Lotus CrAsH ! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Lotus CrAsH !

Location : West Mercia, UK, Earth





More pictures here:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/378868...-car-pictures/


“As I got out I realised the car was in mid-air. The Lotus had gone completely under my car and my car’s back wheels where in the Lotus’ windscreen.
“The [Lotus] driver managed to get out and he was pretty shaken up.
“He said he’d only just bought the car from brand new minutes before. He said he’d part-exchanged a soft-top. If he’d gone into the back of me with that [soft top] he’d have been killed.”

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 02:32 PM
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Actually no, as you can see, the hard top did not save anyone

when you stand on the brakes especially in a FWD car, all the weight is off the rear wheels
When the car behind you also stands on the brakes[diving low] but a bit late, they will run under your car

Saw it happen on my former city commute

low speed crash

if it was a normal steel car it would have driven home
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 03:38 PM
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The Dacia driver (Paul) said, “My car is probably a write-off."

That minivan looks to be in perfect condition.
The Elise provided a nice crumple zone for the
Dacia.

2006 Elise ST (someone else has it now . . . )
2008 Exige S240 ST
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 03:45 PM
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I had completely forgotten about this, but I saw a very similar accident when I was in England in 2010. Didn't get a good picture because I saw it last minute:

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"Lots Of Trouble; Usually Serious"
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-14-2017, 04:50 PM
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Glad the driver was okay!

Reminds me of this crash in Southern CA that occurred years ago.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 11:29 AM
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oh, damn!

** save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp ** EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs)

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WTC 2
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
Actually no, as you can see, the hard top did not save anyone
He said that because the car came with a softtop, that traded for a hardtop, or he just put the hard top on. If he had the softtop on during the crash, the windshield would have collapsed into the cabin area. Possibly increasing injuries.

I like the other pictures, people posted, above, of lotus submarines! lol

.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Coughy View Post
He said that because the car came with a softtop, that traded for a hardtop, or he just put the hard top on. If he had the softtop on during the crash, the windshield would have collapsed into the cabin area. Possibly increasing injuries.
The hard top is not structural. The windscreen held up because of the windscreen frame - having the hard top on wouldn't have made any difference. The Elise is a tough little car


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I like the other pictures, people posted, above, of lotus submarines! lol

.
That is funny
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 03:33 PM
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exactly, if the hardtop makes you feel better......
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedo View Post
The hard top is not structural.
I think this statement is too vague to clearly address the role a hardtop would play in protecting the passenger cabin.

The Elise was delivered with a soft top in Federalized form, so what ever safety and structural features are required - such as rollover protection - were met by that set of components. That fact, however, does not render the fiberglass roof devoid of any strength.

The convex shape of the roof (as viewed from the outside) and the rib formed by a central longitudinal depression both contribute to stiffness and would allow the roof to resist substantial aft compression. For example, the roof could be compressed when external force tried to collapse the windshield frame aft. My own SWAG, with absolutely no data to back it up, is that the roof and its mounting points could easily withstand 300 - 400 pounds (136 - 181 kgs) of longitudinal compression. This value would drop precipitously if a significant force were able to simultaneously collapse the roof downwards into the car. Another SWAG ... the roof should be able to easily support the weight of an average American male (195 pounds / 88 kgs) evenly distributed across the area. The weakest point in the whole system is probably the front pins, which would likely be the first to fail in longitudinal compression.

So the car meets certification standards without a fiberglass roof, but to to say the roof has no structural value is false. If you'd like to quantify the roof system compression strength more accurately, please feel free to test a roof to destruction and report back to everyone.

Glen

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:18 PM
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the hardtop is not structural

the soft top could likely hold a significant amount of weight but it does not matter

the broken glass is holding the van up

in this situation the results would be identical
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
the hardtop is not structural
Repeating something that is false doesn't make it true, despite the example of our president and others of his ilk.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 04:22 AM
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oh brother

you posited something with weak reasoning and no proof

right back at you
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen View Post
I think this statement is too vague to clearly address the role a hardtop would play in protecting the passenger cabin.

The Elise was delivered with a soft top in Federalized form, so what ever safety and structural features are required - such as rollover protection - were met by that set of components. That fact, however, does not render the fiberglass roof devoid of any strength.
Glen you are correct and I accept your point that the hard top does add value. My comment was in response to the comment "If he had the softtop on during the crash, the windshield would have collapsed into the cabin area" which is untrue.

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...
The weakest point in the whole system is probably the front pins, which would likely be the first to fail in longitudinal compression.
...
I'm not sure on that. The photos I have seen where the hard top has moved during an accident all seem to show it detaching at the back. That said I'm not planning to test it any time soon (and I never had a hard top anyway when I had my Elise)!!
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
oh brother

you posited something with weak reasoning and no proof
Hardly.

The statement "...the hard top is not structural..." is demonstrably false. Since the roof doesn't collapse under it's own weight when standing on end (you can try this for yourself), the roof has a compression strength at least greater than its own weight. With a hard top installed, any amount of compression strength provides additional reinforcement of the windshield frame resisting inward collapse. This reinforcement provides a higher level of protection of the passenger cabin (easily proven with simple vector analysis).

I continue to make no statement regarding the role of the hard top in the crash because it is nearly impossible to render an intelligent opinion. The photographs only show the relative positions of the vehicles at an unknown time after the crash. We don't know if they were moved before the photo or if the vehicles rebounded from a different position during the crash. It would take extensive experimentation with a lot of instrumentation to describe the forces involved and how different roof systems would affect the outcome.

In my world, if you survive a crash like the one in this thread, you are

- likely to be a little traumatized
- have license to speculate about why you survived

Everyone else should stick to the facts and avoid making demonstrably false statements or clearly label speculation as just that.

Glen
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 06:59 AM
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Many (and I think most) hard top systems lack the additional hold down clamp that Lotus included on later roof systems like my 2011. So any testing would have to include the several different roof mounting systems implemented by Lotus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedo View Post
I'm not sure on that. The photos I have seen where the hard top has moved during an accident all seem to show it detaching at the back.
I'm not sure on that either and I hope to avoid ever testing this characteristic!

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 08:06 AM
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Lotus CrAsH !
I totally contracted AIDS reading your thread title...

At least I'm now 100% convinced you're a spam bot created with somewhat human AI characteristics but only with the purpose of posting threads about damaged Lotus cars & people dying.


I've come to this conclusion by having a team from MIT do extensive research on email spam titles... here take a look at what they found...




this image was a capture traced from your IP of sent emails from Jan 27th of this year. As you can see, many of the titles are identical to threads you have posted here, but with different words & aliases.

it took a long time to narrow this down, but I feel my work & the effort of the team from MIT has payed off.
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'05 ST Elise: DHP exhaust, Quantum Zero's, Forge MS radiator, s111 v3 eliminator, s111 DSbrace, ce28n...

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-17-2017, 08:38 AM
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Lol^^

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Wrangler Sahara
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedo View Post
The hard top is not structural.
With all due respect, BULL SHHHHHHT it isnt structural.

2 pins, and 2 screws hold it in place, and a fiberglass piece aligns the roof to the windshield with 5 screws. It ABSOLUTELY helped this driver avoid injury, NO QUESTION. You must not own an elige to say something like that. INSANITY

-chatbot
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-20-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Coughy View Post
With all due respect, BULL SHHHHHHT it isnt structural.

2 pins, and 2 screws hold it in place, and a fiberglass piece aligns the roof to the windshield with 5 screws. It ABSOLUTELY helped this driver avoid injury, NO QUESTION. You must not own an elige to say something like that. INSANITY

-chatbot
Believe what you like. The windscreen surround is structural and can support the weight of the car. I'm sure that the hard top contributes something... but it isn't critical.

As for my Elise ownership - plenty of photos of it on the forum. MY02 111S (no hard top) in gunmetal grey. Do you own an Elise???
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