New Esprit is coming

[tricky_dickey]

My concerns as always is where did they steal one should I say source the parts from ??? Transaxles first Citroen which are all gone then Renault for the UN1 series and now they are gone. Now who's making a 7 speed to take the grunt of a 5 liter TT

[Plackslayer]

Originally Posted by tricky_dickey

My concerns as always is where did they steal one should I say source the parts from ??? Transaxles first Citroen which are all gone then Renault for the UN1 series and now they are gone. Now who's making a 7 speed to take the grunt of a 5 liter TT

If it works - I don't care where it came form as long as it comes with the Lotus "drive" associated with it.

[tmr]

Has it been determined that this is a Lotus-built engine and not one sourced from Toyota or BMW (for instance)? Who makes the transaxle? I'm sorry, but Lotus tends to make a half-baked engine with lots of issues vs. the minor ones for major manufacturers. I know that many here would prefer a "bespoke" Lotus engine, but Lotus haven't done this in a while, unlike Ferrari. Even Lamborghini now gets help from Audi, which has probably been for the good when it comes output and reliability.

I know that the Toyota-sourced Elise/Exige engines have had their share of issues, but these are minor compared to a Lotus designed/built engine.

As for the price, I think that the problem for Lotus will be name recognition compared to Ferrari or Lamborghini. They need to offer Ferrari levels of performance at upper-end Porsche prices.

The other problem Lotus has is execution. They just don't have the reliability or support that the others have. Also, they're on shaky ground financially, so any problems with the cars (and there will be problems) won't get resolved in the same manner the competition does.

Don't get me wrong - I've been a Lotus fan since I first drove a new Europa TC Special back in 1975 and have been a Lotus owner since 1989. This is just my two cents worth based on that experience.

[martinm1]

I concur with tmr. This car will be a very hard sell in my view if the price is over 150. Lotus has a lot of skepticism to get over after the implosion with the prior regime. If they had actually followed through on the "grand plan" then maybe it would be different, but a healthy dose of skepticism is wise. Mind you, this is coming from a 4x Lotus owner and I actually bought a V8 turbo esprit instead of a 355 spyder some years ago because of the price/performance difference and did not regret it, but this car already had many years of development and fixes. I expect the first year of this car will be rather "rough". I am thrilled that it looks like they will actually bring this forward, but the pricing is going to be really tricky for Lotus. Too high and it could be a complete dud in my view.

[Minnis]

I don't think reliability or price will be the issue all the people who probably will never buy one are making it out to be. The MP4-12C does well and that's an entirely new car from a company that hasn't built nearly as many cars. As a true Lotus fan I'd love to see a Lotus legend.

[jlj3394]

Lets step back for a second and consider this question: Does Lotus have any reputational advantages compared to other manufacturers? I say that Lotus has two main reputational advantages: (1) "driver's cars"; and (2) light cars. I think Lotus needs to keep this in mind, because, as others have said, people will pay a premium for a F-car, P-car, or Lambo simply because the names have boulevard cruising credibility.

Originally Posted by tricky_dickey

My concerns as always is where did they steal one should I say source the parts from ??? Transaxles first Citroen which are all gone then Renault for the UN1 series and now they are gone. Now who's making a 7 speed to take the grunt of a 5 liter TT

I'd call GM and see how many mechanical parts they'll let you steal off of a 'Vette. I'm not sure if the FE/RWD transmission will work in a ME/RWD setup, but handling power isn't the issue.

Before anyone bitches about the GM parts bin, go check out where Ferrari and most other exotic manufacturers license their magnetic shock tech from, when they're not just buying them outright.

Fun fact, the Garmin Navi in our Jeep Wrangler is the exact same Navi in every Ferrari made today. Ferrari replacement cost: $17,000, I'm not sure what Jeep charges (maybe $800-900?)

Originally Posted by tmr

Has it been determined that this is a Lotus-built engine and not one sourced from Toyota or BMW (for instance)? Who makes the transaxle? I'm sorry, but Lotus tends to make a half-baked engine with lots of issues vs. the minor ones for major manufacturers. I know that many here would prefer a "bespoke" Lotus engine, but Lotus haven't done this in a while, unlike Ferrari. Even Lamborghini now gets help from Audi, which has probably been for the good when it comes output and reliability.

I know that the Toyota-sourced Elise/Exige engines have had their share of issues, but these are minor compared to a Lotus designed/built engine.

As for the price, I think that the problem for Lotus will be name recognition compared to Ferrari or Lamborghini. They need to offer Ferrari levels of performance at upper-end Porsche prices.

The other problem Lotus has is execution. They just don't have the reliability or support that the others have. Also, they're on shaky ground financially, so any problems with the cars (and there will be problems) won't get resolved in the same manner the competition does.

Don't get me wrong - I've been a Lotus fan since I first drove a new Europa TC Special back in 1975 and have been a Lotus owner since 1989. This is just my two cents worth based on that experience.

The Esprit TTV8 from 1997 to 2004 was pretty reliable once they figured out the liner issue. This was as much the supplier's error as Lotus' - Lotus only figured it out once they realized that the engine's lined on Fridays were the only ones not failing - because they had longer to cure over the weekend. The supplier had recommended a too short cure time.

With all of that said, the cost and time to certify an engine for EPA or Euro regs is unreal. It would be cool if the EPA or Euro could agree to share data, but I doubt it happens anytime soon. This is why many small time exotic manufacturers just shop from the Corvette's parts bin - it is extremely hard to match the ZR1's performance, cost, and weight numbers. In fact, can anyone show me a cheaper way to get 550-600 reliable horses? The low weight is simply a bonus.

Using a ZR1 engine and transmission would go a long ways towards making a reliable drivetrain because GM has already done millions of hours of computer and real-world testing. These drivetrains get pounded at tracks across the country every weekend.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

It would be very sad if they placed the Esprit in the same category as a Panamera.

Yeah, really - dont be grouping the Esprit with ugly 4-door Porsches. Not even in the same zip code. Actually, dont even bother trying to compete with Porsche on any level. Just forget them. Porsche buyers buy Porsches and thats it. You aint getting any of them to come over to the good side.

As for the new Esprit, its great news should it happen. The Esprit used to be every bit as cool and good as any other exotics out there and they can do it again. Get that Lotus name pumped up again. The Esprit is still easily their most iconic road car so its good that they are ramping it up again!

[brgelise]

They need to get some numbers (volume) out there to generate a buz. Maybe they should make special offers to us multiple Lotus Owners that also drive their cars regularly. Being seen causes excitement. I know for a fact that seeing my Evora on the road helped with several more sales over time! How many agree with this philosophy? Notice I haven't touched the $$$.
Audi seemed to do well by offering the 4.2 V8 prior to the full blown V10.......Then they jacked the prices as demand allowed.

[Arashi]

Give me used Italia with a bodykit and call it a day.

[glb]

Originally Posted by Minnis

I don't think reliability or price will be the issue all the people who probably will never buy one are making it out to be. The MP4-12C does well and that's an entirely new car from a company that hasn't built nearly as many cars. As a true Lotus fan I'd love to see a Lotus legend.

Hey, man.

I wish I could agree, but cannot.

First, McLaren is a more careful, exacting company.

Second, one of the important steps in making a new issue reliable is real-world testing.

This is expensive. The only two manufacturers I trust in terms of 1st model year cars are Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura.

According to my Toyota engineer friend these companies do way more real testing than any other mfgrs.


The other side of that coin: witness the Evora. While I am happy people bought them and helped keep Lotus alive, those cars had early and miserable problems.

A dealer told me that 80% or so came back for not minor warranty work.

(Just read the posts....)

I didn't hesitate to buy a new '05 Elise, as they'd been out long enough and had Toyota drivetrain.

But, speaking of totally new cars, Lotus may be the least likely company I'd trust. Yes, there is a thrill to having the 1st one of something around, but I will forgo that bit of elation. (Frankly, Esprit would be a bit far from my price range anyway... and I don't need a car with such an unusable - in the US - performance range.)

My 2 cents; your results may vary.

PS: this is my 3rd Lotus

[JasperGTR]

Originally Posted by Gizmo3000

Always interesting to follow the price speculation threads on a future Lotus.

I'd have to agree with what most are saying, if they can put out a car that looks *and* performs (with a 500+HP V8) similarly to the Ferrari, MacLarens and Lambo's, they should be able to easily command close to a $175-200k price tag.

It's such a grey area once you get over $110k, when all sorts of other things start getting factored in. ("name brand" "exclusivity", etc), and you start appealing to buyers who buy both for the extreme performance, but also (often solely) buy just for the sake of being seen driving such an expensive fancy vehicle.

I bet even Lotus will have trouble figuring out what to sell the car for,
tho imagine they'll start high and then gradually decrease the price over time once they figure out what the market is for such a vehicle. (basically how much people are willing to pay "over" what it actually costs to manufacture such a vehicle, so they can make a profit)

If it is over $150k, I think I'm out.

I'll be looking at the Elan next.