Ramifications of Lotus potentially going under?

[lotusforsale]

A factor is that right now, most Elige owners use their cars with some frequency. Some daily, many just on weekends but folks pile up miles on weekends. Many are tracked, many more autocrossed.

In other words they are being used.

Once the mother company goes away, that daily utility takes on a different aspect. Dealerships go away, so no factory support of any kind. People will have to either to the wrenching themselves (many do, but at different levels) or find reliable local mechanics. Doable, but not so easily. The wrenchers here don't see that as an issue, they just say "it's the easiest car I've ever owned to work on." They see it that way because working on the cars is part of the ownership aspect they enjoy.

Many others don't want that. They want to own and enjoy driving the car, but not working on them.

I've heard some wrenchers say: "This is a hobbyist car, someone who can't or won't work on it shouldn't own it."

Fair enough, but that will shrink the pool of would be buyers, thereby impacting that resale value everyone seems so concerned about.

Many of those in the market now would shy away with having to deal with owning/maintaining an orphan car like the Elige.

Current owners might use the cars less, and they may take on more of the status that MG's, Triumphs, etc have taken on over the years. Most stay in the garage and show up at British Car Days, and very few enthusiasts still autocross or vintage race them.

[DeanG]

The trouble is that Lotus cars are with a few exceptions too inexpensive. If they went for Ferrari money and it took Ferrari money to keep them running there would be many suppliers and specialty shops.

If Lotus went under I would expect to see a few specialty shops open to serve the hobbyist. The Elise/Exige would follow the path of the Esprit, M100, Europa, Elan... for parts and repair. The Evora is more complicated. With fewer sold there might be problems sourcing some of the parts.

At the opposite extreme there is the immortal Lotus Seven. There are more "Lotus" Sevens, VI, Type 11, Type 23... than were ever built by Lotus. Now a minor rant; Someday maybe the majority of Caterham, Birkin, Westfield... owners will be proud of their marques - take off their Lotus badging and put the appropriate badges on their cars.

[texevora]

Not sure if this is positive or negative, but it is "news": Lotus Esprit all but ready to go, but held back by management issues

If the Esprit truly is priced at Carrera 4S Convertible levels ($117K i believe), I think there would be a huge amount of interest. That said, with a fully loaded Evora S in the low 90s, that doesn't seem to make much sense. Either the Evora S has to come down in price, or the Esprit has to move up. Otherwise, at least in my opinion, the Evora becomes unsellable at current MSRP pricepoints (why spend 90K on a 3.5L V6 w/ 350hp when you can spend a little more, 117K on a 5L V8 w/ 650hp?).

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by ncitrdude

Not sure if this is positive or negative, but it is "news": Lotus Esprit all but ready to go, but held back by management issues

If the Esprit truly is priced at Carrera 4S Convertible levels ($117K i believe), I think there would be a huge amount of interest. That said, with a fully loaded Evora S in the low 90s, that doesn't seem to make much sense. Either the Evora S has to come down in price, or the Esprit has to move up. Otherwise, at least in my opinion, the Evora becomes unsellable at current MSRP pricepoints (why spend 90K on a 3.5L V6 w/ 350hp when you can spend a little more, 117K on a 5L V8 w/ 650hp?).

Facts are wrong on the porsches. The new 991 Carreras s run 130k with options. That's where you get the difference.

[vincesf]

Short range: Difficult to obtain parts at a reasonable price, spotty service by people claiming they know how to service the car, including some of the do it yourselfers...

Medium range: Renewed interest in past models (ala Elan, Europa, Esprit., etc.).

Long range: The Elise/Exige should elevate to cult status. This does not equate to valuable, but rather respected and appreciated by driving enthusiasts.

vincesf

[texevora]

where would that leave the Evora? Elevated to cult status like the Elige, or discounted in the minds of enthusiasts for not being as "pure" to the Lotus ideals?

While the Elise/Exige are probably the "purest" of modern Lotus cars in my mind, there have been less than 800 Evoras shipped to the US since it began production. I don't know production #s for the Eliges, but I would have to imagine it's well north of 800.

[Butters]

Originally Posted by evilfij

I am most concerned about one off lotus specific parts like the throttle body and ECU. The rest seem to be off the shelf Toyota stuff or common or consumable parts where there is already an aftermarket. I mean maybe you won't be able to get the right clips or hoses with a lotus sticker on it, but I think they should be maintainable for decades.

Yup, just like billsaidso said (ha), the throttle body is a Toyota part, it comes off a 2005 Celica GT-S. The only difference is if you buy it from Lotus, they tack on an extra $900 or so. The ECU, I'm not sure if a programmable Toyota unit even exists to replace it, but you can always do a standalone (I think you'd compromise on cold weather starting/idling from what I hear).

I think if someone is going to be really hardcore about it, most everything on the car is replaceable in the aftermarket. Decades from now (and hell, even now) people will fab up a rear subframe for the engine, swap in a new engine, all new wiring, new trans, new wheels, new clams, etc. Not sure if someone is willing to hang their neck on the line and make replacement front crash structures, but I'm sure some nutter will. In fact, I think the only thing someone won't be able to replicate if/when Lotus only exists in the history books is the extruded and bonded aluminum chassis. If that goes, there's no straightening or repairing it so then you're looking at finding a replacement car. And in the year 2065, that may be a tall order.

But who knows, maybe in 50 years time we'll all be able to visit the local shop where they'll 3D print an aluminum chassis for us in a matter of hours.

[vincesf]

Originally Posted by ncitrdude

where would that leave the Evora? Elevated to cult status like the Elige, or discounted in the minds of enthusiasts for not being as "pure" to the Lotus ideals?

While the Elise/Exige are probably the "purest" of modern Lotus cars in my mind, there have been less than 800 Evoras shipped to the US since it began production. I don't know production #s for the Eliges, but I would have to imagine it's well north of 800.

Let me give you two extreme views using low production number Lotus models of the past :

One extreme is that it could be remembered like the '74 to '82 Eclat, the other extreme like the Esprit. Personally I believe the Evora is too good a car to be remembered like the Eclat, and will most likely be revered somewhere closer to the Esprit. As for rarity, low production numbers cut both ways, and did not do much for the rarer Eclat. In comparing to the Elige, there are many threads that have dealt with this one, and the Evora is all around a more complete package, but IMHO when cars start driving themselves, enthusiasts will look back at the minimalistic Elige and say: "Here is a car that should be on your bucket list to "drive".

vincesf

vincesf

[David Craig]

ncitrdude,

There were about 5000 Eliges sold in the US.

I've had my 2009 Elise (in Canada) for 3 years now. I've read about the turmoil surrounding Lotus but somehow it doesn't bother me. I enjoy the car a lot and mine has been extremely reliable. Even if Lotus disappears I think my car should last 10 years without problem.

If right now I were in the market for a new car then I think I would buy an Evora. I love the uniqueness of the Lotus brand.

Based on the original post that you have been a long-term Lotus lover, I think you would have fun buying a Lotus even if the company disappeared.

[texevora]

Yep, for sure i have no doubt i would enjoy owning/driving a Lotus, haha.

Just don't want to get caught spending a large sum of money on my dream car only to be stuck with rudimentary repairs costing 5-10x what they normally should (or just as bad, having it be out of commission for an extended period of time due to delays in getting suitable parts).

I guess at the end of the day I'll just have to either pull the trigger and hope for the best, or hopefully some good news comes out of Lotus before year-end to assuage my fears...

[vincesf]

I may be delusional, but it is too early to say it's the end for Lotus.

vincesf

[martinm1]

I am a 4x Lotus owner and certainly the thought of no manufacturer service is not a good one, at least they are fairly straight forward cars to work on with many toyota main parts. My guess is that Lotus will endure under some new entity as it has in the past--just too much history and "brand value". Life is short. What I know is that my Lotus Evora S 2012 is about the most fun and balanced car I have owned. I almost bought an RS5 instead, but so glad that despite the "challenges" I went with the Evora. It makes me happy every time I drive it. I also drove it to Vegas and back last weekend(about 12 hours) and it is very comfortable for a long drive. You get the feel and performance of the Elise with some comfort. Just remember, life is too short to drive any boring car!

[texevora]

The latest take from Skiddmark:
DRB-Hicom Chairman confirms Lotus is 'not safe' and considers its disposal - SkiddMark

Hope he's wrong, but the author seems to be the most neutral observer of all the recent developments. I don't know if "disposal" implies selling (which would be the best option for Lotus at this juncture from a car owner perspective) or winding it down, which would obviously be terrible. Let's hope for the former.

[martinm1]

Sounds like they want out. Liquidation makes no sense, so my guess is someone will buy it cheap. Hopefully they will remain committed to producing new cars---we shall see.

[Lotustwn]

So we'll know by the end of this month according to that article.....

[brgelise]

It seems everyone is an expert with Lotus causing no end of BS in reporting. While at arms length, I still think (IMHO) that Kimi's win and placement in the manufacturers championship put Lotus back in the spotlight, if the marketing numbnuts know where to aim the light.
While tumultulous, maybe finally getting DRB-HICOM to let go of Lotus will be a very good thing. Hopefully some company lacking vehicle dynamics prowess is smart enough to pick them up. I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive. They make great appliances. Let's not spread more BS rumours at the very site that is supposed to sift through it.

[DeanG]

Originally Posted by brgelise

It seems everyone is an expert with Lotus causing no end of BS in reporting. While at arms length, I still think (IMHO) that Kimi's win and placement in the manufacturers championship put Lotus back in the spotlight, if the marketing numbnuts know where to aim the light.
While tumultulous, maybe finally getting DRB-HICOM to let go of Lotus will be a very good thing. Hopefully some company lacking vehicle dynamics prowess is smart enough to pick them up. I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive. They make great appliances. Let's not spread more BS rumours at the very site that is supposed to sift through it.

+1

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by brgelise

I still think Toyota could save a lot of money by buying Lotus because that company sure doesn't know how to make a car you'd WANT to drive.

I'm guessing you haven't driven the FR-S?

[Lotustwn]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

I'm guessing you haven't driven the FR-S?

Test drove it. Not bad but really wasn't my cup of tea...... or make that, coffee

Lotus' future is dark. DRB-HICOM really doesn't care about wins, etc because from a financial standpoint, it isn't worth it to them.. They should just sell it to a company that sees its worth.

EDIT: I don't care though, I'm getting an Evora. If Lotus goes down, it'll still be serviceable with Toyota parts and other 3rd party stuff. It'll just become even more exclusive ---- 'exotic' and 'rare'......

[ItsThaMonsta]

Didn't Lotus just make some type of deal with Honda?