look at this guy driving an old 911. he utalises the rear engine layout and is faster than everyone on the track.

Spa Six Hours 2009 Qualifying in traffic in a Duel Porsche 911 from 1965 - YouTube


I have an 84 911 carrera that weighs 2600lbs with 360whp, no power steering or fancy electronics and not only have managed to keep it on the road, but also enjoy driving the snot out of it every day.....

Pretty spectacular driving. I would be exhausted after one lap. Can you imagine the level of concentration just to keep that 911 on the track?
With that being said, how many people regardless of marque are that talented?
It takes a lot of seat time to drive like that.
I see older Porsches at the track all the time and though they are not running on the ragged edge as this driver is, they don't seem to have too much trouble keeping it from spinning into the wall a$@ end first
Great video.


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[SwingLo]

Can someone send me a spreadsheet Gantt Chart six sigma project plan visio diagram DNA helix model chart that explains the 911 model numbers?

[RaceCarDriver]

I've owned a 996 C4S and now a Cayman S.

Regarding the 911, with the engine weight over the rear wheels, you can rocket out of corners at the track. You can get on the gas very early because of this. (slow in, fast out) It took me a while to learn this technique. My lap times dropped dramatically when I did.

When I used to track my Corvettes (C4 & Z06) the 911 was always the toughest competition.

The engine weigh over the wheels also ensures that every horsepower makes it to the back wheels. You can have a 500hp Z06 and you will just overwhelm the tires if you get on the gas too quickly, with a 911 whether its 320 hp or 450 hp turbo, every horsepower makes it to the wheels with this rear weight bias. 911's don't need a lot of horsepower to be fast because of this.

A Porsche is one of the few cars you can drive to the track in stock form, race all day and drive all the way home with no problems.

The brakes will NEVER fade which is the problem with tracking most street cars. This helps a lot at the track. You will have better lap times because you will be able to go deeper into corners.

A Porsche will never run hot, track it all day, open the engine cover and the engine is still normal operating temperature.

Most sports cars will start to overheat with extended track use, but usually the brakes will fade before this happens.

Porches are also a blast to drive. Even an older 911, it may not have the horsepower of a modern car but it is light weight and fun to toss around. You will take the long way home and its a blast on the curves.

All Porsches are fun to drive, even sitting in traffic. It drives like no other car because of that rear weight bias. If you blindfolded someone they would know they were in a 911.

I think their mid-engine cars, like the Cayman S are even better. All 911's have understeer. The Caymans S is the most neutral car I've ever driven.

[DeanG]

Why shouldn't there be a fascination with Porsche? Porsche is the most American of sports cars, baring the Corvette. The vile handling of the early cars helped give them a macho image. Lots of dealers and a large after market. Well known enough to be a status symbol. The modern cars are fairly robust, nice handling and fast.

I'm even considering a 924 as a daily driver.

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by MTLDean

The usual drivers I see are middle-aged Moroccan jewish men going to their clothing factories, female surgeons, young Greek 35 year old entrepreneurs going to some supper club downtown, a resident who overextended his credit line, and so on.

Wow! You can tell all that by looking at the car/driver? Or maybe you just generalizing and a bit xenophobic?

[edwin814]

I have a 997.2 GT3RS. I don't have a Lotus (but hoping to acquire one eventually), so don't have direct comparison on the track. I also track my '88 BMW M3. Porsche is a completely different beast on the track; at least compared to M3, since one is rear engine and one is front engine. The driving dynamic is so different. Granted the newer ones are not as tail happy as the older gens, it still requires alot of effort to drive it right/fast. People say if you can drive a Porsche fast on the track, you can drive anything.

Every car has its shortcomings. In terms of the Porsche with Mezger engine, RMS leak is a known issue for people who treat the car as garage queens. Coolant hoses can burst loose and dump coolant all over the track (dangerous!). Replacement cost for ceramic brake discs is astronomical. Centerlock is a huge PITA to work with.



old pic of my E30

[aschen]

You have good taste edwin! I thought the coolant pipe issue was solved for 997s.

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[paulhastings]

I owned an '86 Carrera for 5 years and really enjoyed it especially after a weekend club driving school.

[edwin814]

Originally Posted by aschen

You have good taste edwin! I thought the coolant pipe issue was solved for 997s.

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Thank you

I wasn't aware that coolant pipe is an issue for non GT cars. It's an ongoing problem for 996 and 997.1 GT3 and Turbo. Since they are older, the adhesives degrade over time. 997.2 supposedly have better adhesive, but who knows, since they are still relatively new.

[LotusGuy48]

I've never understood the fascination with Porsches either.

Butz Porsche who recently passed away was the man who designed the original 901/911.
Although he was a trained engineer, he must have missed the lectures on polar moments of inertia which would preclude any self-respecting engineer putting the engine where he put it in a sports car.

When he died, Porsche put out a statement that his philosophy of good design is a legacy which they will honor for all time which is somewhat ironic when all they do is graft 911 noses on most of their products giving us the ugly Panamera and Cayenne.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-Porsche and indeed admire their engineerinng expertise that has made the flawed 911 concept what it is today. However the 911 was and remains from an engineering perspective a flawed design which any competent automotive engineer would not have produced.

[btotheje]

Just stumbled across a little bit of relevance

[GuppyCaptain]

Well would you look at that?! Notice the every increasing size of the 911?

[spf4000]

Originally Posted by LotusCC

Pretty spectacular driving. I would be exhausted after one lap. Can you imagine the level of concentration just to keep that 911 on the track?
With that being said, how many people regardless of marque are that talented?
It takes a lot of seat time to drive like that.
I see older Porsches at the track all the time and though they are not running on the ragged edge as this driver is, they don't seem to have too much trouble keeping it from spinning into the wall a$@ end first
Great video.


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Laguna Seca Crash - 911 vs. Miata - YouTube

Laguna Seca Crash - 911 vs. Miata - YouTube

[mf_silva]

Great pictures and videos.

Just to clarify only non-turbo 996 Porsches have exhibited the very slight potential for RMS bearing failure. Mezger variant engines (turbo 993-997) are bulletproof.

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[invictusmaneo]

for all the people that bitch about the Evora being overpriced..autoblog just tested a highly (but not FULLY!) loaded Cayman S--performance slots right in the middle of the Evora S and NA...was a PDK..0-60 in 4.7, top speed 175 I think it was, handling/braking all roughly similar..sure quality may be better, though the 2012/13s are getting close..and the Cayman has more fiddly doodads but that is in the eye of the beholder...


anyways...as tested price? 88k.....and they said it could easily break 95k if you aren't careful with options. Absolutely no denying it is a phenomenal car--my point, is that the Evora isn't as assbrained as everyone here who hates on it seems to think. I've owned an Elise and an Evora, and truly appreciate both..