Hass Turbo Experience, A $24,000 array of Lies, Half Truths and Broken Promises

[scottyb]

Let me start out by saying that for me, I have always considered the Hass Turbo install as an experiment. Unfortunately that experiment has been one huge and costly failure for me, but hopefully the information will be able to help all of you.

Mr. Hass’s original introduction came to ET on 12-8-05 it can be seen at http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17741
In it he states:

Originally Posted by JayHass

To start, when we design a kit we look at three areas and ask:
• 1. Does the kit hit the price point for the market
2. Does the kit have reliability/durability built in.
3. Does the kit hit our performance goals.
When all three are answered “yes” then we know we hit our mark…
We put together the sum of parts that will give a healthy increase in power, run for years without worry of cracking or parts failing and hit a price point that most will realize is fair and balanced for all…
We were looking for a kit that combines reliability with a nice increase in power…
For now, I will simply say that the Elise kit has performed up to the standards of all of our other 2ZZGE kits which produce roughly 255-275whp at 7psi.”

Mr. Hass goes on to say:

Originally Posted by JayHass

It certainly is something DIY guy can do - I have not had the resources to write up DIY level instructions at this time, but we do offer one on one support to help you get it up and running. There is what can be considered a quick reference guide for the pro installer who pretty much already knows what to do, and just needs some guidance on the specifics.

It's not rocket science, this I can assure you and any competent mechanic would not have a problem at all. It's more time consuming than anything.

Originally Posted by JayHass

We provide a one year warranty on all of our in-house fabricated parts from defect. (No one I know gives a warranty PERIOD) The brand name items have their respective warranties attached. (I.E. The turbo is warrantied by Garrett)

Originally Posted by JayHass

Nope. Sorry. We don't monitor EGT - I know I know shame on us. We use individual cyl wideband or collective wideband for tuning.

Originally Posted by JayHass

And just for the record, I was one of the first in the country back in 1999 to decide to carry TSX products at the shop I used to manage: Acceleration Pluss in Wethersfield CT who is now XX Tuning.

(These will turn out to be Pretty Damming Statements)

It was because of this post that I decided to go visit Mr. Hass

I dropped my car off on Jan 11th 2006, at Jay Hass’s Place. (<-First Mistake) I was accompanied by our well known and respected member Stan. I was originally told that it would take about 4 weeks for the install. At the time I told Jay that he does not need to rush because I wanted to take his time and do it right. Also my house was under construction at the time. So I was expecting the Car in 6-8 weeks instead. At the time, I told Jay that I was signed up for a track event on March 27th. He said that the car would definitely be finished a few weeks before that date. I thought that would be great because I would have time to get used to the new Turbo prior to the event.

At the time of my deposit, I was told that I would have a turbo installed that would run better than OEM with a Stable Tune. Jay said that he would Warrantee his work and that I would not be disappointed. He went on to state that his kit would be everything and more than what was posted. I also was informed that I would have pre and post Dyno’s performed.

1/13/06 Correspondence from Mr. Hass:

Originally Posted by JayHass

Hoping to get your baseline numbers today as well and then tear into the project. I'll let you know as soon as I get the numbers.

Regards,
Jay Hassinger
Häss ProTurbo
121D North Plains Industrial Road
Wallingford, CT 06492 USA
(+1)203-949-9300
www.hassturbo.com

1/16/06 I was informed that Jay didn’t make it to the Dyno because of the weather.

1/17/06 We decided to skip the Pre Turbo Dyno because of the weather and Jay’s insistence that it wasn’t needed. I wasn’t to comfortable with this but was willing to make this sacrifice because I figured most Stock Elises should make about the same numbers on a dyno and also because unless pre and post are done on the same day there will be a discrepancy. (<- Second Mistake)

1/26/06 Correspondence from Jay:

Originally Posted by JayHass

The coated intercooler is supposed to be here late today, that's is the last piece of the puzzle we were waiting on to finish bolting the turbo system up. So we will be back in full swing on Friday to get her buttoned up regarding the turbo.

2/7/06 I dropped in on Jay unannounced. He was swamped but I saw the powder coated intercooler. Jay still needed to section my Arquay Sport Cat so that the system will work with my Arquay SS twin Tip exhaust. I was told that Jay was hoping to have the car at the Dyno next Wed 2/15/06 (5 Weeks Still not completed)

2/9/06 I was informed by Jay’s fiancée Keely, that Jay had to section some of the Arquay piping to get it all to fit together with his turbo manifold and that all the hardware fabrication was now completed.

2/18/06 Jay emailed me some pictures of the install.

2/22/06 Stopped by Jays unannounced and saw that he had stopped working on my car and was working on others in his shop. All he had left to do was install gauges and the Aquamist System (7 Weeks Still not completed)

3/1/06 Stopped by Jays. He still hadn’t done any tuning with the eManage Unit. (8 Weeks Still Not Completed) I informed Jay of my March 27th Date and was reassured that the car would be done before then. Also I was informed that Jay was going on vacation between March 16th to the 23rd. (Probably because of all the deposit he was receiving for turbo kits despite the fact that he still had not delivered a completed car)

3/15/06 I picked up my car despite the fact that it was not completed (10 Weeks Still not Completed) but this was the only option I would have if I wanted to run the car on the Mach 27th Lime Rock event because Jay was going on vacation the next day. Observations:
• The car had an awful Rough Idle especially when cold
• The car blew a ton of Black Smoke when Idling
• The car did have a tone of torque though.
• Tip in was awful jerky at low speeds.
• The Aquamist Gauge did not work
• The wiring was awful (Radio Shack crimps were used instead of solder)
• The car was leaking Oil from the oil Pan
• The car was blowing oil out the blow off valve

Basically I did not trust the wiring to take it to Lime Rock, so I dropped the car off at HRM to have them check a few things and hopefully fix my oil pan leak. Also I had Mark Star’s boys add a wing and spoiler to the car at the same time. HRM’s guys looked horrified when they glanced at the car and Mark Star said that they would clean up and check the wiring for me.

I did not originally post how about how bad the install was in the hopes that if I addressed theses issues to him in private they would all be taken care of.

3/27/06 I made it to the Lime Rock event and the car drove with a ton of black smoke out the exhaust. At one point the car started hiccupping in 3rd gear on a mild turn. I pulled into the paddox and saw Jay there. He jumped in and drove the car in the parking lot and said that the eManage unit probably “freaked out” and that it does this every now and then. Jay also went on to say that all you have to do is restart the engine and it will be fine. (I was not happy to hear this at all) Jay blamed British wiring for the Aquamist gauge, when it was his placement of the wires on the seat track that cut them. Also I had a leak in the tubing to my Boost gauge. Nick Adams pointed out that the car needed heat shielding around the turbo because it was too close to the boot. Jay shrugged this off as not needed. Also the Lotus techs at the event cringed when they saw the condition of the install. One of them went on to describe the install as,” a total mess!” (Obviously he knew more about the car than the man in charge of Elise Production by Lotus. I was not happy to hear this either, clearly Jay’s ego has swelled beyond the limits of his cranium)

After the event I dropped my car back off at HRM to fix my wing and then they would send it over to Hass to be completed.

3/31/06 I asked if Jay ever got my car to the Dyno and this was Jay’s response:

Originally Posted by JayHass

I knew there was something I forgot in that after vacation 800 things to do list.

(I was extremely displeased about this response. It seemed like a stall tactic to me.)

4/11/06 I told Keely to have Jay install a Wide Band O2 sensor after conversing with MyElise. Also I told him I wanted an oil restrictor placed after conversing with KVerges.

4/18/06 HRM delivered the car to Hass for completion (so lets say Jay is still at 10 weeks still not completed) Jay starts blaming HRM, British wiring, Moroso, the eManage unit, etc for the delayed completion of my 4 week install. (Not a good sign & it appears he has a history of noit accepting responcibility)

4/24/06 Jay installed the Wide Band O2 sensor. Of course he installed it after the Cat for some strange reason. When I questioned him about it, he said it didn’t make any difference. (Clearly he new better than the manufactures of the Innovate LC-1)

4/26/06 I picked up my supposedly finished install. (11 weeks but not really complete)

The car did not run well with Jay’s tune. I have decided to go full force into tuning the car myself since Jay was unable to do this. Also slowly but surely I am rewiring Jay’s poor splices with solder. Also I had to rewire the aquamist system because I discovered that Jay placed the wire over the driver’s seat track and it had acted like a guillotine to the wires. My hopes were to have the car completely rewired and cleanly wired by the end of the winter. I just wanted to get the car up and running as smooth as possible.

5/6/06 I discover that eManage ver 1.07 has some major flaws. Jay didn’t have a clue and blamed the eManage for the rough idle and sweeping O2 sensors. Also I notice the tune on my car is changing the more I drive it. Jay’s base tune no longer works on my car.

5/18/06 I drive the car to Jay’s shop. I have an exhaust leak and I figured he would be quicker at locating it than I. When I drive in Jay is working outside. I was there talking with him for a good half an hour before I mention that I think I have an exhaust leak. Jay then says,” Yea, you do I heard it when you drove up.” (Now why would it take him a half an hour to mention that he knew I had a leak and not mention it) Jay & I took a look at the turbo and saw that 4 out of the 5 bolts that hold the Down Pipe to the turbo were off and the car had about a ¼ inch gap between the two. (Why would something that had been delivered less than a month ago be falling apart? Also remember his introductory quote)

Originally Posted by JayHass

To start, when we design a kit we look at three areas and ask:
• 1. Does the kit hit the price point for the market
2. Does the kit have reliability/durability built in.
3. Does the kit hit our performance goals.
When all three are answered “yes” then we know we hit our mark…
We put together the sum of parts that will give a healthy increase in power, run for years without worry of cracking or parts failing and hit a price point that most will realize is fair and balanced for all…

Jay tightened the screws and said that it would be my responsibility to check them every month. He also went on to say,

Originally Posted by JayHass

“ This is not going to be like a OEM delivered car you will constantly need to check all the bolts

Also I noticed that I had a ton of Oil coming out of the Blow Off valve still. (This statement contradicts his introductory explaination fo the kit. Where is there reliability/durability if every month you need to tighten everybolt on the set up?)

Jay said that it was probably residual oil from before I had him install the Oil restrictor. (Why didn’t he clean out the Oil prior to delivering the car?) When I asked him if he cleaned out the oil he said, “Of course he did.” (This is a major contradiction with the previous statement)

6/24/06 I miss the latest Lime Rock event because I was busy chasing bad grounds from Jay’s install. Also I move the wide band O2 sensor to in front of the Cat to get a better picture of what is going on. I kept on seeing spikes in my A/F logs that would vary from 11 to 16 in 1/10th of a second while the fuel trim, throttle, injector input, injector output, and duty cycles were all constant. I assumed this was an artifact, but later found out this was not the case.

6/28/06 While driving the car with Jay’s “latest and greatest tune” (This is the tune he emailed to all his customers as his best tune yet and encouraged all of us to use it.) my engine failed. It dumped a ton of oil on the highway. I assumed it was an oil line to the turbo that might have come loose. As a courtesy I informed Jay and told him this in confidence. I wanted to see if he would even bring up the fact that he originally told me he would warrantee his work. Jay immediately said it was due to my tinkering with the MAPs and should have just used the ones he supplied. He then said that I should purchase a built 2Z engine from Monkey Wrench and have some Speed Shop install it for me.

6/29/06 I called Mr. Hass out of courtesy to inform him that my engine had a catastrophic event while using his “Latest and Greatest Tune” I had asked him to keep this between the two of us since I did not yet know the full extent of the damage or what my options were going to be. Mr. Hass agrees and recommends that I go to a speed shop and have a Monkey Wrench Built 2zz engine placed in my car. I then informed him once again that I do not know the current state of the engine and what went wrong yet.

Mr. Hass then disregards my request to keep the event quiet, breaks my confidence and decides to start covering his ass. He sends an email to everyone, except me, that they should avoid using any tunes that I have distributed because I don’t know what I am doing and blew up my own car. At this point the only information Jay knew about my car was that it had suffered a catastrophic event. Even I did not know what happened to the car at this point. I was still hoping that it was just an oil supply line to the turbo that disconnected.

As for the letter he sent out, Mr. Hass claimed that Auto Europe called because they were Dynoing a car that was dangerously lean while under boost. Mr. Hass then went on to say that it was my tune that was being used. He also went on to state that I blew up my engine because I didn’t know what I was doing. Well I spoke to the owner of that car and he stated that there was more to the story. The owner said that the Tune was installed 2 weeks prior to the Dyno. Mr. Hass was aware of this fact but failed to mention it in his email. Any professional Tuner that knows the Elise that well would have known that in a 2 week period the stock ecu can alter the tune drastically and in effect cause the car to run lean. Also the reason they were at the dyno was do determine why after two weeks the car was not running as well as before. (One has to wonder why Mr. Hass sent this email out and what his motivation was)

6/29/06 Stan comes over that night and we check out the car. Here were our conclusions:

1) The failure was not related to the tune since I have been throwing “too rich” codes since I got the car back from Jay.
2) The 2 passenger side spark plugs showed that they were burning rich, but the drivers side spark Plugs were incredibly lean. As evident by the condition of the ceramic on the plugs.
3) The plugs were fouled with oil and one showed shinny specks of aluminum on it.
4) The oil came out of the hose that use to be attached to the throttle body
5) The spark plugs were not properly tightened into the block

As for what happened, there must have either been an issue with the fuel delivery to those two spark plugs, or with the firing of those two plugs. We are leaning towards the fuel delivery to the two plugs. Anyways, this clearly created a pressure gradient within the block which over time led to the failure. Essentially it was a ticking time bomb. This would also appear as a restrictive exhaust when on the high cams. Ultimately the failure occurred when I was in the high cams when oil pressure is greatest and all engine stresses are greatest too. Pressure then built up under the valve cover which caused oil to spew out of the hose that use to be attached to the throttle body. I did notice evidence of a small amount of oil coming out of the hose weeks prior, but it was just a few drops. When I spoke to Jay about he shrugged it off as normal and went on to say that MyElise’s car does the same and it’s nothing to worry about.

On my log just prior to the failure. (note using Jays eManage Tune) we can see the A/F pulsating up and down which we assume is related to the firing order of rich and lean cylinders. In one section of the log, you can see the A/F jump between 11 to 13 to 9.5 to 14 within 1/10 of a second. This occurs at a section of the log where the throttle position is constant and had been for quite some time. Also there were no alterations to the maps nor fuel delivery during this time from the eManage. The injector input cycles, duties, and durations from the stock ECU and the eManage were all constant.

Unfortunately since I did not have a wideband hooked up to each cylinder and the fact that my LC-1 is hooked up on the down pipe just before the CAT, we cannot be 100 % sure.

[scottyb]

I am beginning to think that my car was delivered this way, post turbo install, because I have always seen these spikes in all of my A/F logs. I always assumed that this was artifact because Jay had installed my Wide Band O2 sensor after the CAT for some strange reason despite that the instructions say to place it in front of the CAT. I just recently moved the LC-1 in the hopes to determine my true A/F ratios prior to attempting to run the car open loop to get a better map as suggested by John Wechsler. Also, Jay never delivered nor showed me my post install Dyno chart (if it was indeed performed) which according to Stan would probably have showed something was wrong with the firing of the plugs if indeed the car was delivered in this condition.
We do not know if it was due to the eManage, the Stock ECU, the injectors, or poor wiring to those two injectors. Frankly I got too disgusted to investigate any further. My car was delivered without the injector adapters and I had to install them myself when I realized that my car was throwing an injector code. Obviously I missed that opportunity to investigate this possibility then. Apparently it was KVerges who told me that I needed to get an injector adapter not Jay who shrugged it off as not necessary for my car. Also it was both KVerges and MyElise who told me that my turbo needed an oil restrictor to prevent oil from blowing the past the seals of the turbo, not Jay. (Apparently Mr. Hass had made changes to the design of his kit but could not be bothered to correct those flaws in the kits he already delivered and were paid for)

As for the tune at the time of the failure, it was the tune that Jay emailed to everyone as his “latest and greatest tune” that all should use

6/30/06 I start getting emails from everybody asking what happened to my car. At this point I only told 4 people. Jay, Kverges, MyElise, and Stan. I then get a copy of Jay’s ass covering email from a friend who called me and asked what had happened.

7/17/06 It appears that after being threatened by a Law Suit by Bill Slaughter for gross incompetence Jay decided to finally contact me at my office. Obviously he wanted to gauge what was going to happen with my situation as top legal status as well. He once again jumped to his unfounded conclusions and started lecturing me on why my tune caused the engine to fail. When I informed him that it was because 2 cylinders were not firing properly he then told me that there has been an eManage recall and that the units were defective. He then asked me if I wanted to be involved in a law suit against Greddy. I told him that he should have checked my car out prior to delivery and that I had lost approximately $2,2000 to $24,000 from this entire venture. (This value is derived by the amount I paid Mr. Hass originally, replacement of the motor, removal of the turbo setup, and the inheriot loss in value of my Elise) I then asked him if he had refunded SkyKing’s money yet and at that point Mr. Hass started screaming at me over the phone. I then hung up on him and decided to post the first thread about Mr. Hass.


My Opinion of Jay Hass

1) Mr. Hass criticized me for attempting to tune my car better, however I would not have needed to do this if indeed the car was delivered as promised with a satisfactory tune.
2) Mr. Hass ignored the fact that my car was burning oil through the turbo until I confronted you with it.
3) Mr. Hass failed to mention you knew I had an exhaust leak until I mentioned that my exhaust was leaking 30 minutes prior to one of my visits because he couldn’t be bothered with it. At that time we discovered that the down pipe was missing 4 out of 5 retaining bolts.
4) Mr. Hass installed my Wide band O2 post CAT rather than in front of the CAT.
5) Frankly Mr. Hass’s abilities to wire electronics are equal to that of a 6th grader. Even Sky King had to have his car rewired.
6) Mr. Hass delivered my Aquamist gauge in an inoperable condition and blamed it on Aquamist, when it was his placement of the wires in the tracks of the drivers seat which proceeded to act like a guillotine to all the wires.
7) Mr. Hass is Sloppy and Lazy and his quality suffers from that.
8) Mr. Hass is quick to blame others rather than accept responsibility
9) Mr. Hass loves to mention that he is the only tuner who is willing to warrantee his work. Well where is it? He didn’t even offer to help me out after I informed him of what happened. He suggested I go out and buy a built engine from Monkey Wrench and have some speed shop install it for me.
10) I should not have needed to tune the car myself, especially since he charged me close to $10,000 for the installation.
11) Bottom line the kit did not perform as advertised originally by Mr. Hass. It was not reliable, durable, nor stable.

Opinion of the Hass Turbo Kit
1) The intercooler design is inefficient and backwards
2) The injectors are too big 630 cc is just too much
3) The eManage will not work with the Lotus ECU unless the stock ecu has half it’s functions deactivated
4) Technical Support for the kit sucks
5) There is no Warrantee
6) Insufficient Heat shielding
7) Air intake position is just plane stupid
8) Wide Band O2 needs to be included, which it isn’t
9) There is no Stable Base Tune that is supplied that will work with your car long term.
10) The turbo has fallen off the exhaust manifolds on numerous cars.
11) The downpipe has separated from the turbo housing on numerous cars
12) The quality of his mailed kits have had parts missing and defective delivered to customers.
13) It is not reliable in the smallest sense of the word
14) Durability is not there.
15) I had mechanical and Software problems 2 weeks after receiving Mr. Hass’s ”finished installation”
In other words, IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Questions for Mr. Hass
1) Did you ever Dyno my car, or did you just decide to charge me for something that was not performed? You have failed to produce any Dynos even after I have hounded you numerous times for them.
2) Did you every check to see if all the spark plugs were operating equally?
3) Did you ever check the cylinder head temps?
4) You stated that you verify the tune via “individual cyl wideband or collective wideband for tuning.” If you had done individual cylinder tuning, you would have realized there was a problem. Would you have not?
5) Where is this Warrantee that you constantly spoke of?
6) You blame the eManage for defects yet you delivered the car without performing any of these tests. Why?
7) Why should someone who is expecting a reliable stable kit have to tighten bolts every 20 miles? Please explain why 1Fast’s Turbo fell off on the highway on the way home from your shop?
8) Why would someone who was expecting a stable tune have to re-map the tune every 2 weeks? You still have yet to provide anyone a stable tune that will last longer than 2 weeks, but you had stated in your debut thread that you had over 120 hours of time with the eManage on SkyKings car
9) Why do other Professional Tuners/.Installers, Lotus Techs, Lotus Mechanics, and generally knowledge mechanics cringe when they see your installed product?


To date of the 5 original Hass Turbos for the Elise
1) SkyKing has pulled out his turbo and has asked for his money back because of the “crappy install”.
2) XCUSME’s Turbo has never run correctly and he just traded in his Elise for a new one.
3) ScottyB’s being converted to NA
4) 1Fast’s is at Jay’s shop for I think is the 4th time. His latest issue is that the Turbo actually fell off his car 20 miles after delivery. Jay was quick to blame Monkey Wrench again, but he has already redone the Turbo I think 3 times. Now Jay has offered to redo it again with all the upgrades he has discovered but not given to any previous kits.
5) MyElise pulled the turbo out because he was fed up with constant retuning and burning oil and general unreliability of the kit.

Mr Hass has been careless, reckless, deceitful, and unprofessional with his Kit and products. He had not tightened Brakes on one customers car and removed the heat shielding and basically delivered the car in extremely dangerous condition. But I will let that person tell his story.

I would like to thank Gaddock, SkyKing, Mikelr, Stan, KVerges, etc for backing me up and proving to the community what I have said about Mr. Hass and his kit are true.

A note to the moderators. Everything stated is well documented in my Hass turbo experience thread. What cannot be found there had been backed up by fellow members in the original thread. I think it would be a huge disservice to the community to remove this thread once again.

[scottyb]

After the original thread was removed, KVeregs contacted both Mr. Hass & I with the hopes of acting as a mediator between Mr. Hass and myself. KVerges was willing to do this at no cost to us despite my insisiting that he be reimbursed for his time.

Mr. Hass agreed, and because of this, I in good faith had not made any posts about Mr. Hass nor his kit.

As it turns out this is just another one of Mr. Hass's stall, delay, excuse statements that he is becoming famous for. KVerges did volunteer to be a mediator at no cost to Mr. Hass. Both KVerges and I are waiting for a long over due response from Mr. Hass. We have been waiting since Thursday 7/20. Mr. Hass asked for some time to think about a settlement and aid he would respond on Friday. Well Friday came and went and he asked for another extension. I agreed with the hopes to come to some agreement. So I said how about Monday 7/24/06 at 1pm. Well that came and went. KVerges seemed to be a little annoyed as well. Mr. Hass then said he would respond by the end of the day today. Well it's almost 9pm and no response. This says more about Mr. Hass's character. He agreed to mediation, he agreed to answer on Thurs, then Friday, then Monday. Not only has he lied, postponed, stalled, made excuses, but now he has wasted KVerges time as a mediator which he was willing to do for free to help Mr. Hass out.

[scottyb]

When I confronted Mr. Hass about the condition of Skykings car, his response was that it was running great and that SkyKing was completely happy with it. Then I posted what my conversation was with SkyKing, which was:

I've spoken to SkyKing in depth about his car and how it was handled by Jay Hass. He's such a nice guy that he doesn't like to post negative statements. But in a nutshell, this is what he had to say:

1) The install was a complete disaster!
2) there were only 2 of the 4 bolts utilized to bolt the turbo on the manifold
3) He only drove the car two times with the Turbo, for about a total of 20 miles, and experienced some strange behavior from the car, and from the looks of the install He didn’t want to take any chances, so he sent it to his Lotus Friend ASAP. The tech took his time reviewing things, and he is not one to criticize others, but after he had gone through the car, he was shocked with how bad things really were.
4) He has asked Hass for a refund and has yet to hear from Jay

Mr. Hass stated that I was a liar and all the statements were false. Then SkyKing backed me up with:

Originally Posted by Sky-King

This is all true,

I did speak with Scotty and he has given an accurate account of our conversation.

I did also speak with Jay today and he has offered to refund me my money for the Turbo Kit. Jay told me that due to some personal issues he had to sub out most of the work on my car and he was sorry that the install was bad, he offered to assist me with the fix of the install, however I declined and he then offered to refund me most of the cost of the Turbo Kit if I returned it to him.

Mr. Hass never subbed out the install to another installer. He Told both Stan and myself that he did the entire install on SkyKings car himself and that he was extremely happy with it.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by JayHass

To be fair to Sky-King I'm now certain he got one of the bad Emanages and frankly the experience with that is it seems to drive great and then bad enough to piss you off and then it runs great again so it's really hard to tell if there is a problem with the kit or the car is just being "stupid". (Again, it's the reason I am being proactive and just recalling for anyone having even slight symptoms)

He did contact me and mentioned there are a few small issues he would like to iron out (Like the transporter mucking with the wiring to get to and jump the battery) and tweak the tune a bit (Again, I think it's the Emanage issue showing it's head) but he was over all happy with the kit.

What he wrote is exactly what he put forward to me so his posts have been
consistent.

These were SkyKings complaints:

1) The install was a complete disaster!
2) there were only 2 of the 4 bolts utilized to bolt the turbo on the manifold
3) He only drove the car two times with the Turbo, for about a total of 20 miles, and experienced some strange behavior from the car, and from the looks of the install He didn’t want to take any chances, so he sent it to his Lotus Friend ASAP. The tech took his time reviewing things, and he is not one to criticize others, but after he had gone through the car, he was shocked with how bad things really were.

Much more than just the eManage Unit. Also why would Mr. Hass make up an excuse about a subcontractor doing the install if the only problem was the eManage Unit.

[scottyb]

Gaddock also has a collection of Mr. Hass’s Lies, Excuses, and Deception, but I will leave it to him to post

[ivan1]

Scotty - we all feel for you and what happened to your car and I think most of us are grateful you have shared your experience to allow each of us the opportunity to make informed decisions about what if anything we want to do with our car. You obviously have spent a LOT of time laying out all the details of what happened.

But my question is this, with all due respect - do you really think that anything further is to be gained at this point in posting the details again here - anyone who visits ET knows what happened and while we are all interested in the outcome (and hopeful you reach a satisfactory agreement) , I dont think posting more about the past events with Hass at this point does any more damage to him - on the contrary I am afraid you may just be setting yourself up for a lawsuit when you go beyond statements of fact, and just may push him to pursue that course of action.

Also, if I was a tuner thinking about offering a kit for the elise, I would have serious second thoughts about it at this point.

Again - you were absolutely right in posting what happened, and I am not implying you should have done otherwise, but I think there is little more damage you can inflict on Hass, but dont want to see it come back to bite you....

[jordantii]

Just a total WOB. We know, we know already.....

Jordan

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by ivan1

Scotty - we all feel for you and what happened to your car

Again - you were absolutely right in posting what happened, and I am not implying you should have done otherwise, but I think there is little more damage you can inflict on Hass, but dont want to see it come back to bite you....

Well stated.

[scottyb]

Ivan, there are people on ET who still want to know what has happened. They have contacted me and continue to ask. Also, Mr. Hass still continues to practice his deceptions. I have strictly stated facts here that have been backed up by fellow members. My hopes are just that this thread stay up for those new members that might actually be thinking of doing business with Mr. Hass. Just like 1Fast's thread about Monkey Wrench. Had there been any info like this when I was interested, I and many others would have not been such easy marks.

As for other tuners that may want to come to our community, let it be known that if they make false representations, they will be called down to the mat. Honest Tuner businessmen would not be deterred by the experiences of those that have been burned by bad experiences. They want educated consumers so that there will not be false expectations on either side.

[SweetDaddyD]

Originally Posted by ivan1

SAlso, if I was a tuner thinking about offering a kit for the elise, I would have serious second thoughts about it at this point.

Good. I would hope so. Cause if they are going to ask for $10K, they better damn know well what they are doing. If they are have second thoughts about their work it would be nice for it not to enter the market. I wish whoever put out the Fujita would of had some second thoughts on it before I spent a $240 to make a permanent $50K check engine light, and that was only $240.

It looks like Forced Fed and Hypersport have been the only ones to get the turbo route nailed down.

[Donbecker]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Ivan, there are people on ET who still want to know what has happened...

And I think posting every freakin' day about it has done the trick?

You have a beef with Hass about your turbo kit. Wow. Great. Thanks.

Go settle it with him personally, just "Jesus tap dancing Christ" please stop posting about it.

What little belief people had in you on the forum is quickly eroding as you continue to swear your complaint feces all over this board like it was some kind of aftermarket auto parts better business bureu.

This isn't "www.scottybandhisgripewithhasstalk..."

[kverges]

Originally Posted by scottyb

I would like to thank Gaddock, SkyKing, Mikelr, Stan, KVerges, etc for backing me up and proving to the community what I have said about Mr. Hass and his kit are true.

Just for clarification, I am not joining this fray on either side and have tried to assist Scotty on several fronts; I do not believe this quote was intended to make it sound as though I have taken sides either way.

I have successfully installed my turbo, FWIW, but not without my own pitfalls. I have just purchased another Elise salvage car and plan to turbo it as well. That is all.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by scottyb

I have strictly stated facts here that have been backed up by fellow members.

but when you go on with the name calling and opinions, that is where I think you could get yourself in trouble - it is all documented and can be used against you...believe me - I have no motive other than not wanting to see your already bad situation be made worse.....

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by SweetDaddyD

Good. I would hope so. Cause if they are going to ask for $10K, they better damn know well what they are doing. If they are have second thoughts about their work it would be nice for it not to enter the market. I wish whoever put out the Fujita would of had some second thoughts on it before I spent a $240 to make a permanent $50K check engine light, and that was only $240.

yeah but do you think you are only going to selectively discourage some of them? I do agree with you though - it is amazing some of the stuff that has been marketed to us that is not ready for prime time - what about exhausts that burn through the diffuser???

[pianomaniac]

I'm sorry for your problems but,

Nobody twisted your arm to purchase from Hass. Accept responsibility for your decision. Buyer beware! This ranting is getting you NOWHERE!

We aren't going to work this our FOR YOU. Go to the source and solve your own problem. You don't own nor should you control this forum. Grow up and learn how to deal with life's problems on your own in a mature and effective manner.

[waydui]

Originally Posted by scottyb

A note to the moderators. Everything stated is well documented in my Hass turbo experience thread. What cannot be found there had been backed up by fellow members in the original thread. I think it would be a huge disservice to the community to remove this thread once again.

Actually, I think removing this thread would be a HUGE SERVICE to the Elise Talk community.

What clearly started out as a informational warning to potential purchasers of Hass products has now turned into a personal vendetta, pitting the two of you against each other.

If there is one thing I hate about our current social "culture", it is the relentless attention to personal issues and disputes that ultimately rise to the level of public debate and discourse which ensnare and fascinate people for some unfathomable reason, when in fact, they neither matter or impact me or the vast majority of the public.

Settle your problems as best you can. Do I appreciate the information about your bad experience with a vendor? Absolutely. I am now forewarned and better informed. Thank you for that. Do I want to be a witness to the savaging of the parties involved, no matter who's right? No thank you, I'll pass on that.

Wayne

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by ivan1

what about exhausts that burn through the diffuser???

ivan i am in the market for a new exhaust, if you could elaborate which one(s) burnt through the diffuser i would appreciate it very much.......... PM me if you dont want to post it, thats fine by me since i am asking you directly and not wanting to put you on the spot so to speak, i just like my diffuser, thats all
thanks
josh.

[slope]

Hey i for one appreciate what scotty's done, since i seriously considered getting the hass turbo. i thinki i'd be frustrated as **** too if i had to screw around with my car for 6 months to try and get it to run right. until someone can step up and say that their kit has been running fine then it looks as if forcedfed or tri point will be getting my money.

[ivan1]

sent you a pm but it is searchable - it was an issue related to the installation and the heat shield rubbing as I recall - can be avoided, but several people developed holes in their diffuser