Spyker and Lotus dating again

[SweetDaddyD]

That's why I never refer to going out as a date. I prefer Rendezvousing lol.

Originally Posted by Chris Mackey

Dating usually leads to marriage, but I think this couple is incompatible for that.

Sounds more like a booty call to me.

[TorsinADoc]

Originally Posted by jlj3394

I think it is "variable vehicle architecture" which is basically a modular chassis design that will allow Lotus to build multiple models without huge design changes - critical for a small car company. They have shopped it to other mfg's who like the idea of starting with a lightweight design.

With the EPA regs really looming, I could see them selling the VVA technology to a lot of mfgs

thanks

[AnsisK]

Doesn't seem to be anything more than Lotus being contracted. It doesn't say anything of Lotus getting Spyker parts or consultancy, just Spyker buying Lotus tech.

PS - I thought VVA was vertical vehicle architecture. I could be wrong though.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by andrewgotanelise

Um spyker doesnt make simplistic and lightweight cars.

Yes they absolutely do.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by andrewgotanelise

Um spyker doesnt make simplistic and lightweight cars.

Yes they absolutely do. The C8 has no power steering or brakes (that's what Rijk told me anyways), manually operated top, and a very low vehicle weight.

[knucklehead]

The C8 weights 3,141.58 lbs. Hard to classify that as lightweight on a Lotus forum.

[rijk365gtb4]

Originally Posted by knucklehead

The C8 weights 3,141.58 lbs. Hard to classify that as lightweight on a Lotus forum.

That is the "as tested" weight, including a full tank of gas and the driver. The curb weight is 2900LB. Pretty lightweight for a car in the same class as a Ferrari. Actually, a whopping 500LB less.

[Cali]

Originally Posted by mopho

I think the Spykers are fabulous looking inside and out

I'm with you 100%. That cross-stitched (or whatever it's called) leather, especially in the tan color, is gorgeous! To each his own, I guess...

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by Cali

I'm with you 100%. That cross-stitched (or whatever it's called) leather, especially in the tan color, is gorgeous! To each his own, I guess...

I'm with you guys as well. Spykers are absolutely brilliant as well as beautiful cars. Every time I see the shift linkage I need to swap pants. The entire car has a certain timeless elegance to it that makes it hard to pin down when it was made. I'd also argue the Spykers are very light weight given their powerplant and dimensions. I read an article that not a single item in a Spyker is made of plastic, including the metal windshield washer fluid reservoir and that basically everything is made by hand.

[milehitom]

Originally Posted by AnsisK

Doesn't seem to be anything more than Lotus being contracted. It doesn't say anything of Lotus getting Spyker parts or consultancy, just Spyker buying Lotus tech.

PS - I thought VVA was vertical vehicle architecture. I could be wrong though.

"Versatile Vehicle Architecture"-here's an interesting overview of the chassis back in 2004.

Tom

Lotus Bonds with Aluminum

By Kermit Whitfield, Senior Associate Editor


If aluminum-intensive cars are ever to become more than an occasional curiosity, automakers may have to give up their weld shops. At least that’s the conclusion you could draw after talking with the people at Lotus Engineering (Hethel, England). Lotus has been building cars with aluminum chassis for many years, but none of them are welded: they are held together with screws and adhesives. When Lotus first introduced the method on the low-volume Elise in 1996, company leaders were worried about market acceptance for what is essentially a glued-together car, but the technique proved so successful (over 23,000 cars produced with no reported failures) that it has become the basis of a new higher volume venture that may help to bring aluminum-intensive vehicles more into the mainstream. The new project, which uses Lotus’ Versatile Vehicle Architecture (see AD&P February 2004, “Lotus’ Versatile Venture”), tweaks the lessons learned on the Elise for volume production, but remains true to the fundamental concept: to get the most out of aluminum structures you must design for the material, not treat it like a steel substitute.


Bond, Adhesive Bond. First and foremost, that means not welding it. Why? “The yield strength of aluminum goes down by half once its welded,” explains Richard Rackham, vehicle architect at Lotus. So, getting the same strength in a welded aluminum chassis as in a bonded unit requires doubling the amount of material used; since aluminum is usually chosen for its light weight, that dilutes its key benefit. Another big disadvantage of welding aluminum is that stresses are localized along a point or a line, which can lead to material fatigue. Stresses are distributed over a wide part-mating when bonding is used. To gain the full merits of using adhesive, Lotus had to come up with ways to optimize its properties. For example, after determining that the optimum bond gap between parts is 0.2 mm, the question became how to maintain that gap uniformly over the bonded surface. The answer: Lotus designed tiny protrusions, or “pips” on the parts that held them exactly 0.2 mm apart.

To fabricate the main chassis components Lotus chose a process well-suited to aluminum: extrusion. Chassis supplier Norsk Hydro ASA (Oslo, Norway) extrudes the closed-box parts out of 6000 series aluminum and bonds them to folded sheets of recycled 3000 series. Rackham says that one reason extrusions were chosen is because they can be inexpensively produced (he estimates the cost of a die at about $5,000), which helps to offset the higher material costs of aluminum. Another is that they can be formed into complex shapes that serve multiple purposes and help keep parts count down. The proof: the entire Elise chassis consists of only 27 different extrusions.


Higher Volume. The challenge Lotus now faces is translating the aluminum production methods for an essentially hand-made $40,000 sports car to affordable vehicles that can be mass-produced. It’s current initiative, which is being conducted for an unnamed automaker, looks to build sub-$30,000 vehicles in the 40,000 to 50,000 annual unit range. To do that, Lotus is making some changes. According to Kerry Osborne, principal engineer, the hand-applied flow drill screws that are currently used to knit the Elise chassis together are being replaced by self-piercing rivets which can be shot more quickly, though they require application tools that generate at least five tons of pressure. But perhaps the biggest change is in the bonding. Realizing that no mass-production operation can afford the Elise’s 50-minute curing time (nor would it wish to incur the expense of multiple ovens), Lotus is replacing the heat-cured single part epoxy adhesive used on the sports car, which required temperatures of 180°C, with one that will cure in the lower heat of the paint oven. (Both adhesives are sourced from Dow Automotive [Auburn Hills, MI].) The savings in process time garnered by these changes could be enough to peak the interest of volume automakers and get them to consider bonded aluminum chassis as a viable alternative for niche vehicle production. After all, what do they have to lose, except their weld shops?

[rijk365gtb4]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

I read an article that not a single item in a Spyker is made of plastic, including the metal windshield washer fluid reservoir and that basically everything is made by hand.

Well, that is a little exaggerated, I'm afraid. However, there is no visible plastic in the interior. The craftsmanship is incredible.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by knucklehead

The C8 weights 3,141.58 lbs. Hard to classify that as lightweight on a Lotus forum.

The website, for what it's worth, lists the C8 Spyder at 2750 lbs and the C8 Laviolette at around 2850.


Consider that a comparable Ferrari F430 spider with manual tranny has a curb weight listed by Ferrari at 3351 lbs. That's 500 lbs more and that's with NO options.

Realistically that F-spider would weigh around 3500 lbs.


A lot of measures are taken to keep the C8 at such a light weight.

[rijk365gtb4]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Realistically that F-spider would weigh around 3500 lbs.

Test weight on the F Spider is 3660LB according to Road&Track. Try to take 500 LB out of that car......

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by TorsinADoc

what is VVA?

Lotus vva - Google Search

[Gizmo3000]

Spyker and Lotus have now come to the conclusion that they need to intensify their cooperation to the point that we intend to share parts and platforms, as well as an agreement on the supply of parts..

Just read about it in the paper today.. and that statement sounds like typical BS Spin press release on behalf of Spyker.

Spyker is hurting financially, can't afford to build and sell their own cars, and goes to Lotus for help.

Just as Tesla took the Elise concept and made an electric car, Spyker will probably take the Eagle and Esprit platform, slap on $100k in fancy wheels and interior to justify their $275k+ pricetag.

[rijk365gtb4]

Originally Posted by Gizmo3000

Spyker is hurting financially, can't afford to build and sell their own cars, and goes to Lotus for help.

Just as Tesla took the Elise concept and made an electric car, Spyker will probably take the Eagle and Esprit platform, slap on $100k in fancy wheels and interior to justify their $275k+ pricetag.

You should update your information. 2007 was a bad year for Spyker, but now they are back in full production.

When you built small amounts of cars, the R&D leans heavily on the car price. I think that Spyker need to built 200+ cars to break even, and that is hard to achieve in this market. Especially the weak dollar hurts.

To share (variable) platforms with Lotus is a very good thing. They can get top-notch engineering and share the R&D cost.

Actually, notwithstanding the weak dollar, Spyker has lowered their pricing from 275K+ to 225K+, and they are doing this without compromising quality.

[cornbeef]

so what's the difference in lotus' vva and aston martins version

[ivan1]

I thought I read somewhere that Spyker helped design the interior scheme of the California edition elise

anything that helps Lotus to survive is ok with me...