Ramifications of Lotus potentially going under? - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2012, 05:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
4380r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,450
Images: 8
A factor is that right now, most Elige owners use their cars with some frequency. Some daily, many just on weekends but folks pile up miles on weekends. Many are tracked, many more autocrossed.

In other words they are being used.

Once the mother company goes away, that daily utility takes on a different aspect. Dealerships go away, so no factory support of any kind. People will have to either to the wrenching themselves (many do, but at different levels) or find reliable local mechanics. Doable, but not so easily. The wrenchers here don't see that as an issue, they just say "it's the easiest car I've ever owned to work on." They see it that way because working on the cars is part of the ownership aspect they enjoy.

Many others don't want that. They want to own and enjoy driving the car, but not working on them.

I've heard some wrenchers say: "This is a hobbyist car, someone who can't or won't work on it shouldn't own it."

Fair enough, but that will shrink the pool of would be buyers, thereby impacting that resale value everyone seems so concerned about.

Many of those in the market now would shy away with having to deal with owning/maintaining an orphan car like the Elige.

Current owners might use the cars less, and they may take on more of the status that MG's, Triumphs, etc have taken on over the years. Most stay in the garage and show up at British Car Days, and very few enthusiasts still autocross or vintage race them.
__________________
Have owned, enjoyed, appreciated, and now all gone:
1969 Europa S2 Blue
1970 Europa S2 White (my first)
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special Light Blue
1974 Europa Twin Cam Special #4380R Indigo Blue (my absolute favorite).
1984 Turbo Esprit Calypso Red
2005 Elise Starlight Black
2005 Elise Saffron Yellow
2005 Elise Ardent Red (used as development mule for the LETSLA)
2006 Exige Graphite Grey
2007 Exige S Canyon Red (first customer installation for the production LETSLA)
4380r is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-10-2012, 05:41 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DeanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,790
The trouble is that Lotus cars are with a few exceptions too inexpensive. If they went for Ferrari money and it took Ferrari money to keep them running there would be many suppliers and specialty shops.

If Lotus went under I would expect to see a few specialty shops open to serve the hobbyist. The Elise/Exige would follow the path of the Esprit, M100, Europa, Elan... for parts and repair. The Evora is more complicated. With fewer sold there might be problems sourcing some of the parts.

At the opposite extreme there is the immortal Lotus Seven. There are more "Lotus" Sevens, VI, Type 11, Type 23... than were ever built by Lotus. Now a minor rant; Someday maybe the majority of Caterham, Birkin, Westfield... owners will be proud of their marques - take off their Lotus badging and put the appropriate badges on their cars.
DeanG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 05:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 284
Garage
Not sure if this is positive or negative, but it is "news": Lotus Esprit all but ready to go, but held back by management issues

If the Esprit truly is priced at Carrera 4S Convertible levels ($117K i believe), I think there would be a huge amount of interest. That said, with a fully loaded Evora S in the low 90s, that doesn't seem to make much sense. Either the Evora S has to come down in price, or the Esprit has to move up. Otherwise, at least in my opinion, the Evora becomes unsellable at current MSRP pricepoints (why spend 90K on a 3.5L V6 w/ 350hp when you can spend a little more, 117K on a 5L V8 w/ 650hp?).
texevora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 05:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Snake Eyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncitrdude View Post
Not sure if this is positive or negative, but it is "news": Lotus Esprit all but ready to go, but held back by management issues

If the Esprit truly is priced at Carrera 4S Convertible levels ($117K i believe), I think there would be a huge amount of interest. That said, with a fully loaded Evora S in the low 90s, that doesn't seem to make much sense. Either the Evora S has to come down in price, or the Esprit has to move up. Otherwise, at least in my opinion, the Evora becomes unsellable at current MSRP pricepoints (why spend 90K on a 3.5L V6 w/ 350hp when you can spend a little more, 117K on a 5L V8 w/ 650hp?).
Facts are wrong on the porsches. The new 991 Carreras s run 130k with options. That's where you get the difference.
Snake Eyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
vincesf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 598
Images: 3
Short range: Difficult to obtain parts at a reasonable price, spotty service by people claiming they know how to service the car, including some of the do it yourselfers...

Medium range: Renewed interest in past models (ala Elan, Europa, Esprit., etc.).

Long range: The Elise/Exige should elevate to cult status. This does not equate to valuable, but rather respected and appreciated by driving enthusiasts.

vincesf
vincesf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 284
Garage
where would that leave the Evora? Elevated to cult status like the Elige, or discounted in the minds of enthusiasts for not being as "pure" to the Lotus ideals?

While the Elise/Exige are probably the "purest" of modern Lotus cars in my mind, there have been less than 800 Evoras shipped to the US since it began production. I don't know production #s for the Eliges, but I would have to imagine it's well north of 800.
texevora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Butters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I am most concerned about one off lotus specific parts like the throttle body and ECU. The rest seem to be off the shelf Toyota stuff or common or consumable parts where there is already an aftermarket. I mean maybe you won't be able to get the right clips or hoses with a lotus sticker on it, but I think they should be maintainable for decades.
Yup, just like billsaidso said (ha), the throttle body is a Toyota part, it comes off a 2005 Celica GT-S. The only difference is if you buy it from Lotus, they tack on an extra $900 or so. The ECU, I'm not sure if a programmable Toyota unit even exists to replace it, but you can always do a standalone (I think you'd compromise on cold weather starting/idling from what I hear).

I think if someone is going to be really hardcore about it, most everything on the car is replaceable in the aftermarket. Decades from now (and hell, even now) people will fab up a rear subframe for the engine, swap in a new engine, all new wiring, new trans, new wheels, new clams, etc. Not sure if someone is willing to hang their neck on the line and make replacement front crash structures, but I'm sure some nutter will. In fact, I think the only thing someone won't be able to replicate if/when Lotus only exists in the history books is the extruded and bonded aluminum chassis. If that goes, there's no straightening or repairing it so then you're looking at finding a replacement car. And in the year 2065, that may be a tall order.

But who knows, maybe in 50 years time we'll all be able to visit the local shop where they'll 3D print an aluminum chassis for us in a matter of hours.
__________________
2006 ASPEN WHITE EXIGE Supercharged Honda K24A2 transplant currently stuck in project car hell.
Butters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
vincesf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 598
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncitrdude View Post
where would that leave the Evora? Elevated to cult status like the Elige, or discounted in the minds of enthusiasts for not being as "pure" to the Lotus ideals?

While the Elise/Exige are probably the "purest" of modern Lotus cars in my mind, there have been less than 800 Evoras shipped to the US since it began production. I don't know production #s for the Eliges, but I would have to imagine it's well north of 800.
Let me give you two extreme views using low production number Lotus models of the past :

One extreme is that it could be remembered like the '74 to '82 Eclat, the other extreme like the Esprit. Personally I believe the Evora is too good a car to be remembered like the Eclat, and will most likely be revered somewhere closer to the Esprit. As for rarity, low production numbers cut both ways, and did not do much for the rarer Eclat. In comparing to the Elige, there are many threads that have dealt with this one, and the Evora is all around a more complete package, but IMHO when cars start driving themselves, enthusiasts will look back at the minimalistic Elige and say: "Here is a car that should be on your bucket list to "drive".

vincesf

vincesf

Last edited by vincesf; 11-26-2012 at 01:27 PM.
vincesf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
David Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,672
ncitrdude,

There were about 5000 Eliges sold in the US.

I've had my 2009 Elise (in Canada) for 3 years now. I've read about the turmoil surrounding Lotus but somehow it doesn't bother me. I enjoy the car a lot and mine has been extremely reliable. Even if Lotus disappears I think my car should last 10 years without problem.

If right now I were in the market for a new car then I think I would buy an Evora. I love the uniqueness of the Lotus brand.

Based on the original post that you have been a long-term Lotus lover, I think you would have fun buying a Lotus even if the company disappeared.
__________________
2009 Saffron Elise
1986 Toyota Tercel - RIP Oct 20/2012
David Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 284
Garage
Yep, for sure i have no doubt i would enjoy owning/driving a Lotus, haha.

Just don't want to get caught spending a large sum of money on my dream car only to be stuck with rudimentary repairs costing 5-10x what they normally should (or just as bad, having it be out of commission for an extended period of time due to delays in getting suitable parts).

I guess at the end of the day I'll just have to either pull the trigger and hope for the best, or hopefully some good news comes out of Lotus before year-end to assuage my fears...
texevora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 01:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
vincesf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 598
Images: 3
I may be delusional, but it is too early to say it's the end for Lotus.

vincesf
vincesf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 231
I am a 4x Lotus owner and certainly the thought of no manufacturer service is not a good one, at least they are fairly straight forward cars to work on with many toyota main parts. My guess is that Lotus will endure under some new entity as it has in the past--just too much history and "brand value". Life is short. What I know is that my Lotus Evora S 2012 is about the most fun and balanced car I have owned. I almost bought an RS5 instead, but so glad that despite the "challenges" I went with the Evora. It makes me happy every time I drive it. I also drove it to Vegas and back last weekend(about 12 hours) and it is very comfortable for a long drive. You get the feel and performance of the Elise with some comfort. Just remember, life is too short to drive any boring car!
__________________
2012 Evora S Black, 2012 Audi A7, 2011 Audi R8
Past:
08 Elise SC, 05 Elise, 99 Esprit V8, 97 Ferrari 355 spyder, 07 Audi RS4, 05 Audi S4, 03 Maserati Spyder
97 Porsche Boxster, 99 Porsche 996,
martinm1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 284
Garage
The latest take from Skiddmark:
DRB-Hicom Chairman confirms Lotus is 'not safe' and considers its disposal - SkiddMark

Hope he's wrong, but the author seems to be the most neutral observer of all the recent developments. I don't know if "disposal" implies selling (which would be the best option for Lotus at this juncture from a car owner perspective) or winding it down, which would obviously be terrible. Let's hope for the former.
texevora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 231
Sounds like they want out. Liquidation makes no sense, so my guess is someone will buy it cheap. Hopefully they will remain committed to producing new cars---we shall see.
__________________
2012 Evora S Black, 2012 Audi A7, 2011 Audi R8
Past:
08 Elise SC, 05 Elise, 99 Esprit V8, 97 Ferrari 355 spyder, 07 Audi RS4, 05 Audi S4, 03 Maserati Spyder
97 Porsche Boxster, 99 Porsche 996,
martinm1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 238
So we'll know by the end of this month according to that article.....
Lotustwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 10:44 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
brgelise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 3,560
Images: 11
It seems everyone is an expert with Lotus causing no end of BS in reporting. While at arms length, I still think (IMHO) that Kimi's win and placement in the manufacturers championship put Lotus back in the spotlight, if the marketing numbnuts know where to aim the light.
While tumultulous, maybe finally getting DRB-HICOM to let go of Lotus will be a very good thing. Hopefully some company lacking vehicle dynamics prowess is smart enough to pick them up. I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive. They make great appliances. Let's not spread more BS rumours at the very site that is supposed to sift through it.
__________________
11 Lotus Evora "S" Persian Blue, Grey/Black Suedetex/Leather
15 Range Rover Evoque 2dr Dynamic on order
11 BMW Xdrive35d, Vermillion Red w/Cinnamon Brown Leather
08 Isuzu Ascender Lux Flint Grey, Grey leather
brgelise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 12:11 PM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DeanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by brgelise View Post
It seems everyone is an expert with Lotus causing no end of BS in reporting. While at arms length, I still think (IMHO) that Kimi's win and placement in the manufacturers championship put Lotus back in the spotlight, if the marketing numbnuts know where to aim the light.
While tumultulous, maybe finally getting DRB-HICOM to let go of Lotus will be a very good thing. Hopefully some company lacking vehicle dynamics prowess is smart enough to pick them up. I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive. They make great appliances. Let's not spread more BS rumours at the very site that is supposed to sift through it.
+1
DeanG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Secret Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by brgelise View Post
I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive.
I'm guessing you haven't driven the FR-S?
__________________
2007 Exige S - Storm Titanium
1961 Austin Mini - restoration and turbo install in process
Secret Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Chimp View Post
I'm guessing you haven't driven the FR-S?
Test drove it. Not bad but really wasn't my cup of tea...... or make that, coffee

Lotus' future is dark. DRB-HICOM really doesn't care about wins, etc because from a financial standpoint, it isn't worth it to them.. They should just sell it to a company that sees its worth.

EDIT: I don't care though, I'm getting an Evora. If Lotus goes down, it'll still be serviceable with Toyota parts and other 3rd party stuff. It'll just become even more exclusive ---- 'exotic' and 'rare'......

Last edited by Lotustwn; 11-29-2012 at 02:03 AM.
Lotustwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 05:04 AM   #40 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ItsThaMonsta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,416
Didn't Lotus just make some type of deal with Honda?
__________________
America has always been defined by its excess. The Grand Canyon, professional sports contracts, Wendyís baconator, extra bacon! I myself have 18 Lamborghinis, and a Subaru station-wagon. And itís because of this excess that I have flourished. I implore you, please do not stop profiting. Live for excess, itís the American way.
ItsThaMonsta is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > General Discussion (Lotus related)



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.