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Old 07-30-2010, 07:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Oil Cooler Line Fitting Size?

I am replacing the driver side (LH) oil cooler line. I need the size of the OEM fittings in hopes of find higher quality aftermarket ones. I am also going to replace the hose with a higher quality hose. The OEM one failed and I do not wish to replace it with the same hose.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

FYI, It has been a nightmare attempting to replace this hose. I am only half way done.

I am in the process of doing a step by step write up for others.

Step by Step Oil Cooler Line Full Repair
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The thread is 5/8 BSP. Are you looking for exact replacement line/fittings?

If not, you can use these and convert to -10AN. You'll need to either get replacement oil coolers (something like these with -10AN or cut the BSP ends off the stock oil coolers and weld a -10AN bung to it.

Other option is to go thru Lotus dealer to get stock replacement lines if that's your preference. You might also want to consider a MoCal oil/water cooler and do away with the stock oil coolers/lines completely.

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Old 07-31-2010, 07:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You might be the savior I have been looking for. I have been reading your teardown post. Wow

I would like to keep my original sandwich plate. I would also like to run a new higher quality hose from the plate to the oil cooler. Here is the dilemma. Can this be done? Run the same nylon braided hose you used and add the fittings at the ends of the hose (myself in the garage) which will straight up connect into the sandwich plate and oil cooler. Simple one, two, three.

Or is there not a similar fitting out there?

Oil cooler (5/8 fitting) Hose ========= (5/8 90 degree fitting) into sandwich plate.
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i made one of those bsp to -10 fittings.i didnt know they made one.i parted half of the bsp fitting off.then did the same to a -10.welded the 2 together.to switch the oil cooler you would need female bsp to male -10.i didnt see that in the link.they might exist though.if you use push lock fittings or the braided line fittings.you will need to make them up on a bench with a vise.its best to use the special v blocks in the vise jaws too.
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobeLotus View Post
You might be the savior I have been looking for. I have been reading your teardown post. Wow

I would like to keep my original sandwich plate. I would also like to run a new higher quality hose from the plate to the oil cooler. Here is the dilemma. Can this be done? Run the same nylon braided hose you used and add the fittings at the ends of the hose (myself in the garage) which will straight up connect into the sandwich plate and oil cooler. Simple one, two, three.

Or is there not a similar fitting out there?

Oil cooler (5/8 fitting) Hose ========= (5/8 90 degree fitting) into sandwich plate.
You might NOT want to run the lines I'm using, that Kevlar PTFE 910 stuff is $24/ft -- if you stay with front oil coolers you'll need 27 ft of it. $648 worth of hose. Also, you need to use 910 fittings (forged) which range from $25-30 each fitting. The only reason I went with these hose/fittings is because I only need about 4 feet for the Mocal oil/water cooler setup. It's lighter and stronger than SS lines, but expensive.

The stock oil coolers are not really up to snuff (quality wise) IMHO -- it's cheaper to go with aftermarket coolers and do a full -10AN setup. Otherwise, you'll search for 5/8 BSP female swivel to -10AN (I have yet to find one, but that they may exist somewhere on this planet).

The 910 fittings I'm using a re-usable and you can actually do them without a vise or special tools (very fine thread), but I'm using AN vise jaws that makes the process super easy to secure hose to fitting. here You should use AN wrench, but it can be done with any quality wrench.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You might NOT want to run the lines I'm using, that Kevlar PTFE 910 stuff is $24/ft -- if you stay with front oil coolers you'll need 27 ft of it. $648 worth of hose.
I always thought that hose sold by Pegasus is made by Aeroquip. There aren't many out there with the stripes on the hose and their Starlite series come to mind.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You would not have to find 5/8" BSP to -10AN adapters. BSP aftermarket fittings do exist.

First, though, I would confirm that they are indeed 5/8" BSP. I know that robains has confirmed that the female threads in the sandwich plate are 5/8" BSP, but I haven't seen confirmation that the oil cooler lines themselves are. The stock fittings into the sandwich plate could potentially be adapters from 5/8" BSP male to something else, like a Metric fitting (which do exist). I am not saying that this is the case, just that it needs to be verified.

In either case, Goodridge makes BSP as well as Metric hose fittings. For the BSP series they are push-fit fittings:

5/8" BSP for -10 hose
350-10 straight
7000-10 45 degrees
7001-10 90 degrees

I don't think these are stocked in the USA, but they would be in the UK.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Sounds like good advice. I did test the plate fittings both ends - the one going to plate and the one going to hose, both are 5/8 BSP. HOWEVER, I didn't verify the OEM oil cooler fitting is 5/8 BSP - just my assumption that Lotus would NOT use a different fitting on one end of the hose vs. the other end of the hose. But it is Lotus so who knows what they grab from the parts bins.

You can quickly verify 5/8 BSP buy taking your cut off piece and seeing if it screws onto the end of the OEM fitting coming out of the OEM sandwich plate -- what will confirm if the thread is the same.

Quote:
You would not have to find 5/8" BSP to -10AN adapters. BSP aftermarket fittings do exist.
Agree, hope I wasn't suggesting Pegasus as the only source. I suggested -10AN to OP as it appears he is US based and working with -10AN in the US is much easier than working with BSP.

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the confirmation on the fittings. I had been looking for details on the OEM fittings in the past, and it's nice to finally have the information out there for people!
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The first thing I did was test the cut off piece by attaching to the sandwich plate to verify the same 5/8 size. CONFIRMED.

I looked up the Goodridge and they are push fittings and do have the 5/8 to - 10 an as MSV pointed. Great info. However, pardon my ignorance, how reliable is a push fitting? Do you just push the rubber hose into the fitting and that's it? Does it lock in? Couldn't it slip back out? The hose states it can handle a working psi of 375 which should be lower than the oil cooler line pressure. I don't know exactly what our oil pressure is at the higher condition. The other issue is that the hose is not considered superior automotive performance but high quality. Don;t we all want superior performance quality. I wonder if it is still better than the OEM hose. Considering what happened to me, anything is better than OEM.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobeLotus View Post
The first thing I did was test the cut off piece by attaching to the sandwich plate to verify the same 5/8 size. CONFIRMED.

I looked up the Goodridge and they are push fittings and do have the 5/8 to - 10 an as MSV pointed. Great info. However, pardon my ignorance, how reliable is a push fitting? Do you just push the rubber hose into the fitting and that's it? Does it lock in? Couldn't it slip back out? The hose states it can handle a working psi of 375 which should be lower than the oil cooler line pressure. I don't know exactly what our oil pressure is at the higher condition. The other issue is that the hose is not considered superior automotive performance but high quality. Don;t we all want superior performance quality. I wonder if it is still better than the OEM hose. Considering what happened to me, anything is better than OEM.

Thanks for the help.
I don't know the details of how your original hose failed ... I've never had a hose fail that wasn't due to some other circumstances such as abnormal stress on the line/fitting and/or something rubbing thru the hose.

If you're going to use push-on (I guess technically it's all really push-on just different methods is making the seal), then you might want to look at this stuff here - be sure to read procedures on how the hose is applied to fitting - good for 250 psi 300F, braided, light weight, and relatively cheap Fragola 8000.

I typically don't use "push-on" for oil applications -- I try to use push-on only in vacuum or smaller coolant overflow/filler applications. Having said that, I've used push-on in a fuel application (heat and worm clamp) that is holding up well (54psi low heat).

Assume when you refer to "push-on" you mean something like:
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The Aeroquip push-on fittings and hose is exactly what I used on my 944spec race car and it worked flawlessly. I did, however, use pipe clamps on the fittings just-in-case. I still want to use it for the Elise cooler setup i'm doing. Here are some pics of the 944 setup.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fragola is ok on the cheap, I use their 8000 series pushlock for my water lines on my IC setup. I wouldn't use it for oil. I have Fragola 8000 and Aeroquip pushlock on my car and the aeroquip is a much nicer hose.

Aeroquip pushlock is some of the best you can get, I'm using that for my oil/cranckcase vent setup with XRP fittings.

With push hose on an oil line you'll want to use an oetiker hose clamp, not the screw type clamps. McMaster-Carr (fixed link)
Pliers for those clamps: McMaster-Carr

My oil lines are Earls fittings and Earls Pro-lite 350 hose. Its ok hose but not the best. It will kink if you radius is too tight.

My new fuel lines are XRP fittings with the new XRP XR-31 hose. That is awesome stuff! Super solid, yet extremely flexible and wont kink.

From now on I'll probably use the XR-31 for fuel and oil lines and the Aeroquip socketless hose for water and vent lines if/when I have to redo any of the lines.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJChaser View Post
...
With push hose on an oil line you'll want to use an oetiker hose clamp, not the screw type clamps. McMaster-Carr
Pliers for those clamps: McMaster-Carr
...
McMaster doesn't use the term "oetiker". Can you clarify which clamp you mean? One of the pinch type clamps?
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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damn I thought my links went right to them. Yes the pinch clamps this should work: McMaster-Carr
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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the -10 push lock hose made by aeroquip is very good quality.we use -6 on the fuel lines and -10 on the oil lines with the aeroquip push lock fittings in the west dsr race cars.we have never used a clamp on them.once you push the hose all the way on.there is no getting it off short of cutting it off with a razor knife.we have never had a problem with a connection on a push lock fitting.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I am inexperienced in the standard pipe, hose and thread sizes, but I do understand that the trade sizes don't necessarily equal the dimensions of the components. I am trying to understand this exactly, so I am looking for some help to clear up some questions. I have already tried to research it online.

It was stated earlier in this thread that the oil line connectors are 5/8" BSP. I looked that up, and found it means the thread outer diameter is 0.9020 inches, and there are 14 threads per inch. Are they BSPP or BSPT?

What I don't know is does specifying "5/8 BSP" specify the hose size as well? All the web sites I have found that describe the BSP standard only refer to it as the thread size, and say nothing of the hose or pipe size. (Those sites seem to make the implicit assumption that the reader already knows this.) If I look at the Pegasus Auto Racing site, its 5/8 BSP hose fitting is described as follows:
"5/8 ID Hose End, 5/8 BSP"
and is to be used with their 5/8 inch inner diameter hose (which is 0.9 inch outer diameter). But, given that they state both hose size and BSP size, it leads me to naturally wonder if they were just being redundant in their description, or if connectors are sometimes made with varying hose sizes for a given thread size. (I am guessing not, but would like someone who really knows this stuff to confirm.)

Given that Lotus used 5/8 BSP thread connectors, does that mean the stock hose is 5/8 inch inner diameter and 0.9 inch outer diameter? If that is true, then the Pegasus barbed 5/8 BSP hose end should work with the stock hose, correct?

I have asked about the oil hose and connector measurements in other threads, but no answer so far. I have a leaking hose end right now, and want to make sure that I fix it the first time correctly, and soon. I want to keep the stock hose, and so want to make sure I know the stock hose and connector sizes exactly.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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the lotus hoses are metric.when i was going through this same thing a few years ago.i ended up making an adapter from the sandwich plate to dash 10.then i used a push lock dash 10 fitting.the lotus hose is a bit bigger so i used a hose clamp.this has worked fine for a few years now.if you have a leaking hose on the oil cooler side.im not sure you can convert that end.i cant remember if the oil coolers have thread in adapters or if they are welded to the oil cooler.

5/8th refers to the hose id.or -10 is 10 1/16th of an inch.or 5/8th.the fitting id is always less than the hose id because of the fitting wall thickness.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ChrisH - I'm in Australia & am looking at replacing all hoses & fittings to eliminate the oil cooler issue...one of my hoses is weeping right now. After spending a few hours at Pirtek & ENZED yesterday, I'm flat out of luck finding locally-sourced 5/8 BSP fittings so am close to clicking "Buy Now" on the Pegasus kit.

Onto your question about whether you can use the stock Lotus hose with a Pegasus 5/8 barb...it depends. The stock hose is marked as 16mm internal diameter (ID), yet 5/8" = 15.875mm ((5/8)*25.4mm):



The upshot is, until you try it out you can't be sure. What's great about the Pegasus kit is that they've already sorted out the compatibility issues.

Are you sure you want to keep using your stock hose anyway? It seems not really up to scratch...

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Old 03-05-2011, 06:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The markings on my stock oil hoses are:
CSM/PV A/NBR < 16.0 mm 449-02
I saw a picture of another person's hose which leads me to think the 449-02 is simply a batch number. (There is also what appears to be a manufacturer's logo on the hose, which looks like a snail with a little trail behind it. I have not seen that logo before.)

Based on the markings, the hose appears to be made of a hybrid of CSM, PVC(maybe?) and NBR materials. I tried to find out more about these materials and their applicability to automobile oil hoses, and only found the following article that discussed oil resistance of fuel hose covers (but it was still informative about oil interacting with rubber):
A comparison of CM and CSM with other materials for automotive fuel hose covers. - Free Online Library

One can't assume that a good hydraulic hose is a good automobile oil hose, as it seemed some people implied in one or more of the multitude of oil line failure threads here. Unfortunately, vendors of replacement oil hoses don't say much about what their hose is really made of. They generally just say things like "synthetic rubber", or elastomer, or similar. At least the stock oil hoses seem to be made of the right materials for typical use (unless you want racing quality hoses). I couldn't even find what the Aeroquip oil hoses (not their hydraulic hoses) are really made of, and those have a good reputation. If I do replace my hoses (not just fix the fittings), I certainly don't want to get a lower quality hose than what is already in the car.

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