Tilting Clam in the Worx - Page 20 - LotusTalk

Smoky · 07-23-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perryeyges

Are you kidding?

Do you go to Sears and ask to open a box so you can see the instructions?

Sure, why not? It's just common sense to attempt as much research as possible before forking over handfuls of cash.

Maybe this fellow isn't mechanically inclined, and wants to test whether or not he can do the install himself. Or perhaps he has a several local installers in-mind to do the work for him, but they need some sense of the labor involved before they can give him a quote? Dozens of reasons make this a sensible request.

Just because YOU felt like you suffered (your post suggests this...otherwise why would you feel like sharing knowledge should cost everyone, unless it cost you something in terms of time or money?) shouldn't prevent others from obtaining info.

perryeyges · 07-23-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky

Sure, why not? It's just common sense to attempt as much research as possible before forking over handfuls of cash.

Maybe this fellow isn't mechanically inclined, and wants to test whether or not he can do the install himself. Or perhaps he has a several local installers in-mind to do the work for him, but they need some sense of the labor involved before they can give him a quote? Dozens of reasons make this a sensible request.

Just because YOU felt like you suffered (your post suggests this...otherwise why would you feel like sharing knowledge should cost everyone, unless it cost you something in terms of time or money?).

Point well taken..

ZAMMY1 · 07-23-2008, 03:50 PM

stuff it perry.
there's no question about the quality, workmanship or phil's respectability.
i still don't know what the install looks like, the effort needed to open it up and close it up.
how much/many fasteners must be disconnected to open/close it?
what is the time required to open/close it?
maybe a grand is chump change to you; to me, it isn't.
the decision is not whether it is a good deal, the decision is whether i really want to do it.
whether it is worth it TO ME.
is it like popping the hood on my subaru? no, not quite.
have there been pictures of the individual fasteners and locations?
point me to them, i've read about the entire thread with interest and admiration, but must have missed them.
the install instructions would probably show them.
sam

LordZ · 07-23-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

stuff it perry.
there's no question about the quality, workmanship or phil's respectability.
i still don't know what the install looks like, the effort needed to open it up and close it up.
how much/many fasteners must be disconnected to open/close it?
what is the time required to open/close it?
maybe a grand is chump change to you; to me, it isn't.
the decision is not whether it is a good deal, the decision is whether i really want to do it.
whether it is worth it TO ME.
is it like popping the hood on my subaru? no, not quite.
have there been pictures of the individual fasteners and locations?
point me to them, i've read about the entire thread with interest and admiration, but must have missed them.
the install instructions would probably show them.
sam

I can answer that for the Exige..

Install is in the previous posts, there is nothing to it other than the hinges you see in all our pictures.

Two people to lift and tilt

8 large thumbscrews to undo, two hex bolts (instructions don't show them either btw)

Probably 20-30mins to tilt on the Exige, a few extra things to unbolt, and lets face it, i'm not going to do a speed drill and risk crossthreading these alum bolts on the chasis.

To be honest the instructions won't help you much at all unless you have already removed your rear clam before.

ZAMMY1 · 07-23-2008, 04:06 PM

thanks, lordz.
good information.
i think you understand my questions.
sam

LordZ · 07-23-2008, 04:18 PM

np, I understand. But I also understand Phil possibly not wanting to release beta instructions.

The kit is worth the money if you are looking at messing around with the motor in the future, adding a SC, changing clutches, pulling the motor, changing headers, etc. Makes working on it 100X easier.

At this point in time you are either for being a beta tester, or you should wait for the final kit to be released after all of our feedback gets to Phil and sorted.

If Phil wants us to, I'm sure any of us will be happy to take pictures of the lockdown locations and what is involved to actually tilt. But right now I'm considering myself being under a NDA and don't want to release too much info unless cleared through Phil first.

turbophil · 07-23-2008, 09:51 PM

Hey Guys,

First and foremost, thanks for the support. Captain and Ted congrats on getting the system installed!

I'm not offended by Zammy's request and I would have responded earlier had I not been in a marathon meeting this evening...

I think the first run on the instructions was decent, but they do need a little work and thanks to the first 15 for giving me some feedback so that I can make some amendments for future installers.

I'm just a touch guarded about sending the instructions out to the masses as I've already had warnings about those that want to knock the kit off (Not the "big 3" though, so no drama there

)... We worked our tails off making these things and I guess the "it's my baby" aspect hasn't quite worn off just yet

.
As many know, anything that we make is done out of pure enjoyment of working with our hands and 'chinery along with my enthusiasm for the marque. We simply hope to cover our expenses and make small profit to help pay for motorsports. This business is not the bread and butter, and producing a quality part and standing behind it is paramount to us. The vendors and fellow enthusiasts/friends that carry or have purchased the stuff we make will vouch for that... I'm happy to visit on the phone or via email about any specific questions if you're truly interested in purchasing the kit. Once-more, if you buy the system and don't like it, send it back. No hard feelings...well maybe a little

, but I'll still give you a refund. It's just not the big of a deal and certainly not worth getting in a tussle over...

Regarding fasteners. I did mention in a previous post that the we stuck with a very Colin Chapman type solution utilizing thumb bolts to secure the clam down. There are some additional modifications we make to them but they're otherwise quite simple. WE use OEM grade nylock nuts where needed and metric CAD plated flanged bolts in places where bolts are used. There are a total of 4 holes drilled in the clam and aside from those 4 holes, everything can be returned to stock. As others have mentioned, installation is not hard, it's just time consuming. No special tools needed.

Operation. As I've mentioned, the operation is good and smooth, but the clam is not designed to be opened every time you check the oil. Open the clam in a controlled environment, out of the wind, et cetera. It takes just a couple minutes from soup to nuts to tilt the clam on the Elise and 20-30 minutes to get the clam up on an Exige. We know the latter thank to LordZ, as he took the plunge and figured out how to install the system to his Exige

. I'll incorporate his Exige specific instructions to the manual along with a few suggestions from the Elise crew... Thanks guys

I hope that helps to clear things up. I personally think it's a super fun mod and I use my hinge system ALL THE TIME--probably more than I should, but it just makes everything so darn accessible!

Best,

Phil

Baysailor · 07-24-2008, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbophil

There are a total of 4 holes drilled in the clam and aside from those 4 holes, everything can be returned to stock. As others have mentioned, installation is not hard, it's just time consuming. No special tools needed.

I helped The Captain install his hinge kit this past weekend and thought I would elaborate on the 4 holes TurboPhil mentions. His "4 holes drilled in the clam" he mentioned above sounds kind of ominous, but the reality is, these are only four small holes drilled in the bottom of the trunk. They are for the four bolts that secure the clam to the hinges. Nothing to them and very easily filled and forgotten if anyone ever decides to remove the kit.

knucklehead · 07-24-2008, 10:38 AM

Phil,
The kit looks awesome. Great work

slaughtr · 07-24-2008, 10:45 AM

Ok, sorry for this, but rather than read through pages of stuff...

What's the cost of the kit again?

turbophil · 07-24-2008, 11:02 AM

Hey Ronnie,

I haven't nailed down the final pricing for the non-beta kit, but it will be just north of a grand... It kind of depends how much interest remains. The bigger batch I can make the better I feel about keeping the price down...

Best,

Phil

slaughtr · 07-24-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbophil

Hey Ronnie,

I haven't nailed down the final pricing for the non-beta kit, but it will be just north of a grand... It kind of depends how much interest remains. The bigger batch I can make the better I feel about keeping the price down...

Best,

Phil

Thanks Phil.

Hey, I'm going to PM you on another matter.

valmont · 07-24-2008, 02:38 PM

Hello everybody ! (excuse me for my very bad english....)

A Best regard from France and many thank to Phil project pictures

!!!

Big respect to your marvelous "rear clamshell removing", Turbophil !!!!! It's super ingenius idea !!!!!

.... But I have few old pictures to shaw your my speedster project, with many détails (page 1, 2, 3, 4...), on the french forum post-link (Garage111.com) :

it's just my "Speedster Gulf GM" front clamshell-removing ! ;-)

Garage111.com - Forum Lotus Elise, Lotus Exige, Opel Speedster et dérivés. / Valmont concrétise son rêve!

But PHil,... I have and idea :

If you give me your "rear solution removing", I give you me French "front solution removing", to complet your project ! LoL ! :-D

... Of course, it's a joke ;-)

Best regard from Paris

Valmont !

milehitom · 07-24-2008, 03:10 PM

Bravo, Valmont! Your mod and Turbophil's should get together.

Tom

knucklehead · 07-24-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valmont

Hello everybody ! (excuse me for my very bad english....)

A Best regard from France and many thank to Phil project pictures

!!!

Big respect to your marvelous "rear clamshell removing", Turbophil !!!!! It's super ingenius idea !!!!!

.... But I have few old pictures to shaw your my speedster project, with many détails (page 1, 2, 3, 4...), on the french forum post-link (Garage111.com) :

it's just my "Speedster Gulf GM" front clamshell-removing ! ;-)

Garage111.com - Forum Lotus Elise, Lotus Exige, Opel Speedster et dérivés. / Valmont concrétise son rêve!

But PHil,... I have and idea :

If you give me your "rear solution removing", I give you me French "front solution removing", to complet your project ! LoL ! :-D

... Of course, it's a joke ;-)

Best regard from Paris

Valmont !

Valmont,
That's the coolest Opel I've ever seen

turbophil · 07-24-2008, 03:37 PM

Yep, excellent job

Great looking Opel indeed, well done!!!

Best,

Phil

valmont · 07-24-2008, 06:18 PM

"Merci" (big thank) Phil and all.... I'm agry with you Tom

This picture of my Speedster GM is not the best (she's hold), but it's just a first version to shaw you some part's of my car and his "removing front clam" ! Lol ! ;-)

Phil, in all french Lotus-Speedster forums, you are a sort of "star", because you have made this fabulouse "Elise-Exige" version, like a Ford GT40 style rear Clamshell ! And We love your production !!!!!! :-D

Houps ! I go to sleep quickly...because in France it's 3H16 of the morning !!!!!!

At tomorrow !!!!

Good night (or day for you) american's friends

Valmont !

valmont · 07-24-2008, 06:56 PM

This pictures are more better !

knucklehead · 07-24-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valmont

This pictures are more better !

Frank,
What are your side skirts made of and if I may ask where did you get them?

valmont · 07-25-2008, 04:59 AM

My skirts are made by myself in fiber paint (a sort of 6 cm angle plastic), ultra light but very rigid. It can very easily removable in 20 seconds, to lift the car very quickly with 5 Torx !

This 2 skirts are very interesting for aérodynamics effects in the endplates to limit the free air ! Lotus started ground-effect revolution in 1977 with a car that carried stubby side wings, the enplates of which were sealed to track for maximum effect. The Lotus 78's wing-section pods were shaped with the ground in mind but would also have worked infree air. Similiray, the opération of front wing can be enhanced through ground-effect; an underwing works purely through interaction with the ground and consequently would not fonction in free air.

The underbody shaped and the two Shirts achieve negative pressure effect below the car. If flow accelerates, it's pressure reduces; this is the essence of the "venturi effect" principle.

The rear diffuser is ultimately responsible for the attraction of a low-pressure area underneath the car. It draws in air to fill its volume - nature abhors a vacuum.

The general flow pattern around the moving car ensures that diffuser fills from the front and discharges beneath the wake region... Of course, the negative pressure in the diffuser would tail off rapidly as the air decelerated back towards road speed.

The two skirts reduces wake pressure, increasing base drag but at the same time making the diffuser work better

(Hum ! I hope that my english are not so bad, for explain this technical part !!!!)

Franck / Valmont

07-23-2008, 03:50 PM	#383 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,197	stuff it perry. there's no question about the quality, workmanship or phil's respectability. i still don't know what the install looks like, the effort needed to open it up and close it up. how much/many fasteners must be disconnected to open/close it? what is the time required to open/close it? maybe a grand is chump change to you; to me, it isn't. the decision is not whether it is a good deal, the decision is whether i really want to do it. whether it is worth it TO ME. is it like popping the hood on my subaru? no, not quite. have there been pictures of the individual fasteners and locations? point me to them, i've read about the entire thread with interest and admiration, but must have missed them. the install instructions would probably show them. sam __________________ Sam Mayberry, W3CYO/R, resident curmudgeon. aspen white '06 elise. youtube: sam's jet turbine scooter

07-23-2008, 04:06 PM	#385 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,197	thanks, lordz. good information. i think you understand my questions. sam __________________ Sam Mayberry, W3CYO/R, resident curmudgeon. aspen white '06 elise. youtube: sam's jet turbine scooter

07-23-2008, 09:51 PM	#387 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 1,609 Images: 3	Hey Guys, First and foremost, thanks for the support. Captain and Ted congrats on getting the system installed! I'm not offended by Zammy's request and I would have responded earlier had I not been in a marathon meeting this evening... I think the first run on the instructions was decent, but they do need a little work and thanks to the first 15 for giving me some feedback so that I can make some amendments for future installers. I'm just a touch guarded about sending the instructions out to the masses as I've already had warnings about those that want to knock the kit off (Not the "big 3" though, so no drama there)... We worked our tails off making these things and I guess the "it's my baby" aspect hasn't quite worn off just yet. As many know, anything that we make is done out of pure enjoyment of working with our hands and 'chinery along with my enthusiasm for the marque. We simply hope to cover our expenses and make small profit to help pay for motorsports. This business is not the bread and butter, and producing a quality part and standing behind it is paramount to us. The vendors and fellow enthusiasts/friends that carry or have purchased the stuff we make will vouch for that... I'm happy to visit on the phone or via email about any specific questions if you're truly interested in purchasing the kit. Once-more, if you buy the system and don't like it, send it back. No hard feelings...well maybe a little, but I'll still give you a refund. It's just not the big of a deal and certainly not worth getting in a tussle over... Regarding fasteners. I did mention in a previous post that the we stuck with a very Colin Chapman type solution utilizing thumb bolts to secure the clam down. There are some additional modifications we make to them but they're otherwise quite simple. WE use OEM grade nylock nuts where needed and metric CAD plated flanged bolts in places where bolts are used. There are a total of 4 holes drilled in the clam and aside from those 4 holes, everything can be returned to stock. As others have mentioned, installation is not hard, it's just time consuming. No special tools needed. Operation. As I've mentioned, the operation is good and smooth, but the clam is not designed to be opened every time you check the oil. Open the clam in a controlled environment, out of the wind, et cetera. It takes just a couple minutes from soup to nuts to tilt the clam on the Elise and 20-30 minutes to get the clam up on an Exige. We know the latter thank to LordZ, as he took the plunge and figured out how to install the system to his Exige. I'll incorporate his Exige specific instructions to the manual along with a few suggestions from the Elise crew... Thanks guys I hope that helps to clear things up. I personally think it's a super fun mod and I use my hinge system ALL THE TIME--probably more than I should, but it just makes everything so darn accessible! Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 275whp/175wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 11/09/08* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing at all...

07-24-2008, 10:38 AM	#389 (permalink)
knucklehead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Marina del Rey, CA Posts: 2,978	Phil, The kit looks awesome. Great work __________________ Jacob Join Lotuscar.ning.com for LA Lotus social events 05 Exise, 2bular 6 inch exhaust. BWR double adjustable Penske shocks, Hypercoil springs, HIDs, BWR front sway bar, Light weight PC680 battery w/BWR brace, BWR Black badges and wheel centers, Custom SCC paint job, SCC OEM Exige mesh kit and Exige rear clam details, LSD, Lotus sport clutch and light weight fly wheel. Sector front splitter. Stebel horn. Multivex Mirrors. Volk CE28 wheels

07-24-2008, 10:45 AM	#390 (permalink)
slaughtr That's not my cone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 5,169 Images: 1	Ok, sorry for this, but rather than read through pages of stuff... What's the cost of the kit again? __________________ My car both sucks and blows. Now with added all natural smoky goodness!

07-23-2008, 04:18 PM	#386 (permalink)
LordZ 06 SY Exige Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 593	np, I understand. But I also understand Phil possibly not wanting to release beta instructions. The kit is worth the money if you are looking at messing around with the motor in the future, adding a SC, changing clutches, pulling the motor, changing headers, etc. Makes working on it 100X easier. At this point in time you are either for being a beta tester, or you should wait for the final kit to be released after all of our feedback gets to Phil and sorted. If Phil wants us to, I'm sure any of us will be happy to take pictures of the lockdown locations and what is involved to actually tilt. But right now I'm considering myself being under a NDA and don't want to release too much info unless cleared through Phil first.

07-24-2008, 11:02 AM	#391 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 1,609 Images: 3	Hey Ronnie, I haven't nailed down the final pricing for the non-beta kit, but it will be just north of a grand... It kind of depends how much interest remains. The bigger batch I can make the better I feel about keeping the price down... Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 275whp/175wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 11/09/08* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing at all...

07-24-2008, 02:38 PM	#393 (permalink)
valmont Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris in France Posts: 12	Hello everybody ! (excuse me for my very bad english....) A Best regard from France and many thank to Phil project pictures !!! Big respect to your marvelous "rear clamshell removing", Turbophil !!!!! It's super ingenius idea !!!!! .... But I have few old pictures to shaw your my speedster project, with many détails (page 1, 2, 3, 4...), on the french forum post-link (Garage111.com) : it's just my "Speedster Gulf GM" front clamshell-removing ! ;-) Garage111.com - Forum Lotus Elise, Lotus Exige, Opel Speedster et dérivés. / Valmont concrétise son rêve! But PHil,... I have and idea : If you give me your "rear solution removing", I give you me French "front solution removing", to complet your project ! LoL ! :-D ... Of course, it's a joke ;-) Best regard from Paris Valmont ! Last edited by valmont : 07-24-2008 at 03:11 PM.

07-24-2008, 03:10 PM	#394 (permalink)
milehitom Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,602	Bravo, Valmont! Your mod and Turbophil's should get together. Tom Attached Images

07-24-2008, 03:37 PM	#396 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 1,609 Images: 3	Yep, excellent job Great looking Opel indeed, well done!!! Best, Phil __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 275whp/175wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 11/09/08* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing at all...

07-24-2008, 06:18 PM	#397 (permalink)
valmont Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris in France Posts: 12	"Merci" (big thank) Phil and all.... I'm agry with you Tom This picture of my Speedster GM is not the best (she's hold), but it's just a first version to shaw you some part's of my car and his "removing front clam" ! Lol ! ;-) Phil, in all french Lotus-Speedster forums, you are a sort of "star", because you have made this fabulouse "Elise-Exige" version, like a Ford GT40 style rear Clamshell ! And We love your production !!!!!! :-D Houps ! I go to sleep quickly...because in France it's 3H16 of the morning !!!!!! At tomorrow !!!! Good night (or day for you) american's friends Valmont ! Last edited by valmont : 07-24-2008 at 06:30 PM.

07-24-2008, 06:56 PM	#398 (permalink)
valmont Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris in France Posts: 12	This pictures are more better ! Franck DeCloquement's Photos \| Facebook Franck DeCloquement's Photos \| Facebook Franck DeCloquement's Photos \| Facebook Franck DeCloquement's Photos \| Facebook Franck DeCloquement's Photos \| Facebook Last edited by valmont : 07-24-2008 at 07:01 PM.

07-25-2008, 04:59 AM	#400 (permalink)
valmont Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris in France Posts: 12	My skirts are made by myself in fiber paint (a sort of 6 cm angle plastic), ultra light but very rigid. It can very easily removable in 20 seconds, to lift the car very quickly with 5 Torx ! This 2 skirts are very interesting for aérodynamics effects in the endplates to limit the free air ! Lotus started ground-effect revolution in 1977 with a car that carried stubby side wings, the enplates of which were sealed to track for maximum effect. The Lotus 78's wing-section pods were shaped with the ground in mind but would also have worked infree air. Similiray, the opération of front wing can be enhanced through ground-effect; an underwing works purely through interaction with the ground and consequently would not fonction in free air. The underbody shaped and the two Shirts achieve negative pressure effect below the car. If flow accelerates, it's pressure reduces; this is the essence of the "venturi effect" principle. The rear diffuser is ultimately responsible for the attraction of a low-pressure area underneath the car. It draws in air to fill its volume - nature abhors a vacuum. The general flow pattern around the moving car ensures that diffuser fills from the front and discharges beneath the wake region... Of course, the negative pressure in the diffuser would tail off rapidly as the air decelerated back towards road speed. The two skirts reduces wake pressure, increasing base drag but at the same time making the diffuser work better (Hum ! I hope that my english are not so bad, for explain this technical part !!!!) Franck / Valmont Last edited by valmont : 07-25-2008 at 05:25 AM.

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