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Old 11-23-2010, 08:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agirls View Post
Question, technically, the engine can be rebuilt unless the cylinder liners are damaged or the block is damaged, right?
yes, it can be fixed. but here in Thailand, 2zz engine is very cheap and very easy to find. because we got a lot of engines from japan.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
Is the OP's car FI or NA? Was it on R comps or street tires?
it's Na and I'm running AD08 tyre.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Are you considering upgrading the engine internals, forged pistons, circuitworx oil pump gears..etc.?
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Just to clarify, problem sounds like you dropped a valve which damaged cam/piston? You need to have dealer find all the "missing" parts and/or they will need to flush the oil lines to the front oil cooler.

New (not rebuilt) 2ZZ short block is about $1600 (US), new 2ZZ head/valves/cams about $600 (US), I'd recommend you replace the stock valves and valve springs with something better (like SuperTech). Sounds like you'll need to pay for labor install also, so factor those hourly rates in (on a good day I can swap a motor in about 4 hours by myself, probably less now and NA is even easier). Also replace the stock oil pan with a Moroso or equivalent oil pan -- if you plan to track the car more.

You're just one of many many many folks that have had this problem with valves in a stock 2ZZ motor -- makes no difference if it's NA or FI.

On engine #2 (I'm on engine #3 right now with engine #4 in the planning stages), I dropped a valve on the street at 7900 rpm just accelerating straight. This failure prompted me to get in contact with Toyota - 7800 rpm is the rev limit for the 2ZZ on stock internals, don't know where Lotus got 8500 rpm from -- perhaps because the motor used to have a rev limit of 8400 rpm in earlier years until numerous valve problems were reported (and the irony is that Toyota could make the same amount of power out of the motor running to 7800 rpm as they could running it to 8400 rpm).

Rob
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Just to clarify, problem sounds like you dropped a valve which damaged cam/piston? You need to have dealer find all the "missing" parts and/or they will need to flush the oil lines to the front oil cooler.

New (not rebuilt) 2ZZ short block is about $1600 (US), new 2ZZ head/valves/cams about $600 (US), I'd recommend you replace the stock valves and valve springs with something better (like SuperTech). Sounds like you'll need to pay for labor install also, so factor those hourly rates in (on a good day I can swap a motor in about 4 hours by myself, probably less now and NA is even easier). Also replace the stock oil pan with a Moroso or equivalent oil pan -- if you plan to track the car more.

You're just one of many many many folks that have had this problem with valves in a stock 2ZZ motor -- makes no difference if it's NA or FI.

On engine #2 (I'm on engine #3 right now with engine #4 in the planning stages), I dropped a valve on the street at 7900 rpm just accelerating straight. This failure prompted me to get in contact with Toyota - 7800 rpm is the rev limit for the 2ZZ on stock internals, don't know where Lotus got 8500 rpm from -- perhaps because the motor used to have a rev limit of 8400 rpm in earlier years until numerous valve problems were reported (and the irony is that Toyota could make the same amount of power out of the motor running to 7800 rpm as they could running it to 8400 rpm).

Rob
Scary stuff, I wonder what the % of engines have failed from street and light track duty.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:17 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There are still many Lotus drivers that never post here that I meet at the track that have gone thru the same valve problems ... if I were to hazard a "guess", about 50% of the Lotus folks I know (but those are mostly all track drivers).

I'm not trying to bag on Lotus, but my Exige S has been the least track reliable car "out of the box" from any of my prior street/track cars (from Mustangs to Vette to STi). Which is sorta Ironic given the magazines seem to believe otherwise ... perhaps they just don't drive it with the same level of "enthusiasm"

Of course it can be made track reliable (for not too much money), and engine #2 is the place to start that.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by robains View Post
Just to clarify, problem sounds like you dropped a valve which damaged cam/piston? You need to have dealer find all the "missing" parts and/or they will need to flush the oil lines to the front oil cooler.

New (not rebuilt) 2ZZ short block is about $1600 (US), new 2ZZ head/valves/cams about $600 (US), I'd recommend you replace the stock valves and valve springs with something better (like SuperTech). Sounds like you'll need to pay for labor install also, so factor those hourly rates in (on a good day I can swap a motor in about 4 hours by myself, probably less now and NA is even easier). Also replace the stock oil pan with a Moroso or equivalent oil pan -- if you plan to track the car more.

You're just one of many many many folks that have had this problem with valves in a stock 2ZZ motor -- makes no difference if it's NA or FI.

On engine #2 (I'm on engine #3 right now with engine #4 in the planning stages), I dropped a valve on the street at 7900 rpm just accelerating straight. This failure prompted me to get in contact with Toyota - 7800 rpm is the rev limit for the 2ZZ on stock internals, don't know where Lotus got 8500 rpm from -- perhaps because the motor used to have a rev limit of 8400 rpm in earlier years until numerous valve problems were reported (and the irony is that Toyota could make the same amount of power out of the motor running to 7800 rpm as they could running it to 8400 rpm).

Rob
so that's mean, my new engine from the celica will not make it to 8400rpm like the old one? what about the cam switch point? still at the 6200? or it all just about the ECU setting? do I need to reflash the ecu after the swap?

to be honest, this make me a little nervous. it's my first engine swap. never wish that one day, Ill have to experience it.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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the rev limit and cam switch are determined by the ECU, and no, you dont need to flash the ecu after the swap.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:28 AM   #28 (permalink)
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If its me, I will consider using K20, F20 or F22 Honda...then use AEM Ems ecu (plug & play).
It will be a big project though. Novice need not to apply.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:16 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Just curious, how much would it cost labor+parts @ dealer here in US for a new engine
swap, i had seen prices ranging in 10k+ sometime ago in one of these threads...

If the engine can't handle 8000+ rpm, maybe we should bring the redline below that
especially if it does not make a big performance diffrence on stock anyways? or am I
missing something here?
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cemaykan View Post
Just curious, how much would it cost labor+parts @ dealer here in US for a new engine
swap, i had seen prices ranging in 10k+ sometime ago in one of these threads...

If the engine can't handle 8000+ rpm, maybe we should bring the redline below that
especially if it does not make a big performance diffrence on stock anyways? or am I
missing something here?
No reason to bring the engine anywhere near the red line, the HP and torque end at just about 7800 rpm. Save your engine. Just invest in a BOE swirl pot and a morroso or sector 111 oil pan. If your careful you will have many track miles on a stock motor.

I know I will get lots of "noise" on this. Sorry guys, I have Mustang Dyno report that proves otherwise......even with my Charlie X tune and other "goodies" on my engine. And after 6000 track miles this year, my engine is still running strong. Keep it below 8K, all the time.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Thx for the info...

>>Keep it below 8K, all the time

I am track rookie, so sometimes with the adrenaline running, its hard to notice
exactly what RPM i am on... is there any easy way to change the ECU redline to
help save the engine...

Side note:The reason i am asking this, as a rookie, i am not putting in qualifier laps and just
trying to learn the track, car and my not so good talent,,, 1 less then thing to worry about
will help me focus on improving my skill...
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:53 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cemaykan View Post
Thx for the info...

>>Keep it below 8K, all the time

I am track rookie, so sometimes with the adrenaline running, its hard to notice
exactly what RPM i am on... is there any easy way to change the ECU redline to
help save the engine...

Side note:The reason i am asking this, as a rookie, i am not putting in qualifier laps and just
trying to learn the track, car and my not so good talent,,, 1 less then thing to worry about
will help me focus on improving my skill...
shift light is your answer, I guess.

I always thought that I should shift when the red LED light comes on.
most of the time in the track, I was in 2nd gear and drag it until 8,200 rpm.
may be that's why I blown my engine.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:55 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Keeping it below 8k screws up the powerband on the upshift, even with variable cam switch Gearing is not optimal for that
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Keeping it below 8k screws up the powerband on the upshift, even with variable cam switch Gearing is not optimal for that
Really? That's interesting........ are we talking about street driving or on the track?
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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During autox, I occasionally hit the rev limiter for a few secs in 2nd gear. This will certainly change my strategy (and paranoia) about watching rpm more carefully. I bought the Lotus for the reliability on the eng and trans, guess that was wrong.

Rob
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:40 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Notes like this has motivated me to get in on the gPAN group buy -- we are at 20 which means the full discount has been achieved. Those on this thread may want to check it out.

S111 gPAN Group Buy!!!
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