Salvage Cars going for Stupid Money - what are you thinking

[93viperrt10]

I recently saw a Salvage title 2005 Lotus Elise 30k mi, crippled front clam, damage to sill, door and rear clam go for $16,100. The questions asked of seller are "can I get insurance, can I get it registered?" Are you kidding me what about what damage is there to the aluminum space frame , is the crash strucuture compromised etc.

Look, maybe I am wrong but you can buy a pretty decent 2005 clean title car for around $25k . The reason the insurance company paid out on this car is because they could not ECONOMICALLY fix it. Granted, availability of parts factors into the decision but really $16k. Assuming you do the work yourself (I would never buy a DIY R titled Elise unless the seller was very special, too many places to take shortcuts). I catch a thread here and there in which someone will comment , "its only glass , you can do it yourself" Yeah maybe the hatch of a 2003 minivan, but a DIY doing the glass on clam for an Elise with all the intricate stress points, good luck.

Anyway,you still have to fix all the damage which would take countless hours to do. Then you have to have it professionally painted or forget ever selling it (assuming your glass repairs don't crack). Then of coarse there is the crash stucture which everyone , everywhere says "do not fix , replace" Thats gotta cost $1300 and alot of time . Removing radiator, oilcooler etc.

So back to the $16k "Easy Fix' Assuming the Aluminum space frame is not compromised, your into this car for almost $20k with a ton of hours. When your done, you have a $22k car at best assuming you will find someone willing to pay that for a DIY Lotus fix which I can tell you ITS NOT ME. You would be better to take the $20k put it in the bank, spend your weekends working at PEP BOYS making $8/hr and in the time it would take you to fix the salvage Elise you could have earned enough extra money to buy a clean one.

Oh yeah, if the space frame is compromized, then you will spend the next 6 months yanking parts off a car and selling them on this site hoping to recover the investment, all the while your wife telling you "your an idiot" . Even with the high price of used Elise parts, not sure you can get there.

I think a salvage title 05 Elise depending on how bad is worth about $9-10k . One sold this week at one of the salvage auction sites in much better shape than the ebay car for $9700. At that price, if the chassis is compromised you can sell off the parts and get whole (or even make alittle). Your wife will still tell you your an idiot but thats what they do!!

What am I missing?????

[addertooth]

You are missing the desperation of the purchaser, who, unfamiliar with the car looks at the damage and says "I can fix that cheap". There are loads of people who only have 10 to 20k in their pocket, but want an Elise.

[evilfij]

Fiberglass repair is almost all labor costs. If you think of it as a boat and not a lotus, no big deal. People either DIY for themselves or for profit. If you have no other means of support, fixing salavage cars is a decent way to make $20+ an hour for your time. I would never do it, but lots of people do.

For export, wrecked cars are often taxed less (some places have 100% tax on car imports) -- my wreck went to Lithunia.

While any damage to the chassis you must replace is Lotus line, as people have shown on this website, this is not necessary for minor issues (like a ripped suspension mount).

Used parts for lotus are pretty cheap given the number of wrecks and the number of people who put aftermarket stuff on so things like a wheel and suspension stuff can be had for 100s not thousands.

If you are going to race/track a lotus, that the clams were smashed before isn't so much of a big deal.

[yellow99s]

Won't they all inevitably need the radiator & oil coolers removed anyway? It could be that potential salvage buyers aren't interested in ending up with a bone stock '05 Elise, they're kind of sh*tty from the factory. I went with a used but fine Elise knowing full well that 1/2 of it would end up in the trash so depending on the type of damage, salvage could make a lot of sense.

[antinym]

I never understood people who think that only professionals can do a professional job. I'm all for people repairing things themselves and taking the time to learn and do it right. Fiberglass is not hard. Paint is not hard. Crash box? okay, that could be expensive.. But, you know what? My 67 Caddy didn't have crash boxes, and that was fun.. why not just rip 'em out. If we wanted safe cars we'd all buy volvos.

[aschen]

It is more likely to do a decent job DIYing a fiberglass clam than a 2003 minivan hatch.

I agree salvage cars seem way overpriced, but then again history is full of sellers who overvalue their stuff.

[VSAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by antinym

I never understood people who think that only professionals can do a professional job. I'm all for people repairing things themselves and taking the time to learn and do it right. Fiberglass is not hard. Paint is not hard. Crash box? okay, that could be expensive.. But, you know what? My 67 Caddy didn't have crash boxes, and that was fun.. why not just rip 'em out. If we wanted safe cars we'd all buy volvos.

Wow... this post proves the point of the OP. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and what it takes to rebuild a car to any sort of quality standard, Lotus or not. I completely disagree that "glass is easy" and "paint is easy". Its not easy... its very difficult. I pay professionals A LOT of money to do these jobs for me the right way. There is a reason why body work/paint is expensive, quality materials are expensive, the right equipment is expensive and the work is difficult, time consuming, tedious and extremely detail oriented. I can spot your DIY glass/paint job from across the parking lot LOL.

Why not rip out the crash box? Because the crash STRUCTURE is not only the only substantial thing in between you and whatever you crash into, but it is also where the radiator, condenser, fans, oil coolers and FRONT CLAM mount! Oh, you are going to fabricate a cheaper replacement structure to mount all that stuff to? Have fun with that

I am a professional and I would NEVER pay $16K for a crashed lotus. That is because I know what parts cost and how long it takes to fix and install them. Its not easy and its not cheap and thats why anyone with half a brain pays real money to have it done right. I'm not saying that ONLY pros can do this kind of work, but the majority of people who think they can do this kind of work in their garage end up with a car that has been very obviously repaired or they end up paying someone to finish it. To be honest, most of the so called "professional" rebuilds are full of cut corner BS also.

On the other hand I think that doing your own mechanical repair in the garage is awesome. If it wasn't for working on my own car when I was a kid, I wouldn't get to do the work I do now. A simple set of tools and some research on the net can get you very far. Just please, leave the body work to professional unless you really know what you're doing.



RANT OVER!

[jbs986]

I agree, fixing a salvaged Lotus is not cheap or easy, but it sure can be done. I bought my 2006 three years ago from Copart I did all the mechanical work myself and had a friend do the paint and body work and fiberglass work on the car, yes he is a professional and specializes in boats, ideal person to work on our cars.

My car turned out great and I have a total of: $18,500 into the car.

[ee.engineer]

Originally Posted by jbs986

I agree, fixing a salvaged Lotus is not cheap or easy, but it sure can be done. I bought my 2006 three years ago from Copart I did all the mechanical work myself and had a friend do the paint and body work and fiberglass work on the car, yes he is a professional and specializes in boats, ideal person to work on our cars.

My car turned out great and I have a total of: $18,500 into the car.

wow, does your friend need more friends?

[93viperrt10]

Originally Posted by jbs986

I agree, fixing a salvaged Lotus is not cheap or easy, but it sure can be done. I bought my 2006 three years ago from Copart I did all the mechanical work myself and had a friend do the paint and body work and fiberglass work on the car, yes he is a professional and specializes in boats, ideal person to work on our cars.

My car turned out great and I have a total of: $18,500 into the car.

The point isnt that these cars shouldnt be fixed or that you shouldnt do some of the work yourself. The point is paying $16k+ for a totaled Elise makes no sense. This guy has $18.5k into a car worth $22k makes perfect sense, but I know he couldnt get there if he started at $16k.

I also agree with the rant post. There is alot of work a good DIY mechanic can do himself, but I watched a guy on Youtube painting an Elise in his garage with sh&t everwhere, can you imagine the mess that turned out to be. An Exotic car paint job needs a great paint booth, great materials and alot of experience. I agree with him.

Anyone reading these posts and considering buying a salvage titled car, stop and think about it before you pull that trigger. If your buying off ebay, then you need to ask for confirmation that the Chassis is not compromised or whether the crash structure is damaged before throwing any real money at a car. If you buying blind at a salvage auction like Coparts, then you have to assume the chassis is compromised and you can sell off the visually usable parts and walk away whole. If miss these key points you just plain foolish.

[billsaidso]

This is just my opinion but if the VINs are not tracked and theses vehicles are rebuilt by, let's just say, people who do it cheaply to make a buck or those who think they "know what they are doing"
It will bring the value of ALL lotus Elise and Exige vehicles down in the US because no one will know 100% for sure if it was an insurance total or not.

I know some of the cars that show up on e-bay and such are currently being tracked on this site making it easy to detect cars like these.

If someone comes across such a car, they should list it by VIN number here in the salvage thread thus helping to keep and possibly even improve the value of the Elise and Exige (less means harder to get leading to a more valuable auto).

[yellow99s]

Originally Posted by 93viperrt10

I watched a guy on Youtube painting an Elise in his garage with sh&t everwhere, can you imagine the mess that turned out to be. An Exotic car paint job needs a great paint booth, great materials and alot of experience.

You're beginning to make Arashi look intelligent.
These are JUST CARS, and not even very good ones.
Here, have a look at mine in Lamborghini's Canopus Blanco. Hopefully "the mess" doesn't offend you.









DAY ONE: Purchased in great condition for $18,400 28 months ago, 35K miles, clean title & car fax. No where near exotic.

Now how about some background info on what made you an expert?

[btotheje]

Phwoah! That looks great!!!!!!!

[93viperrt10]

Originally Posted by yellow99s

You're beginning to make Arashi look intelligent.
These are JUST CARS, and not even very good ones.
Here, have a look at mine in Lamborghini's Canopus Blanco. Hopefully "the mess" doesn't offend you.

DAY ONE: Purchased in great condition for $18,400 28 months ago, 35K miles, clean title & car fax. No where near exotic.

Now how about some background info on what made you an expert?

For starters, great looking car Congrats. Now take a look at the setup in your shop to paint your car and compare it to the set up used to paint this other elise on Youtube under "Lotus Progress Video"

Lotus Progress Video - YouTube

Lotus Progress Video - YouTube

. Some difference right.

Now back to my original point - you can not pay $16+ k for Salvage Elise with a crippled front clam, damaged sill , door and rear clam not knowing what damage is underneath and end up on the right side of that deal. Your situation is completely different, you bought a clean title car with no damage for $18.5k THATS MY POINT. Even if you dump $8-10k into your car you are in good shape.

As far as being an expert, I am not otherwise I would have said I could do it all better than everyone else. What I said is there are things you can do yourself, and things you should have someone more experienced do. I have seem cars painted in a guys garage that look amazing, and car done in a body shop with a downdraft paint booth that look like s%$t. I personally would take on most of the mechanical and substructure repairs, some glass work, but probably not to the front clam and would not take on painting the car in my garage.

An finally to your attempt to dig at me: I disagree they are amazing cars. There are alot of great cars out there, and if you have $250k to throw at one, good for you. But I have a passion for low production , hand build , specialty cars (which is why I own a Viper) that are modestly affordable. I have friends with Ferraris, Lambo and Porsche and this car will run with any of them (Exige actually will run away from them on the right track) . So again, for the money , there is no better track/road car.

you will find another post from me about Hydro Aluminum in which I offered some background on myself . I was there when Hydro Aluminum Automotive was launching its advance aluminum application project which gave birth to the Treser TR1 whose subframe technology was the precurser to the Lotus Aluminum Space Frame Chassis.

Again back to my original point, you can not buy one of these cars, thinking you straighten the frame, slap on some glass on it an go like you can a Corvette. Buyers need to beware when throwing "Stupid money" at a crashed Elise. Its different

An finally paying $18.5 for a clean titled, 35k mi undamaged Elise is a testament how you should do it. Buy the car the right , do what you can yourself , outsource what you can not and do not take shortcuts. Taking a salvage Elise with a damaged Chassis and trying to fix it in your garage because you overpaid and are in over your head is a disaster for you and every person after you that gets stuck with that car.

PS: I am not an expert and never claimed to be. But I am an Mechanical Engineer who worked in advance aluminum automotive applications and just love cars and been around some amazing work. Not an expert, but not a newbie either (although newbie to the Lotus)

[93viperrt10]

another comment to YELLOW 999, in your signature you state "I swear to God 99% of the people on this forum think they're the first person to ever have their turn signal pop out, drop their keys in the trunk, want wider tires, wonder if these are good daily cars and on and on and on. It's starting to feel like the Bill Murray movie, Groundhog's Day, around here. "

Thats what these car forums are for, I am on the Countryman and Viper sites as well and its what we do. Complaining about that is like hanging around a Senior Citizens Center and then bitching about having to listen to people complain about the cost of Viagra.

You have almost 900 post, whats your point.

[sprocket3]

I'm one of those tools fixing a salvaged Elise right now. I have all the parts and the only thing left is to take the front clam and parts to a pro for paint work. I'm not doing the finish paint.

While I had the clam off I upgraded the radiator (pro-rad) and pulled out the oil cooler and hoses (going oil/water route). Also installed a blackwatch racing bar while it was all apart.

I'm at about 60% of market price for a similar car with clear title. The cars are really easy to work on to be honest and once you pull the clam off it's all very basic and easy to get at. It's just a car for gosh sakes, and not even a complicated one.

I agree that some cars are selling a little high given the cost of repairs. I think if I sell my car I will only get out hard costs with no consideration for my time. But it's sorta fun, so who cares.

I was able to inspect mine in person up on a rack and couldn't find so much as a hint of damage beyond the clam and undertrays.

I think what you're missing is that some people are taking a huge gamble if they can't verify what is damaged. Or maybe they know something about the car and are willing to pay more. I paid good money for mine, but was able to look it over real well. Though I still took a chance on this project.

Cheers..

[yellow99s]

I've made no effort to dig at you, just to set you strait. Feel free to go through my 900 posts. 30% mention that the Elige isn't a very good car and it's not, when you own one you'll understand. Wether or not a wrecked car is a good value depends more on the buyer. Not the car. As far as my sig goes, spend a year here and you'll be pasting my sig into yours - Lotus Talk is hands down the strangest collection of owners I've ever encountered, from brilliant minds that can't inflate a tire to Joe Shmoe's that build the most incredible mechanical art on the planet. Did you see how many new threads came up when the second round of oil line recall (and vin) letters went out? It floors me that some people can perform brain surgery but aren't capable of using a search button or merely clicking "Active Topics."

[93viperrt10]

Sprocket 3 has it right, buying a salvage Elise is a great way to own one. If you can confirm what your getting, then its worth more. If you buying blind, Coparts/Ebay then you have to assume the worst and wish for the best.

Good luck on your car, sorry i am other side of the world so not much help. If your still looking for parts, let me know what you need, I scowering the web for Elise, might trip over something you need.

John

[93viperrt10]

Yellow 999 - just busting your balls with the Viagra dig. I saw what you did with your car, bought it right, did right - hats off to you. I can tell you the Elise is no worse than the early Vipers. Some of us are gluttons for punishment.

Anyway, respect what you did with your car, you been around and know these cars alot better than me. As I embark on this new project, I hope I can reach out to you for your input......John

Your new friend in Pittsburgh

PS: tell me the way that guy painted that yellow elise on Youtube was ok with you. (unless its a track car)

[jbs986]

93Viprrat10, you're entitled to your own opinion but it's just that,your opinion. yellow 99's Elise is it 2005 he bought 28 months ago, my car is it 2006 that I bought in August 2009, with less than 1,300 miles on it. at the time 2006 Elise was going for $40,000+.

I can easily sell my car this summer for $20,000 after four years of driving the car. thanks to guys like you fanning the flames of negativity about cars with salvage rebuilt title,I should be able to buy an Evora and have it on the road for about $20,000.

PS, you can inspect car's at Copart or have someone inspect it for you. I was able to put a prorad radiator, and a custom front clam on my car,the only one like it North America.