Why is Tesla and Lotus the same?

[albert]

Hi guys... i am very confuse about why Tesla and Lotus are so similar. The interior is 90% same and tesla reflects many identical characteristic with Lotus... Are they a family or Tesla just copied Lotus?

[Simba]

They aren't. A Lotus is a fine sporting automobile. A Tesla is a gimmick designed to separate silly people from their money.

(The answer you're looking for is: Lotus builds the chassis and supplies most of the non-driveline running gear for the Tesla)

[smicker]

Tesla contracts with Lotus to build gliders engineered by Tesla and Lotus. The powertrain is then installed in California. Nearly all of the shared parts (about 7%) are in the cabin, which is what you readily see.

[chemo]

That is hilarious.

smb

[ANIMAL]

Originally Posted by Simba

A Tesla is a gimmick designed to separate silly people from their money.

Wait.... I thought that's what Priuses are for.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by chemo

That is hilarious.

smb

+1

[kestrel74]

[JWA]

Originally Posted by smicker

Tesla contracts with Lotus to build gliders engineered by Tesla and Lotus. The powertrain is then installed in California. Nearly all of the shared parts (about 7%) are in the cabin, which is what you readily see.

That sounds like a curious stat to me. Is the statement that 7% of the parts in a Tesla Roadster are shared with the Elise, or 7% of the Elise parts are present in the Tesla?

[smicker]

Originally Posted by JWA

That sounds like a curious stat to me. Is the statement that 7% of the parts in a Tesla Roadster are shared with the Elise, or 7% of the Elise parts are present in the Tesla?

Seven percent of the parts in the Roadster are shared with the Elise.

[AgentTripleX]

Apparently Tesla is working on sourcing their next chassis from Daimler and follow a similar process as they did with Lotus on the Roadster. I'm curious which one they'll end up with. It makes sense. R&D is a lot of money, time, and work. If you can start with a chassis you like, tweek it, make it electric, Viola! - there's your new car.

[albert]

I hate Tesla now hahaha feel like its copying Lotus!!!

[apk919]

Originally Posted by JWA

That sounds like a curious stat to me. Is the statement that 7% of the parts in a Tesla Roadster are shared with the Elise, or 7% of the Elise parts are present in the Tesla?

Originally Posted by smicker

Seven percent of the parts in the Roadster are shared with the Elise.

Is that 7% number calculated from an itemized parts list? Or is it based on weight, volume, or importance?

I'd say the fact that they share the aluminum subframe and most suspension pieces make the 7% number a bit misleading...

I wonder what "percentage" of pieces the VX220 has in common with the Elise?

[JWA]

Originally Posted by smicker

Seven percent of the parts in the Roadster are shared with the Elise.

Wow. You would think that they would almost have had to go out of their way to re-design lots of little internal panels, supports, and braces, and change to different nuts and bolts to achieve that. What would the point of that be? Certainly doesn't sound efficient or cost-effective. Or, is the statement related to the Elise model specifically? 7% are shared with the Elise, or 7% are shared with any Lotus? Being that the chassis is actually from the Europa, maybe that's the crux of the statement. And if they drill three different mounting holes in the Europa is that being counted as "not shared"?

[mrcarcrazy]

You guys all have it wrong, the reason its only 7% is because that's the stuff they couldn't paint green. All the other parts which look strangely familiar to an elise are painted green, so they are "unique" to that car alone.

[MattG]

Originally Posted by apk919

Is that 7% number calculated from an itemized parts list? Or is it based on weight, volume, or importance?

I'd say the fact that they share the aluminum subframe and most suspension pieces make the 7% number a bit misleading...

I also wonder if they're counting each of the ~6800 batteries separately. I've talked to some Tesla engineers, and they really seemed defensive about having any connection with Lotus, and really wanted to emphasize how it's very different and their own design. I wouldn't be surprised to see them use a part count strategy that worked in their favor (without technically lying).

[Frank Amoroso]

Originally Posted by JWA

That sounds like a curious stat to me. Is the statement that 7% of the parts in a Tesla Roadster are shared with the Elise, or 7% of the Elise parts are present in the Tesla?

Agreed, there certainly seems like a lot more than 7%. Perhaps they mean only 7% of the part numbers match? Things like the brake caliper and rotors, although similar to dimensionally exactly the same, are not the same (caliper doesn't say Lotus, rotor is a 5-bolt hub, etc. etc.). Lug bolts are the same though! Anyway, here are my thoughts on the Tesla, along with pics...

Will this BWR bar fit the Tesla? Oh yeah, my Tesla review for you LTers...

Originally Posted by AgentTripleX

Apparently Tesla is working on sourcing their next chassis from Daimler and follow a similar process as they did with Lotus on the Roadster. I'm curious which one they'll end up with. It makes sense. R&D is a lot of money, time, and work. If you can start with a chassis you like, tweek it, make it electric, Viola! - there's your new car.

Precisely. Wouldn't be the first time this has been done, nor will it be the last. Leverage is the name of the game for small volume 'manufacturers!

Originally Posted by albert

I hate Tesla now hahaha feel like its copying Lotus!!!

You're kidding right? You hate all the money Lotus is being paid for technical consulting, contract manufacturing, and increasing their economies of scale* such that shared parts (all *ahem* "7%" of 'em) will all have lower cost bases? I, for one(?), welcome it. The two vehicles would never seriously be cross-shopped, it does not dilute the brand IMO and it helps our favorite / economically frail little manufacturer maintain ongoing viabilty. Works for me.

*admittedly, the ~900 extra copies won't move the needle much in this example, but it beats a kick in the headlight.

[dfa2100]

Originally Posted by MattG

I also wonder if they're counting each of the ~6800 batteries separately. I've talked to some Tesla engineers, and they really seemed defensive about having any connection with Lotus, and really wanted to emphasize how it's very different and their own design. I wouldn't be surprised to see them use a part count strategy that worked in their favor (without technically lying).

I think what people forget is that doing something relatively small (though expensive) like lowering the door sills for the Tesla probably changed a whole lot of little parts down the line. Now all of the interior bits have to be changed slightly to fit the new door sills, the frame has just been changed, etc... causing the number of "unique" parts to go really high. But that doesn't mean that the cars are all that much different. Just that Tesla paid a lot of money to have Lotus change stupid little things that ended up causing the price of the Tesla to go up 30 grand from what it would have been otherwise.

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by albert

Hi guys... i am very confuse about why Tesla and Lotus are so similar. The interior is 90% same and tesla reflects many identical characteristic with Lotus... Are they a family or Tesla just copied Lotus?

It's a conspiracy.

[mrcarcrazy]

Originally Posted by fpitas

It's a conspiracy.

And I just threw out my foil hat. DAMN, gotta make a new one.

[...m...]

...tesla contracted lotus to supply a finished elise chassis for which they then contracted another supplier to provide an electric drivetrain, with final assembly (i think) done by tesla themselves in california...

...nothing at all wrong with that - they're providing a novel finished product which no other company is currently bringing to the consumer market - but most of the undertone of resentment stems from their marketing efforts to distinguish themselves as engineers despite the fact that very little of their engineering was done in-house...hence the seven percent shared content factoid, based on every superficially-tweaked elise part technically not being shared, despite more-or-less being the same part originally engineered by lotus, and likewise their drivetrain...

...it's analogous to one of my clients requesting that i move a door, shift a few rooms and windows here and there, and then selecting paint colors and claiming to have designed her own house, followed by a high-profile campaign advertising herself as an architect...to-date, tesla has substantially been a marketing company following the silicon valley dot-com template, and some of us can't resist the opportunity to point out the ephemeral nature of the emperor's finest regalia...

...i still think the tesla roadster is a very cool product, and hope for the sake of an underserved market and the impassioned people at tesla who sincerely support their efforts that they're able to transition to a genuinely productive business model, but their hype machine certainly gets in the way pretty often...