Need Help LSD question

[Stephen@EcLotus]

Guys and Gals,
I have a customer that is interested in an Exige S that has a Track pack and Touring Pack with traction control. He is very much interested in the LSD which our car does not have. What are the Pros and Cons of a car with LSD versus a car without LSD? Is the traction control enough to offset the lack of an LSD?

I apologize for not searching due to time constraints and am sure this subject has been discussed before. Thank you in advance for answering my question.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Vampyre]

Lots of threads on this....

But...to me having an LSD was a must, I guess it depends on the use for the car....

Autox / Track = LSD

Daily driver = not needed

It can be added also...

[JohnZ]

My opinion:

Good to have for Auto X.
Not needed for track.

[CosmosMpower]

Depends on what he's using it for. Shouldn't you sales guys know the product you sell better than the consumers?

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Depends on what he's using it for. Shouldn't you sales guys know the product you sell better than the consumers?

I think that's what he's trying to do by coming here. The answer to that question isn't simple and well-qualified people on here disagree with each other.

The consensus, to the extent that there is one, seems to be:

If you are, or plan to be, very competitive in autocross, it is almost a must.

If you are in autocross for fun, it might be helpful, but not necessary.

If you plan to track the car, there is no consensus. Probably depends on the track and the driver skills. On very tight corners with a very good driver, you may get a bit of inside rear wheel spin. Most people don't consider it a requirement, including the Lotus engineers.

On the street, it generally, does not provide any significant benefit, but that depends on your driving conditions. If you use it as an all-year daily driver in the northeast, with chains, it's probably a great thing to have.

YMMV.

[Scott Bowman]

Originally Posted by ChrisB

I think that's what he's trying to do by coming here. The answer to that question isn't simple and well-qualified people on here disagree with each other.

The consensus, to the extent that there is one, seems to be:

If you are, or plan to be, very competitive in autocross, it is almost a must.

If you are in autocross for fun, it might be helpful, but not necessary.

If you plan to track the car, there is no consensus. Probably depends on the track and the driver skills. On very tight corners with a very good driver, you may get a bit of inside rear wheel spin. Most people don't consider it a requirement, including the Lotus engineers.

On the street, it generally, does not provide any significant benefit, but that depends on your driving conditions. If you use it as an all-year daily driver in the northeast, with chains, it's probably a great thing to have.

YMMV.

I was starting to prepare a reply, but ChrisB had done a great job of summarizing a lot of discussion on the topic; I agree with his summary.

On your other question about whether the traction control would offset the benefits of the LSD, I'd say no. Since I ordered the LSD with my car, it came with traction control. The only times I use the traction control is (1) when I forget to turn it off, and (2) autocrossing in wet conditions when it helps modulate the traction. The new variable T/C on the newer cars does sound worthwhile, however.

[zevil]

maybe check this out how differential works first

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

Vampyre already give a quick summary on previous postssss people been discussed.

[fpitas]

It can be added later, but it's not easy. Something like 10 hours labor.

[Patricko]

Originally Posted by ChrisB

If you plan to track the car, there is no consensus. Probably depends on the track and the driver skills. On very tight corners with a very good driver, you may get a bit of inside rear wheel spin. Most people don't consider it a requirement, including the Lotus engineers.

The party line from Lotus is that it is a bad thing for the track as it slows down the turn in on the car and makes it more prone to understeer.

My 2-Eleven does not have a LSD and LSD is not even an option on the 2-Eleven

[Rat27]

The group has done a good job of describing the pros and cons but I would also add that for street driving the Torsen type LSD tends to make these cars wander slightly with surface irregularities. It feels like there is some toe out on the front end, but it's actually just the lsd switching from side to side.

[BrendanDolan]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Depends on what he's using it for. Shouldn't you sales guys know the product you sell better than the consumers?

As true as that should be, I applaud him for taking the time to learn rather than spouting a line of BS like most salesmen would.

[Stephen@EcLotus]

I really appreciate the help. I've only been associated with these cars for about two months and I will be the first to tell you I have a lot to learn about the car and culture. I'd much rather have a good understanding of what is best for my customer as I have neither tracked or autocrossed the car with or without an LSD. I will relay all this great information to my customer. We have been discussing several scenarios about possibly putting one on and I will know more tomorrow when I touch base with him.

Again I really do apprecite it and I look forward to knowing some of you better as I get more acquainted with the vehicle.

Cheers!!

[Vampyre]

Originally Posted by Rat27

....but I would also add that for street driving the Torsen type LSD tends to make these cars wander slightly with surface irregularities. It feels like there is some toe out on the front end, but it's actually just the lsd switching from side to side.

Never had that happen or that feeling.....

anyone else with an LSD have this happen?

According to this... nothing like that happens either....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by Vampyre

Never had that happen or that feeling.....

anyone else with an LSD have this happen?

No. My Elise doesn't. My Integra also has the Torsen LSD, and it does not do that.

[Rat27]

I've driven several Elises and Exiges with LSD and all of them exhibited this tendency. It's not an LSD thing, it's an LSD and Lotus thing. I thought the first car I drove was out of alignment so I had it checked. It was spot on. I told the guys from Hethel (Nick Adams and Matt Becker) about it and they said "Was it an LSD car?" They knew immediately what it was. It is subtle but it is there, particularly on uneven pavement on the interstate.

The Elise is very different from other cars in that the steering and suspension are very precise and little things that are covered up in other cars are not in these cars.

Not a reason not to get the LSD just another factor to consider.

[Vampyre]

never heard of that...

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by Vampyre

never heard of that...

It's like the Princess and the Pea.

[RichS]

Stephen,

+ 1000 points for 'going to the source' to find an answer for your (potential) customer's question. WAY too many folks in your position totally make something up on the spot.

- 5 for not using search, but I can understand asking the question again as there are so many threads out there that it would have taken quite a while figure out what ChrisB said so well.

So overall, + 995 points.

Maybe it would make sense to change the thread from 'Need Help LSD question' to 'LSD Question Answered'.

[Vampyre]

Originally Posted by fpitas

It's like the Princess and the Pea.

hehehe, I have to agree!

[Stephen@EcLotus]

I delivered the car yesterday to my customer who drove from Ohio to pick it up. He is a real nice guy and should be posting something on Elise Talk in the very near future. I want to take this time to thank you all again for your prompt help and insight.