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Old 01-31-2008, 01:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Sales Tax over actual paid price or MSRP?

I bought my new Elise below MSRP, as is specified on the official invoice I have from the dealer. Didn't pay any sales tax yet, so I still need to pay Sales Tax in NY for the car.
Now DMV New York want to charge me sales tax over the MSRP instead of the lower price I actually paid.
IMO, they're screwing us and we should pay the sales tax over the actual paid price. Am I correct?
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just tell the DMV how much you paid and they'll tax you on that amount. That's what I did anyway.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IMO it should be against the actual price paid. When you go to Best Buy to purchase a TV and it's on sale you don't pay tax against the MSRP, you pay it against the actual price paid. If you have a bill of sale from the dealer that should be sufficient proof of the actual price paid.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why didn't you pay at the point of sale?
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Did you buy the car out of state from where you live? Do you have a bill of sale showing the price you paid for the car? The DMV needs a copy of your bill of sale, or if you bought the car used, a copy of your title. You should be charged tax on the balance sale amount (minus any trade value, etc.).
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SpeedGeek View Post
IMO it should be against the actual price paid. When you go to Best Buy to purchase a TV and it's on sale you don't pay tax against the MSRP, you pay it against the actual price paid. If you have a bill of sale from the dealer that should be sufficient proof of the actual price paid.
I have an invoice/title/etc.etc., but those incredible DMV idiots somehow don't believe I got the discount as it is stated on the invoice. What the **** is wrong with these people.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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One of the primary reasons I take most of my DMV-related issues to AAA, who is authorized to handle a lot of DMV issues.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you have a bill of sale, MCO or Title and a credit card, go to a different DMV. They are wrong, and they have to honor the bill of sale. Perhaps it would help to have a bill of sale from the dealer showing their license #.

I would recommend having the dealer do this stuff for you, especially if you bought in NYS. If you bought in CT or NJ they should be able to do the NYS stuff anyway, and collect sales tax for you, all in one...
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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my wife just called, she stepped back in line again, got helped by another DMV employee and you never guess.... that person accepted the actual price. Thank god for the consistency in the DMV!
The fifth attempt to register our car turned out to be succesful! I have NY plates and can safely and legally hit the road again!

Happy driving everyone
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. View Post
I have an invoice/title/etc.etc., but those incredible DMV idiots somehow don't believe I got the discount as it is stated on the invoice. What the **** is wrong with these people.
Here's my guess. Dealers usually work 2 sides of the same coin and they can manipulate the numbers for their and/or your benefit.

Case in point:

You buy a car that cost $50k and you have $10k in equity for your trade. They can (and I've seen them do it) move the numbers from one to the other. In this example, they could sell you the car for $40k and give you $0 for your trade-in.

In reality, you are paying $50k for the car and getting $10k back for the one you are selling. I've moved around a lot and different states have different rules for this sort of thing. In some states, your taxable value is $50k and in others just $40k. Some states have rules in place on cars that you sell to make sure they get you no matter how the dealer structures the purchase of a new car and the sale of an old car.

Anyway, I bet this is why NY is skeptical that it was a discount and not just creative accounting.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I was victom of something similar when I bought a new truck last year in NC and registered it in NY. They made me pay sales tax on the manufactures rebate of $3500. They claimed that that was taxable.
I guess nothings for free in NY state.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Many states have had to crack down because people have abused the system for so long. Lots of people write up bogus bill of sales so they don't have to pay the real fees/taxes due. This is the whiplash from that.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mikelr View Post
I was victom of something similar when I bought a new truck last year in NC and registered it in NY. They made me pay sales tax on the manufactures rebate of $3500. They claimed that that was taxable.
I guess nothings for free in NY state.
Unfotunately that one actually makes logical sense. You paid $X for the vehicle and you pay taxes on that amount. Then, as a completely separate event, you get a rebate. We're lucky the feds don't catch that rebate as actual income!

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Old 01-31-2008, 03:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by XPcarguy View Post
Here's my guess. Dealers usually work 2 sides of the same coin and they can manipulate the numbers for their and/or your benefit.

Case in point:

You buy a car that cost $50k and you have $10k in equity for your trade. They can (and I've seen them do it) move the numbers from one to the other. In this example, they could sell you the car for $40k and give you $0 for your trade-in.

In reality, you are paying $50k for the car and getting $10k back for the one you are selling. I've moved around a lot and different states have different rules for this sort of thing. In some states, your taxable value is $50k and in others just $40k. Some states have rules in place on cars that you sell to make sure they get you no matter how the dealer structures the purchase of a new car and the sale of an old car.

Anyway, I bet this is why NY is skeptical that it was a discount and not just creative accounting.
Maybe that's what they were thinking, I didn't sell my old car to the dealer so maybe that caused them to be suspicious about the discount I r'ved.
Anyway, thank god it's solved now!
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XPcarguy View Post
Here's my guess. Dealers usually work 2 sides of the same coin and they can manipulate the numbers for their and/or your benefit.

Case in point:

You buy a car that cost $50k and you have $10k in equity for your trade. They can (and I've seen them do it) move the numbers from one to the other. In this example, they could sell you the car for $40k and give you $0 for your trade-in.

In reality, you are paying $50k for the car and getting $10k back for the one you are selling. I've moved around a lot and different states have different rules for this sort of thing. In some states, your taxable value is $50k and in others just $40k. Some states have rules in place on cars that you sell to make sure they get you no matter how the dealer structures the purchase of a new car and the sale of an old car.

Anyway, I bet this is why NY is skeptical that it was a discount and not just creative accounting.
Giving low trades and discounting happens at some dealers. Technically, it's tax evasion, so I don't do it here. It's called "underallowing" on the trade. "Overallowing" used to be common, but now it's illegal, which just throws the numbers the other direction, in case the customer wanted more on their trade than it was worth, but then you bumped up the price of your new car.

In California, you pay tax on the selling price of the new car, not if ands or buts. In NY as I understand it, you only pay tax on the car, minus any difference on trade. So, if you get a $40k car, but trade in something worth $10k, you only pay tax on the difference of $30k.

Sounds like the OP ran into an idiot at the DMV. They've gotten better than they we're in the past, but still a blind monkey could do a better job.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.D. View Post
I bought my new Elise below MSRP, as is specified on the official invoice I have from the dealer. Didn't pay any sales tax yet, so I still need to pay Sales Tax in NY for the car.
Now DMV New York want to charge me sales tax over the MSRP instead of the lower price I actually paid.
IMO, they're screwing us and we should pay the sales tax over the actual paid price. Am I correct?

they can't tax you on money you don't spend.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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California charges sales tax on the full price, before trade in. I guess they don't care how you pay for the car (cash, trade in, whore yourself out...), they just want their sales tax income. Over the years I bet I've paid enough sales tax on cars to buy a second Exige.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Sounds like the OP ran into an idiot at the DMV. They've gotten better than they we're in the past, but still a blind monkey could do a better job.
I definitely prefer the blind monkey! Or even a non blind one as matter of fact.
If I was allowed to vote I would vote blindly for the president candidate who promises a be-customer-friendly-or-be-fired approach for the DMV.
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Same in WA State

Here is Washington State they are doing the same thing. I just paid the tax on the Exige last week after I got it inspected. Since mine is a Salvage title I only had to pay tax on the $24,500 I paid for the car. The lady at the DMV said it would have been tax on $51,000 and at 8.6% that would have been another $2,400. Crazy they way they can do this even when you buy from a dealer. Just plan sucks on cars with a quick depreciation on the first year or two.

Good Luck,
Brian
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:05 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'll be registering in MA this Spring. They use "book value" for a used car. Which book? NADA, of course; the one published by an association with a vested interest in pushing up used car prices.

I'm really glad to know NADA think an '06 Exige is worth $51,900! Over MSRP; and that's "average" value, high retail is listed at $59,150.

Anyone in MA know if this can be challenged?
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