Weight

[Kaliuzhkin]

According to Road & Track (September 1997), the non-legal Elise weighed 1635lbs.

The current models weigh about 2000 lbs., 25% more. Why the increase?

Other statistics: 0-60, down 16%; top speed, up 19%; number of gears, up 20%.

[orno]

De s1 weighs even less about 1430lbs

There is serious nothing in the s1, the only thing we got is a radio with cd but that's it! No airbags, no other crap options.. just a plain go kart!

[MickOpalak]

Right, the series 1 cars have no power brakes or ABS, no A/C, a lighter engine, no starter button, a different rear subframe, smaller wheels and the early ones had very light weight composite brake rotors. I don't even think they have power locks.

[orno]

I have ceramic brakes though.. (This is only in the first production models of the s1 ) So no ABS needed

[Bender Rodríguez]

What about the UK S2? 2001+ my understanding is thats in the very low 1700lb range?

[Darkside]

2000 lbs is still very low for what it is.

[Bender Rodríguez]

Originally Posted by Darkside

2000 lbs is still very low for what it is.

Yeah I agree but there is always a better mouse trap, does anyone have an decent breakdown of where it comes from at least compared to the UK S2?

[LoathUS]

Originally Posted by Darkside

2000 lbs is still very low for what it is.

Yeah really. There is weight there for a reason as well. If people are hell bent of weight for a street car, why not just get a bike? I can understand racing, where every pound means something.

[SweetDaddyD]

They probably didn't have the goofy emergency trunk release either. That must be good for at least 2 ounces.

[lotusport]

Originally Posted by Darkside

2000 lbs is still very low for what it is.

Originally Posted by Bender Rodríguez

Yeah I agree but there is always a better mouse trap, does anyone have an decent breakdown of where it comes from at least compared to the UK S2?

The European S.2 still had the Rover K-series engine -- very lightweight, even compared to the 2ZZ-GE -- and a smaller, lighter subframe, different trans, different exhaust, different A/C, and so on. And don't forget the things that had to be included for our cars to pass U.S. DOT and EPA requirements: front crash structure, side intrusion beams in the door and reinforcement of the hinge/latch mountings, redesigned fuel tank and filler with isolation from the body, etc., etc.

The early cars had nearly no amenities, thus were even more elemental than our U.S. federal cars. I've driven them on both track and street and would have one in an instant if they were legal, but now that I'm so used to the fed car (and supercharged -- woo hoo!)

I don't know when I'd drive one. I suspect that most of us would only have one for a track toy, to preserve the 'civilized' one for more frequent use.

[Bender Rodríguez]

Originally Posted by lotusport

The European S.2 still had the Rover K-series engine -- very lightweight, even compared to the 2ZZ-GE -- and a smaller, lighter subframe, different trans, different exhaust, different A/C, and so on. And don't forget the things that had to be included for our cars to pass U.S. DOT and EPA requirements: front crash structure, side intrusion beams in the door and reinforcement of the hinge/latch mountings, redesigned fuel tank and filler with isolation from the body, etc., etc.

The early cars had nearly no amenities, thus were even more elemental than our U.S. federal cars. .

No it’s a good point the UK S2 did have the rover K engine but there was a different crash structure, frame rails door hinges and more? Any idea how much weight came from any of the different categories, anyone tried to remove any of it in a tear down? How much weight was there in engine and trans? In my opinion the rest is a result of government regulations and possibly removable, save swapping out front crash structures

[Bavarian Motorist]

I don't like the idea of, "Well, 2000 lbs is still really low." So is 2300 lbs or 2400 lbs. Is that what we should expect to see Elises become?

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I don't like the idea of, "Well, 2000 lbs is still really low." So is 2300 lbs or 2400 lbs. Is that what we should expect to see Elises become?

...yes, to be sold in the uS, ...yes - unfortunatly!

also realize we are on the tail end of a cars evolution. so in a way - lotus has allready built the simple spartan elise, if you want one, get one of thoose (i konw its not that simple for US customers, but its a production reality) and lotus has gone onto other challanges. i.e. - how to build an elise that will sell past the ultra hard core crowd. - (suitable for mainstream production.)

so i think the federal car is a spot on compromise between spartan and marketable and federlized. defintaly could have gone worse (CA edition'ish) could have gone a little simplier - but heck 1/2 the people are/were complaining about how its too sprtan as is - so in that light, i think lotus hit the compromise spot on.

and i really do prefer the power brakes but could do without the abs.... and i didn't want A/C but i am learning to live with it. i like the knowledge i have door beams, and after seeings a few crashes i think the front structure is a good idea. i abhore the touring package, its a sign of the devil. i think the dash... while ok, ..i dunno - i would have liked it more 340r'ish simplier and lighter and more stylized. we have fancy federal glass and blinkers and such... blingy wheel sizes, i am a fan of the 111r powertrain, i think it works briliant as both jackle and hyde. certailly there is a good 40lbs of just "sheathing" all over the car now - which has made it more suitable as a real production car (bulkhead panles, wheel liners, engine bay liners, bla bla bla.) - i have a feeling the car would not have sold so well in the US - at that, or antything close, price point - with out thoose finishing (for lotus at least) touches.

[Bavarian Motorist]

If it remains status quo +/- 100 lbs (assume 100 lbs to accommodate possibly a new motor in the future, or FI, whatever) then that'd be great. I'd just hate to see Lotus assume the mentality of, "Well, you know, 2400 lbs ain't bad either!" At least not for the Elise/Exige.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

If it remains status quo +/- 100 lbs (assume 100 lbs to accommodate possibly a new motor in the future, or FI, whatever) then that'd be great. I'd just hate to see Lotus assume the mentality of, "Well, you know, 2400 lbs ain't bad either!" At least not for the Elise/Exige.

i tihnk lotus's mentality is more like

"to stay in business we need to grow and add new models and we need to sell more cars to pay for new models - so what do we do to sell more cars?"

..i agree with you though! but i don't think lotus "adds" things just for the sake of adding weight - i think they do that for the sake of adding sales #'s

well - the S3 elise should be on its wayher is a few... lets hope it stays @ 2k lbs!

if not - it will probably come around full circle in 10 years and the elise will be the middle car and they will introduce the "E&*!@" and it will be the "ultra spartan light weight, simple, small powertrain, lower HP car"

look around - everyone (well i know not everyone...) wants "more power" - and that comes at either great cost, or added weight. its what the market wants?!

how well would a 1,650lb 135hp elise sell in the us? especially if lotus had to invest $ to put it into production (thats is - it would not be all that cheaper)

[mikecronis]

I hate to say it, but wasn't the Rover-K engine a bit unreliable, as well as the 1-Series? I remember an old TopGear episode reviewing it. I think top-speed and acceleration was pretty poor, especially compared to the Series-2.

My British friends from the RAF said it was a real lemon. (albeit a collectible lemon IMHO)

You can lighten the Elise using the "diet" search on this forum if one is inclined. There's plenty of lightening still available to bring down the 1984 pounds, such as ultra-light rims, removing the AC, passenger seat, draining the washer-fluid, removing the entire wiper configuration, removing the side-mirrors and rear-view mirror, running no more than 1/3 tank of gas, removing the stereo and speakers, removing the rear plastic interior wall. You could really strip-down the whole ensemble and lose at least 200 pounds I suspect, and probably gain 2 tenths. If you have $$$ you could even replace everything plausible with CF and lose perhaps another 100 pounds or more.

[Bender Rodríguez]

and i really do prefer the power brakes but could do without the abs.... and i didn't want A/C but i am learning to live with it. i like the knowledge i have door beams, and after seeings a few crashes i think the front structure is a good idea. i abhore the touring package, its a sign of the devil. i think the dash... while ok, ..i dunno - i would have liked it more 340r'ish simplier and lighter and more stylized. we have fancy federal glass and blinkers and such... blingy wheel sizes, i am a fan of the 111r powertrain, i think it works briliant as both jackle and hyde. certailly there is a good 40lbs of just "sheathing" all over the car now - which has made it more suitable as a real production car (bulkhead panles, wheel liners, engine bay liners, bla bla bla.) - i have a feeling the car would not have sold so well in the US - at that, or antything close, price point - with out thoose finishing (for lotus at least) touches.[/quote]

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I understand the extra weight with add ons that come with features, I was only hoping to quantify the weight amount that comes with US standards for safety. Personally if that number is in excess of 50 lbs you can have it in my opinion, I don’t feel the US roads and drivers are any more of a danger to me (I could be wrong though). Having worked with some vehicle impacts and regulations it’s my opinion that a lot of US law if driven by emotion and ridiculous lawsuits. Heck I’m not even sure the Elise meets all safety standards if I remember looking up something I thought I saw a petition that lotus filed due to economic hardship the elise did not meet all of 201a or 201u specs, I’ld have to look it up again. Bu to your point 2000 lbs is quite impressive for what it does achieve. I know there are a couple of extremely light cars out there and I’m curious how they did it.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by Bender Rodríguez

I understand the extra weight with add ons that come with features, I was only hoping to quantify the weight amount that comes with US standards for safety. Personally if that number is in excess of 50 lbs you can have it in my opinion, I don’t feel the US roads and drivers are any more of a danger to me (I could be wrong though). Having worked with some vehicle impacts and regulations it’s my opinion that a lot of US law if driven by emotion and ridiculous lawsuits. Heck I’m not even sure the Elise meets all safety standards if I remember looking up something I thought I saw a petition that lotus filed due to economic hardship the elise did not meet all of 201a or 201u specs, I’ld have to look it up again. Bu to your point 2000 lbs is quite impressive for what it does achieve. I know there are a couple of extremely light cars out there and I’m curious how they did it. [/font][/size]

It is unfortunate that your opinion was not considered during the design/engineering of the cars.

They do meet all safety requirements. They pass the crash tests. There was an exemption for not meeting the 2.5mph bumber requirements and another for not meeting the head light pattern requirements. Neither of those things are likely to have much impact on occupant safety though.

xtn

[fzust]

I think they are addressing the hardcore folks with the 211. THey needed to expand in the US and in the US you MUST have the 3 A's: ABS, Airbags, and A/C. This expands their market, broadens appeal, and let's them sell more units.

[shay2nak]

well going from Rover to 2ZZ added 100 lbs for engine & transmission.

then add AC +25lbs, ABS, airbags, radio?. I've got a pie chart somewhere showing where the added weight came from.