They WON'T GIVE ME MY CAR BACK!!!! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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They WON'T GIVE ME MY CAR BACK!!!!

Okay so here is the story with my car. I am more than a little upset about this.

As many of you know my car was damaged and has been out of comission since July 4th. It went into the shop, advanced collision technologies in Torrence CA.

Anyway, I have begun to grow impatient with the wait, and the line we are waiting for parts.... Yesterday I went to the repair place and asked to see my car. It is completely repaired. I was told that the repairs had just been finished 20 minutes before I arrived. I was a little suspect of the answer though as there was 30 pounds of dust all over every inch of my car.

The service man there had told me that he was waiting for some paperwork and that it would be fine to pick up tomorrow (which of course is today). I was suspicious that my car had been repaired for a while and it was being held as collateral against the insurance company to make sure that they kept paying for a loaner cor for me so that the body shop would get thier check.

I went back today, and spoke with a person there who understood that I was going to pick the car up this afternoon. I arrived at around 5:00 pm and was told they would not release the car to me. Apparently they had not gotten approval on the final supplemental insurance adjustment and could not release the car to me without a final bill.

My reaction to this was one of complete frustration. They cost of the parts is well know, and I don't see how this is taking so F-ing long. The suplemental should have been handled a long time ago, and the total cost of repairs to my car now stands at 22,000 and change plus the aditional 3 to 4 thousand of rental car that has been covered.

I must say that I am very angry about this situation and feel as though I am being manipulated by the body shop to make sure thye get thier money. For clarification, the other person's insurance is paying for everything, so they don't care if I am satisfied or not. The best I can figure is that the body shop is contecnt to let Enterprise keep charging a daily rental fee to make sure they get the "paperwork" finalized. I feel completely manipulated and they told me that if the insurance company refuses to pay for the asjustment, I will be responsible, and unless I pay it, they STILL WON'T RELEASE THE CAR TO ME!! Hopefully I will get the car tomorrow, but something tells me that the estimator/and paperwork and everything else will prevent me from taking posession of MY car again tomorrow.

I am wondering if anyone knows anything about the laws that may apply to this kind of case. The work is done, it is NOT my liability, and they are holding my property hostage.


The good news is that I am auditioning for a role on Pamela Anderson's new show STACKED tomorrow. That will be quite rewarding, and beyond every young adolescent's fantasy if I get to work with her.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Until the body shop is paid they are not required to release your car. You need to lean on your insurance company to get there company to complete the contract.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mean TT

The good news is that I am auditioning for a role on Pamela Anderson's new show STACKED tomorrow. That will be quite rewarding, and beyond every young adolescent's fantasy if I get to work with her.
make sure you keep us posted on that!

..and dont listen to the little voice in your head!!
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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As Bill said, they are not required to release it until they are paid. In fact if it goes unpaid they can put a lien on it and sell it to pay for the invoice!

What they said is correct, you can elect to pay for the difference (the amount the insurance company hasn't paid) and then the invoice would be paid in full, and the car would be released.

If you did that you'd have to fight with the insurance company to reimburse you.

Since it's the other driver's insurance that is disputing the amount it may be prudent to get your insurance carrier involved. Your carrier may elect to pay the difference and then they would duke it out with the other company. I would imagine that your insurance company has a fleet of attorneys that are well versed in these types of things.

So, as Bill said, your beef should be with the other driver's insurance company not the shop, they just want to get paid for their work. Having said that they should have been more up front with you about what was going on.

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Old 09-22-2005, 10:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khamai
Since it's the other driver's insurance that is disputing the amount it may be prudent to get your insurance carrier involved. Your carrier may elect to pay the difference and then they would duke it out with the other company. I would imagine that your insurance company has a fleet of attorneys that are well versed in these types of things.
Right on, Kiyoshi. It's called subrogation. In a similar circumstance (when my Elan was crunched by a kid in a car older than he was), a single, friendly word to his insurance company's adjuster ("lawsuit") was enough to move them off the mark. If one word doesn't do it, perhaps "lawsuit with punitive damages" might do it.

Speak to to his insurance company's adjuster first, then to your own insurance agent. If your insurance company has to pay for an underinsured claim or for an amount that the other insurance doesn't want to pay, they'll send it straight to their lawyers for subrogation. It's very likely to be quickly resolved in your favor, though you may be out the deductible on your policy for the period of subrogation.

Best of luck.
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bill B
Until the body shop is paid they are not required to release your car. You need to lean on your insurance company to get there company to complete the contract.
I am not disputing you, but how can it be legal for a individual (corporation) to hold property titled to me, without my consent, for a compensation issue that I am not responsible for. It just seems like I am the one getting screwed here. If I involve my insurance, it goes on as a claim, and raises my deductable - I get screwed.

I understand the issue of payment, but that is a legal matter, holding my property hostage acomplished nothing except upsetting me. In other words, because me car is being held, I am not more inclined to be agreeable, for from it! I am more inclined to get as many lawyers as it takes to resolve the issue.

Furthermore, if it does come down to me haveing to cover the difference, how can I be expected to pay for repair work I did not authorize or even approve, let alone was notified of?

For what it is worth, and I understand the bodyshops position, but it seems like they have nothing to gain not releasing my car. As for selling it, how can they sell property that isn't theirs? It can't be like a default on a legal document like a loan, heck I never even signed any papers at all.

Pamela Pamela Pamela
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Why would your insurance go up if your company subrogates and it was the other guy's fault? Why haven't you been checking up on things - months have gone by? Take some responsibility! This sort of thing happens all the time and folks deal with it. When you get the car back, don't leave it out during a hurricane, parked next to an angry mob to which you give the finger before leaving, park it illegally in loading zones, etc.

There are things you should do when you need to have work done on a car...major work. There are liability issue difference here too...tort versus contract law depending on how you chose to proceed. Maybe check with an attorney or at least make some phone calls to straighten things out. You need to be sure that the car was properly repaired too.

Last edited by Stan; 09-23-2005 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean TT
For what it is worth, and I understand the bodyshops position, but it seems like they have nothing to gain not releasing my car. As for selling it, how can they sell property that isn't theirs? It can't be like a default on a legal document like a loan, heck I never even signed any papers at all. :
duh- what they have to gain is getting paid for the work they did. it is between you and the insurance company and the shop now. you need to have a serious chat with the insurance people. and oh, ya might consider changing insurers given this situation. go DO something
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Don't get me wrong, but how old are you? Apparently, you are involved in show business and as such should be used to working with people that look out for their own interests. The body shop did quite a bit of work and must be out of pocket some real cash for the parts that were replaced. If you were in their shoes would you give away the only piece of leverage that you have? Having been involved with similar claims with insurance companies in the past gives me some background on this subject. I would advise you to get on the phone with both your insurance company and the other parties insurance company and get things moving. It is your car and you should be able to get it back. Threats of lawsuits and such are fine but what you want is your car back. Another piece of advice, try to keep your head while speaking with the adjuster. Most of them have quite a bit of discression and if you act like an ass it may only slow the process down. With regards to the nuclear solution: the lawsuit that you threaten them with is for operating in "bad faith." Those are the words that can open them up to punative damages. However, the chances of you collecting on that are slim and years away. Good Luck! Remember to keep it professional.

By the way. After a specified time (depends on your state law) the body shop CAN auction off your vehicle in order to cover the bill. The good news is that you will get any money that they collect in excess of the billed amount. However, the body shop can start charging a "storage fee" which should increase the bill substantially.

Last edited by reganfin; 09-23-2005 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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lotus, lotus, lotus...TELL US ALL ABOUT PAM!!!!!!!! SHE IS THE HOTTEST.
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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lotus, lotus, lotus...TELL US ALL ABOUT PAM!!!!!!!! SHE IS THE HOTTEST.
J-son...wrong thread perhaps?
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mean TT
I am not disputing you, but how can it be legal for a individual (corporation) to hold property titled to me, without my consent, for a compensation issue that I am not responsible for. It just seems like I am the one getting screwed here. If I involve my insurance, it goes on as a claim, and raises my deductable - I get screwed.
The accident has already been deemed not your fault. Your insurance company is there to take care of you. Call your agent, and see what he recommends. Someone needs to find out why the other insurance company is balking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean TT
I understand the issue of payment, but that is a legal matter, holding my property hostage acomplished nothing except upsetting me. In other words, because me car is being held, I am not more inclined to be agreeable, for from it! I am more inclined to get as many lawyers as it takes to resolve the issue.

Furthermore, if it does come down to me haveing to cover the difference, how can I be expected to pay for repair work I did not authorize or even approve, let alone was notified of?

For what it is worth, and I understand the bodyshops position, but it seems like they have nothing to gain not releasing my car. As for selling it, how can they sell property that isn't theirs? It can't be like a default on a legal document like a loan, heck I never even signed any papers at all.
A couple of points. You are understandably upset about the situation, but try to see it from the body shop's perspective. It's not *all* your property. Until they're paid, the parts that they bought on your behalf are still theirs, so if you were to take the car, you'd be taking some of *their* property. Additionally, I've never seen a shop that didn't require a signature stating that you authorize the repairs, that the repairs would be paid for, and the shop can hang onto the car until they are compensated for their work. You authorized the work when you filed the insurance claim.

It seems to me that the problem is the other insurance company has changed their mind about paying for the damage their customer inflicted. The body shop is just caught in the middle.

Jim
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Old 09-23-2005, 07:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by J-Son
lotus, lotus, lotus...TELL US ALL ABOUT PAM!!!!!!!! SHE IS THE HOTTEST.
I you mean diseased, then I guess you're right...
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Old 09-23-2005, 08:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jefft
make sure you keep us posted on that!

..and dont listen to the little voice in your head!!
When HepC is involved, ALWAYS listen to the voice in your head.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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When HepC is involved, ALWAYS listen to the voice in your head.
I completely forgot about that. Uggggg. There went that fantasy.

If I book this though, Everyone I have ever met in my life will be getting an e-mail with a pic on it.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The Problem apparently is that the bodyshop waited to submit thier supplemental. I talked to the insurance company, all is well. This final supplemental is like 3500 dollars, not 23,000. I will just have to wait.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stan
Why haven't you been checking up on things - months have gone by? Take some responsibility!

Stan you can't miss an opportunity for a personal attack on me. Simply amazing!! Congrats, you are 100%

AS for checking up, what do you think I was doing? No one told me the car was finished, I kept hearing that they were waiting on a part, waiting on a part. That is why I drove out there to look at it and see this mysterious part, which btw I was told was several different thing from 2 different people. If driving to see a car's progress isn't the DEFINITION of checking up, I don't know what is.

I called the insurance the other day, and they told me I could pick up my car when it was finished there was no reason to hold it.

I have been calling the body shop 1 to 2 times per week to check up... I think I would know better than you. And as was stated earlier, the insurance has already determined THAT I WAS NOT AT FAULT. This whole situation was a result of me being proactive and not wanting to wait
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Okay so here is the story with my car. I am more than a little upset about this.

As many of you know my car was damaged and has been out of comission since July 4th. It went into the shop, advanced collision technologies in Torrence CA.

Anyway, I have begun to grow impatient with the wait, and the line we are waiting for parts.... Yesterday I went to the repair place and asked to see my car. It is completely repaired. I was told that the repairs had just been finished 20 minutes before I arrived. I was a little suspect of the answer though as there was 30 pounds of dust all over every inch of my car.

The service man there had told me that he was waiting for some paperwork and that it would be fine to pick up tomorrow (which of course is today). I was suspicious that my car had been repaired for a while and it was being held as collateral against the insurance company to make sure that they kept paying for a loaner cor for me so that the body shop would get thier check.

I went back today, and spoke with a person there who understood that I was going to pick the car up this afternoon. I arrived at around 5:00 pm and was told they would not release the car to me. Apparently they had not gotten approval on the final supplemental insurance adjustment and could not release the car to me without a final bill.

My reaction to this was one of complete frustration. They cost of the parts is well know, and I don't see how this is taking so F-ing long. The suplemental should have been handled a long time ago, and the total cost of repairs to my car now stands at 22,000 and change plus the aditional 3 to 4 thousand of rental car that has been covered.

I must say that I am very angry about this situation and feel as though I am being manipulated by the body shop to make sure thye get thier money. For clarification, the other person's insurance is paying for everything, so they don't care if I am satisfied or not. The best I can figure is that the body shop is contecnt to let Enterprise keep charging a daily rental fee to make sure they get the "paperwork" finalized. I feel completely manipulated and they told me that if the insurance company refuses to pay for the asjustment, I will be responsible, and unless I pay it, they STILL WON'T RELEASE THE CAR TO ME!! Hopefully I will get the car tomorrow, but something tells me that the estimator/and paperwork and everything else will prevent me from taking posession of MY car again tomorrow.

I am wondering if anyone knows anything about the laws that may apply to this kind of case. The work is done, it is NOT my liability, and they are holding my property hostage.


The good news is that I am auditioning for a role on Pamela Anderson's new show STACKED tomorrow. That will be quite rewarding, and beyond every young adolescent's fantasy if I get to work with her.
I know you said that THEIR insurance is paying BUT....Contact YOUR insurance. They will cover the difference....You will pay your deductable now....Then your insurance company will go their insurance company and get your money back....ALL of it......

The beauty in this is you will be driving your car in a day or two...

Let the big guys fight it out.

I was in the same situation about three years ago. My insurance State Farm corrected the issue as I described above in one week.

P
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mean TT
how can it be legal for a individual (corporation) to hold property titled to me, without my consent, for a compensation issue that I am not responsible for.
Well, actually you are responsible for the costs of the repairs. You took the car to the body shop and authorized them to work on it. The person that caused the damage is responsible to reimburse you for the costs. The insurance company is responsible to reimburse the guy they insured (which isn't you). Read that all again. Most people think the insurance company owes you, but legally they do not. The body shops work with the insurance companies for convenience of their customers. It appears that the insurance company is paying for the damages to the body shop, but in reality it's passing through everybody's hands.

One other red flag to wave in front of the other guy's insurance company that may appear to be dragging their feet, is the possibility of claiming diminished value. The Lotus is not just any old car, and by being wrecked and repaired, it's value has been diminished - you won't be able to sell it for as much as you could have prior to it being wrecked. That could result in several thousand dollars more being added to the claim, and sometimes that is enough of a threat to speed things up a bit. Don't threaten, just state the facts, and that you are considering discussing the delays and other options with your lawyer...
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Sounds like a mechanic's lien. It's funny becuase I'm working on a construction lien this afternoon. Not funny for you though...
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