New Engine Break In - Drive it like you stole it?! - LotusTalk

kartvader · 01-09-2007, 10:22 AM

I was wondering if any Elise/Exige owners have broken in their engines using the "Drive It Like You Stole It" or "Break it in they way you're going to race it" method. I'm interested in the results of this break in procedure.

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I think this break in procedure is fairly common in the motorcycle world. I wonder why it's not as common in the world of street cars.

kestrel74 · 01-09-2007, 10:34 AM

By the book. I would say a vast majority follow it.

Irishfan04 · 01-09-2007, 10:53 AM

I tried it with my now-2-month-old IS350. I figured since it has something like a 6-year warranty, may as well see if the theory holds, so I gave the article advice a try.

After meeting up with other people with the same car, mine is a liiiiiittle bit faster across the board. YMMV.

RepsolRoss · 01-09-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishfan04

I tried it with my now-2-month-old IS350. I figured since it has something like a 6-year warranty, may as well see if the theory holds, so I gave the article advice a try.

After meeting up with other people with the same car, mine is a liiiiiittle bit faster across the board. YMMV.

I have to agree with you. The new cars that I have bought have all been broken in 'hard', mainly driven how I would drive them if they weren't new. Same here, each one was a liiiiittle bit faster than others who babied them. I agree with the article and other similar schools of thought, after a few heat cycles the motor and its parts are 'broken in'.

kartvader · 01-09-2007, 11:41 AM

Interesting results so far.

delise · 01-09-2007, 12:22 PM

I am not sure if Lotus does this but I know Dodge does. From the factory they have a very thick sludge like break in oil. This is to help gather and move any shavings , loose metal flakes, etc and move them through the filter and to ease the wear and tear of the newly fitted parts. After the break in a normal lighter oil is used. Something to think about, do you want to be winding really high revs on a tiny engine with really thick heavy oil ? (that is IF Lotus does that )

milcher · 01-09-2007, 12:45 PM

I think Mototune's break-in procedure applies to engines with very hard-coated cylinder walls, such as nikasil (used in many motorcycle engines) and the MMC material used in the 2ZZ Toyota engine. It also applies to engines with primarily plain bearings (that don't need break in time) and not to engines with ball bearings (which do break in a bit with use).

I've used variations of this break-in procedure on all the motorcycle engines I've built over the past few years with great success. I also used a similar break-in procedure on my Lotus, with no problems.

LBC111 · 01-09-2007, 01:24 PM

"Hard" break-in esp in the first 100 miles (high revs followed by rapid deceleration after warming engine), then fairly aggressive street driving, with a lot of variable revving throughout the full range the rest of the way...

Remember, even the most aggressive on-street break-in is WAY below what this car is capable of on the track, which I believe, is what Lotus is concerned about. I.e., no "racing", or continuous high rpms during break-in.

Rich · 01-09-2007, 02:03 PM

I've been away from the site for a while, but I'm shocked that no one has talked about the ECU download at the first service. Has Lotus eased up on the claims that they would invalidate anyone's warranty who break a car in hard? Has the manual changed?

milcher · 01-09-2007, 02:36 PM

According to my 1000 mile data dump, the warranty on my Elise was not made invalid. The percentage of time at 100% throttle was not questioned:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...45&postcount=1

Mototune's break-in procedure is not a high-load break-in (lugging the engine). During the break-in of my Elise, the full-throttle time was done in the upper regions of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears when the engine was pulling freely. Full on flogging the engine or performing a dozen standing starts is not a good way to break-in a motor, I'm sure either would have gotten the warranty invalidated.

Slade · 01-09-2007, 02:55 PM

I remember reading that Yamaha had a part in designing our engine - does anyone know what there involvement was? I couldn't find it in a search of the forum...

kartvader · 01-09-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milcher

I think Mototune's break-in procedure applies to engines with very hard-coated cylinder walls, such as nikasil (used in many motorcycle engines) and the MMC material used in the 2ZZ Toyota engine. It also applies to engines with primarily plain bearings (that don't need break in time) and not to engines with ball bearings (which do break in a bit with use).

I've used variations of this break-in procedure on all the motorcycle engines I've built over the past few years with great success. I also used a similar break-in procedure on my Lotus, with no problems.

Did you change the oil after the hard break in and before the 1000 miles were up?

qball · 01-09-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade

I remember reading that Yamaha had a part in designing our engine - does anyone know what there involvement was? I couldn't find it in a search of the forum...

The engine is a Toyota engine built by Yamaha...

goelise · 01-09-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qball

The engine is a Toyota engine built by Yamaha...

Yamaha has been involved with Toyota since the 1970s. It is primarily the head design that Yamaha focused on. It makes sense since Yamaha specializes in getting power out of small engines (think motorcycles). Toyota regularly has contracted this type of work out to Yamaha, the 2 companies have a history together.

This is not the first time Yamaha has designed a head for Toyota, they have done it on the 18RG engine. A nostalgic favorite of classic Toyota fans. Designed in 1968, it was a 2 liter 4 cyl. Hemi cross-flow DOHC Yamaha aluminum head. Using shims and buckets, no rockers to open/close the valves. It had a 80mm stroke with 88.5 mm stcok bore, It could be bored out to 92mm. I used to own one and it was a great engine for it's time. It made a solid 150hp.

wrh3 · 01-09-2007, 03:49 PM

I have driven every car I ever bought like I drive it every day from the 1st day forward and none have ever burned oil or had any issues. I had a friend in high school who built hi-performance motors ($10k-$30k motors 20 years ago) and his advice was the same for fresh rebuilds- drive it like you want to drive it every day from day 1.

Vishus_1 · 01-09-2007, 05:42 PM

ok - I just read this artical and it looks like it is intended more for Motorcycles but I see it says cars too.

I have 90 miles (yes that is nine and a zero) on my car. Have I already missed the window to seat the rings? This artical claims I only have 20 miles to do this in and then I should change the oil???

Is this right???

kartvader · 01-09-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vishus_1

ok - I just read this artical and it looks like it is intended more for Motorcycles but I see it says cars too.

I have 90 miles (yes that is nine and a zero) on my car. Have I already missed the window to seat the rings? This artical claims I only have 20 miles to do this in and then I should change the oil???

Is this right???

I just talked with the dealer today and they told me that the oil in new cars is a "break in fluid". I asked if I could change it and they told me that Lotus requires that the dealer do the first oil change on the 1000 mile service. This is required to validate the warranty. Hopefully others will respond with more information on their experiences.

Vishus_1 · 01-09-2007, 06:03 PM

Yeah - I am thinking the 20 mile oil change statement must be intended for Motorcycles.

But is this true about only having 20 miles to seat the rings properly?

SimonMExS · 01-09-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartvader

I just talked with the dealer today and they told me that the oil in new cars is a "break in fluid". I asked if I could change it and they told me that Lotus requires that the dealer do the first oil change on the 1000 mile service. This is required to validate the warranty. Hopefully others will respond with more information on their experiences.

Hi,
From what I understand, it is actually a 'mineral oil' which is supposed to be good for break-in but not for high revs. The use of this 'mineral oil' seems somewhat contrary to the idea of a hard break-in.

pete k · 01-09-2007, 06:59 PM

I think Lotus uses mineral oil because it is not as slippery as synthetic, and will help the rings seat. OR Lotus is just too cheap to use synthetic from the start.

On the Redline Oil bottle it says not to use until the car has 3000 miles on it. I guess Redline is pretty slippery.

Personally I do not think it makes any difference how you break in an engine. They are all built to very exact tolerances, and made to last. I have not heard of any modern engine using oil because the rings did not seat.

01-09-2007, 10:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
kartvader My other cars are karts! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 794	New Engine Break In - Drive it like you stole it?! I was wondering if any Elise/Exige owners have broken in their engines using the "Drive It Like You Stole It" or "Break it in they way you're going to race it" method. I'm interested in the results of this break in procedure. http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm I think this break in procedure is fairly common in the motorcycle world. I wonder why it's not as common in the world of street cars. __________________ 2007 Chrome Orange Lotus Exige S \| 2007 Birel M31 IAME Leopard 125cc TAG \| 2006 CRG DarkRider Rotax DD2 \| http://www.chicagoracers.com

01-09-2007, 10:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
kestrel74 G-200 Driver Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North of Detroit; Watkins Glen, NY Posts: 7,310	By the book. I would say a vast majority follow it. __________________ 74 Europa Zetec TC Special 3614R Elise #2292 / Chrome Orange !! / Starshield / Sachs suspension / RTDbrace / Uprights machined / Down Low rails / ... "My daily driver does .85 Mach" " I started flying when Sex was safe and Hang Gliding was dangerous " BUY My Europa ! http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...pa-sale-43829/

01-09-2007, 11:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
kartvader My other cars are karts! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 794	Interesting results so far. __________________ 2007 Chrome Orange Lotus Exige S \| 2007 Birel M31 IAME Leopard 125cc TAG \| 2006 CRG DarkRider Rotax DD2 \| http://www.chicagoracers.com

01-09-2007, 12:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
delise 2005 Ardent Red, Touring Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Beverly Hills Posts: 2,153	I am not sure if Lotus does this but I know Dodge does. From the factory they have a very thick sludge like break in oil. This is to help gather and move any shavings , loose metal flakes, etc and move them through the filter and to ease the wear and tear of the newly fitted parts. After the break in a normal lighter oil is used. Something to think about, do you want to be winding really high revs on a tiny engine with really thick heavy oil ? (that is IF Lotus does that ) Last edited by delise : 01-09-2007 at 12:48 PM.

01-09-2007, 12:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
milcher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 336	I think Mototune's break-in procedure applies to engines with very hard-coated cylinder walls, such as nikasil (used in many motorcycle engines) and the MMC material used in the 2ZZ Toyota engine. It also applies to engines with primarily plain bearings (that don't need break in time) and not to engines with ball bearings (which do break in a bit with use). I've used variations of this break-in procedure on all the motorcycle engines I've built over the past few years with great success. I also used a similar break-in procedure on my Lotus, with no problems. __________________ Gary M Gilbert, AZ ---------------- '05 Elise Ardent Red/Biscuit Braille Battery, Moroso Oil Pan, MWR Light Weight Flywheel, ACT HD Clutch, Toyota LSD, US Celica 6th Gear, FF Street Header, FF Hi-Flow Cat, QS Exhaust.

01-09-2007, 10:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
Irishfan04 Bunny Carpooler Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago and/or surrounding suburbs Posts: 1,418 Images: 1	I tried it with my now-2-month-old IS350. I figured since it has something like a 6-year warranty, may as well see if the theory holds, so I gave the article advice a try. After meeting up with other people with the same car, mine is a liiiiiittle bit faster across the board. YMMV.

01-09-2007, 01:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
LBC111 Dan D Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 1,303	"Hard" break-in esp in the first 100 miles (high revs followed by rapid deceleration after warming engine), then fairly aggressive street driving, with a lot of variable revving throughout the full range the rest of the way... Remember, even the most aggressive on-street break-in is WAY below what this car is capable of on the track, which I believe, is what Lotus is concerned about. I.e., no "racing", or continuous high rpms during break-in. __________________ 07 Exige S: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, W2A IC to come??, 1965 lbs total weight (est) 05 Elise: Storm Titanium, Sport, Touring, Stage II (SOLD) (May '05 - Sept '06)

01-09-2007, 02:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Rich Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 333	I've been away from the site for a while, but I'm shocked that no one has talked about the ECU download at the first service. Has Lotus eased up on the claims that they would invalidate anyone's warranty who break a car in hard? Has the manual changed?

01-09-2007, 02:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
milcher Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 336	According to my 1000 mile data dump, the warranty on my Elise was not made invalid. The percentage of time at 100% throttle was not questioned: http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...45&postcount=1 Mototune's break-in procedure is not a high-load break-in (lugging the engine). During the break-in of my Elise, the full-throttle time was done in the upper regions of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears when the engine was pulling freely. Full on flogging the engine or performing a dozen standing starts is not a good way to break-in a motor, I'm sure either would have gotten the warranty invalidated. __________________ Gary M Gilbert, AZ ---------------- '05 Elise Ardent Red/Biscuit Braille Battery, Moroso Oil Pan, MWR Light Weight Flywheel, ACT HD Clutch, Toyota LSD, US Celica 6th Gear, FF Street Header, FF Hi-Flow Cat, QS Exhaust.

01-09-2007, 02:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Slade 1 Nationals trip-1 trophy Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 470	I remember reading that Yamaha had a part in designing our engine - does anyone know what there involvement was? I couldn't find it in a search of the forum... __________________ 2005 elise - yellow, sport/hard top, quicksilver, k&n, ssr, blackwatch sway bar, black stripes 1999 yellow yamaha R1 (no longer daily driver) 1999 volvo v70xc (kid hauler) 1967 vw bus, walkthrough: 1966 vw bus : 1963 vw double cab daily driver --> Bianchi Pista

01-09-2007, 03:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
wrh3 Car Guy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 1,044	I have driven every car I ever bought like I drive it every day from the 1st day forward and none have ever burned oil or had any issues. I had a friend in high school who built hi-performance motors ($10k-$30k motors 20 years ago) and his advice was the same for fresh rebuilds- drive it like you want to drive it every day from day 1. __________________ Bill '07 BMW M Coupe, '05 Lotus Elise (Traded) www.billswebspace.com/lotus www.syntheticfirst.com

01-09-2007, 05:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
Vishus_1 Super charged! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 524 Images: 19	ok - I just read this artical and it looks like it is intended more for Motorcycles but I see it says cars too. I have 90 miles (yes that is nine and a zero) on my car. Have I already missed the window to seat the rings? This artical claims I only have 20 miles to do this in and then I should change the oil??? Is this right???

01-09-2007, 06:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
Vishus_1 Super charged! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 524 Images: 19	Yeah - I am thinking the 20 mile oil change statement must be intended for Motorcycles. But is this true about only having 20 miles to seat the rings properly?

01-09-2007, 06:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
pete k Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 595	I think Lotus uses mineral oil because it is not as slippery as synthetic, and will help the rings seat. OR Lotus is just too cheap to use synthetic from the start. On the Redline Oil bottle it says not to use until the car has 3000 miles on it. I guess Redline is pretty slippery. Personally I do not think it makes any difference how you break in an engine. They are all built to very exact tolerances, and made to last. I have not heard of any modern engine using oil because the rings did not seat.

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