Road & Track

[dantank]

March issue of R&T has "Best All-around Spsorts Car" test. Elise comes in 4th behind Porsche Carrera S, Porsche Boxter S and the Corvette C6. 2nd only to the Carrera S in performance.

[Prolene]

Wow, beat the C6 in performance!

[rbullett]

Did the Elise lose points for ingress and egress and no luggage space? Did it gain points for price and fuel mileage?

[Eddie Haskell]

4th out of how many?

[MikeGalos]

Yeah but R&T (since they became part of Hachette) have never met a Porsche that they weren't willing bend the rules for. I've made it a rule to always ignore Porsche in anything they write.


(Don't believe me? Look back at their scoring criteria and notice all the weighting factors that just coincidentally favor whatever will give the Porsche more points)

[Vantage]

Since the title says "all-around" sports car, I'm guessing that's where the Elise loses. Scan anyone?

[dantank]

Here they are in order
1. Corvette C6
2. Porsche Boxter S
3. Porsche Carrera S
4. Lotus Elise (w/sport package)
5. Honda S2000
6. Dodge Viper SRT-10
7. BMW Z4 3.0i
8. Nissan 350Z
9. Mercedes-Benz SLK350

The Elise did lose points for the "trunk", "ride" and "interior design." But in the performance ratings gained points for "fuel economy."

I have to think that in this contest, the Elise without the sport package would have done better.

[MickOpalak]

A sports car that is good 'all around' would be one that can not only accelerate well, but brake well and corner well. Set fast times. And the better lap times for less money is all the better. The Elise has got this in spades. If they were judging on factors outside of this like luggage space, comfort or amenities, then the title of the article should be 'best all around touring car', not sports car.

[Highlander]

Originally posted by MickOpalak
A sports car that is good 'all around' would be one that can not only accelerate well, but brake well and corner well. Set fast times. And the better lap times for less money is all the better. The Elise has got this in spades. If they were judging on factors outside of this like luggage space, comfort or amenities, then the title of the article should be 'best all around touring car', not sports car.

amen.

[NtflBlueLiz]

Originally posted by Highlander
amen.

They are judging sports cars: i.e. car for people who practice sports such as Golf. That is why the trunk is important.
You sissy Lotus Elise people who just worry about going fast around turns and never practicing any "real" sports and who are no "real" sportsman wouldn't understand this concept of a sports car.

[TimMullen]

Originally posted by MickOpalak
the title of the article should be 'best all around touring car', not sports car.

But to most people, Touring Car = Sports Car. The Elise = radical, impractical car.

Heck to most people, a Camero and a Mustang is a Sports Car...

As others have pointed out, R&T has always loved Porsches. I always get a kick out of each review of the next new Porsche, where they write that they have finally "fixed" the handling - I keep wondering how they finally fixed it if they did that the last time; and the time before, and the time before...

I still like R&T, I just take anything they say about Porsches with a large grain of salt...

[LITEW8CRAZY]

Look at the list of cars it DID beat out. I would have thought the S2000, Z4 and the SLK would have been chosen higher than the Elise for "All-Around" performance. I guess the performance of the car REALLY weighed heavier than the igress, egress and trunk issues.
Way to go Lotus!

[sleepless]

Originally posted by LITEW8CRAZY
Look at the list of cars it DID beat out. I would have thought the S2000, Z4 and the SLK would have been chosen higher than the Elise for "All-Around" performance. I guess the performance of the car REALLY weighed heavier than the igress, egress and trunk issues.
Way to go Lotus!

I agree, given the ordering, it is clear that performance was weighed heavily.

I wonder if all the anti-Porsche folks here have spent any decent amount of time in one, especially on a winding road or a road course. They are indeed outstanding cars. I'm glad to see they put the Boxster ahead of the 911 though; the later is more of a GT car than a sports car but it has always lived on precarious divider between the two categories.

Anyway, the order seems quite reasonable to me.

[MikeGalos]

Sleepless,

It's not that Porsches are bad cars but that R&T regularly changes their weighting on comparison tests in just such a way as to make sure the included Porsche wins.

[Vantage]

Even in the Porsche community, people are finally starting to admit that the Boxster is the superior platform. I think this is why the new Cayman will be a big hit.

[sleepless]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but they left the active handling system turned on for the cars that have it (which is all 3 that beat the Elise which doesn't have active handling).

Now, that is "cheating" on a race track!

Oh well... Still a good article

[Steven22]

They were pretty clear with their definition of Sports Car as it applied to this test. They specifically pointed to the magazine title, and said the tests would be carried out on the road and on the track, with the combined results determining the winner.

WE can define sports cars as pure performance, but that's not how they chose to, so the Elise ended up where it did.

As others pointed out, the Elise lost out on the 'road' side of things, and according to their criteria, rightfully so. There are more and more ordered cars backing up a dealerships from people dropping out, likely many people who, when actually confronted with the realities of the car, decide it's not for them.

I personally don't think the Touring Package would've closed the gap for the Elise's ergonomic shortcomings. It's still tough to get into, the trunk is still small, it's still very loud compared to the other cars.

I'm pleased with how the Elise faired, I expected it to get blown away on ergonomics. I was a bit surprised to see that the Boxster beat it in the slalom.

[EdHahn]

I was looking at the segment times for the track detailed in the article, and something weird is showing up.

At segment 3? (the one where the Elise gets top spot with an apex speed over 90 mph), the Elise is starting the next section with a head start in speed. Segment 4? (1/2 mile straight) has the car gain less than 30 mph (to 119mph).

YET, every other car, including ones with poorer power to weight, gain around 40 mph (the high power ones gain almost 50 mph).

The only explanation I can think of is (1) aerodynamics (which can't be *that* much of a difference), or (2) bad driving (poor gear selection, etc.) ...

ed

[fitfan]

torque, or lack there of no doubt. A track with a 1/2 mile straight will bear out the weakenss of the Elise.

I thought overall it was a somewhat fair article, except for a few idiotic comments like

"all around is the key word here, so the size of the trunk and comfy seat are most important"

"The Elise has seats made of folded sheet metal"

Dorky comments like that... odd to that the dude that picked the S2000 as the best is the one that said the Elise was the "hands down the best performing sports car in the segment" only a year before? maybe he moonlights as a political advisor for john kerry too?

I think it would have been a much better article if they had stuck to the "best all around SPORTS CAR" instead of "BEST ALL AROUND sports car", but ulitimaltly i think there evaluations (in the big picture) were o.k.

how about that boxster s - very nice #'s!!!! ..and further evidance of what i have allways said - the C6 will b!tch slap the Elise in real world performance. anyways, I would never buy a vette, not my cup o' tea.

I think the article is a good example of why many people are selling off their "dream car Elise" so fast - They had a misconception about it? And it verifies to me that the Elise is the BEST choice based on my values.

[Surferjer]

I thought the article said enough nice things about the Elise to get the point across that true enthusiasts should take a look. But I noticed a number of the cup-holder wanting writers put the Elise last on their personal preference list, too. This magazine is Road and Track, not "Automobile" or "Car and Driver". I would expect this rag to be looking for a good Road and Track kind of car, not a comfortable car for shlepping your kid around. Another thing that bothered me was the price factor-there was not nearly enough of a difference built in between a 35K 350Z and a 90K Porsche, for example.

Oh well...rant done.