Addiction and Willpower.

[mrluky]

Do you think that one could be psychologically addicted despite being able to never act on the desire?

Is addiction independent of willpower?

Philosophically, I think that it is actions that matter; so even if you have urges that you deny, those urges don't matter.

But in reality, I think(newly thought) that there is a difference between denying an urge, and not having the urge at all.

Caveat: This is not meant to be an argument over the definition of 'psychologically addicted'. Basically, I mean an uncontrollable urge. Usually an urge to do/use something in a dependent manner. Usually detrimental, and at least not beneficial or constructive.

Example(not related, Tyler): A person does heroine(this thread not relegated to drugs) once. Loved it. Enough time passes that any trace of the chemical is out of the system. Now the person occasionally thinks about it in a dependent manner. Longs for its effect, but never touches it ever again. Based On what I have written, I am saying that he is addicted, and at the same time has strong enough will power to never use heroine again. To me, one can be addicted despite being able to never act on the desire? Addiction and Will power are independent.

Is there a difference between two people that don't drink alcohol if one of them yearns for it and the other does not?

This may need further clarification. If so, I will amend according to responses.

[kestrel74]

I'm addicted to speed !!! ( I LOVE going FAST ! )

[buzzy]

Doesn't addiction by definition require a physical manifestation? If you are addicted to heroin, you are giving in to the physiological and physical need of the drug. If you are able to overcome those needs, then you aren't addicted anymore.

Is it an addiction if you are able to quit at any given point?

I didn't go and look it up but I guess someone could go quote a dictionary.

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by mrluky

Do you think that one could be psychologically addicted despite being able to never act on the desire?

Is addiction independent of willpower?

Philosophically, I think that it is actions that matter; so even if you have urges that you deny, those urges don't matter.

But in reality, I think(newly thought) that there is a difference between denying an urge, and not having the urge at all.

Caveat: This is not meant to be an argument over the definition of 'psychologically addicted'. Basically, I mean an uncontrollable urge. Usually an urge to do/use something in a dependent manner. Usually detrimental, and at least not beneficial or constructive.

Example(not related, Tyler): A person does heroine(this thread not relegated to drugs) once. Loved it. Enough time passes that any trace of the chemical is out of the system. Now the person occasionally thinks about it in a dependent manner. Longs for its effect, but never touches it ever again. Based On what I have written, I am saying that he is addicted, and at the same time has strong enough will power to never use heroine again. To me, one can be addicted despite being able to never act on the desire? Addiction and Will power are independent.

Is there a difference between two people that don't drink alcohol if one of them yearns for it and the other does not?

This may need further clarification. If so, I will amend according to responses.

it depends...

probably not the answer you were hoping for, but there is no definite definition of what exactly addiction is, and whether it is psychological or physical or a blend of both. To complicate matters more, is addiction genetic, or not?

"Is there a difference between two people that don't drink alcohol if one of them yearns for it and the other does not?"

No, I dont think so, one may have more willpower than the other, or is making a deliberate choice not to drink, or is a dry drunk and still behaves in an alcoholic way, or has transformed the alcohol addiction in to something more socially acceptable, such as a smoking habit, or eating, or sex, or any number of things... But, both of them are still addicted.

Actions are important, but so is the reason behind those actions.

[mrluky]

Originally Posted by DrJ

Actions are important, but so is the reason behind those actions.

Would you say that the reasoning behind an action based on an uncontrollable urge, or an urge to do/use something in a dependent manner could define, at least in part, a measure of addiction, and that the action or lack thereof is a measure of will?

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by mrluky

Would you say that the reasoning behind an action defines, at least in part, a measure of addiction, and that the action or lack thereof is a measure of will?

I would say that the reasoning behind a decision, when addiction is concerned, is entirely about the addiction, and that the action, or lack of it, is based on will, and a deliberate choice.

I really think there is something to the opinion that there is something going on in the brain of an addicted person, that does not happen in a non-addicted person. A definite physical difference in function or chemical process.

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by buzzy

Doesn't addiction by definition require a physical manifestation? If you are addicted to heroin, you are giving in to the physiological and physical need of the drug. If you are able to overcome those needs, then you aren't addicted anymore.

Is it an addiction if you are able to quit at any given point?

I didn't go and look it up but I guess someone could go quote a dictionary.

No, for proof see: Dry Drunk.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by DrJ

No, for proof see: Dry Drunk.

I looked it up. It doesn't sound like addiction at all.

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by buzzy

I looked it up. It doesn't sound like addiction at all.

Where did you look it up? The definition of a dry drunk is someone that is not actively drinking, but still has all the associated addictive and resulting, behaviors...

[RENDERMAN]

I live a 1/4 mile at a time....

[shadowhusky]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

I'm addicted to speed !!! ( I LOVE going FAST ! )

+1,000,000

[serpent]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

I'm addicted to speed !!! ( I LOVE going FAST ! )

Originally Posted by RENDERMAN

I live a 1/4 mile at a time....

Wise words spoken by wise men

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by DrJ

Where did you look it up? The definition of a dry drunk is someone that is not actively drinking, but still has all the associated addictive and resulting, behaviors...

I checked out 7 or 8 of the top links in google for it: dry drunk syndrome - Google Search

It sounds like an emotional problem to me rather than addiction.

To quote answers.com: Addiction is a dependence on a behavior or sub-stance that a person is powerless to stop.

To me, that means they have to actively engage in said behaviour or substance to be an addict or suffer from addiction. Once they stop, you could say they have a physiological or physical dependence, but eventually that goes away over time or with treatment.

Anyhow, we're arguing semantics now. Lets get this back on track... I'm addicted to my Lotus.

[milehitom]

I think those who are fighting a strong urge to perform some detrimental activity are using a great deal of their emotional and psychological energy in order to resist something that most people don't even think about.

So, yes, they are different than those who don't experience that urge.

That's the reason alcoholics who have stopped drinking refer to themselves as "recovering alcoholics." They have to fight the urge to drink (to one degree or another) for the rest of their lives. For some, the urge never abates. They're wired differently.

Tom

[DrJ]

Originally Posted by buzzy

I checked out 7 or 8 of the top links in google for it: dry drunk syndrome - Google Search

It sounds like an emotional problem to me rather than addiction.

To quote answers.com: Addiction is a dependence on a behavior or sub-stance that a person is powerless to stop.

To me, that means they have to actively engage in said behaviour or substance to be an addict or suffer from addiction. Once they stop, you could say they have a physiological or physical dependence, but eventually that goes away over time or with treatment.

Anyhow, we're arguing semantics now. Lets get this back on track... I'm addicted to my Lotus.

See, it's that pesky 8th one that always gets ya...

"Dry Drunk" has been described as "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink."

what we are arguing is not semantics, but a fundamental difference in our understanding of what addiction is, and means. You are arguing that addiction is the act, and I am arguing that addiction is not only the act, but the behaviors and the act of being addicted, regardless of whether or not the addictive act is actively engaged in.

[Thomasio]

People are referred to as "recovering" because they aren't currently acting on their impulses / addiction. I believe that one can be addicted to something no matter how much time has lapsed since the addiction was created.

[the1sen]

What about an addictive personality type being genetic? The wiring is almost PATTERNED to have similarities.

EG. Kid is adopted at birth, meets parents after a long time, gets itch to look up the folks, finds them and sees more than just physical similarities.

I believe it is genetic. Just as I believe susceptibility to diseases like cancer is genetic. Addictive personalities, behaviors in general, are not only taught, but genetically influenced.

People are born with a certain disposition - and you can see it at a VERY early age.

IMHO, we are no more evolved than our recent ancestors (up to 2000 years) aside from the CHOICES we make to break patterns, and create new circles of behavior.

Genetics are more responsible for human behavior than people realize.

[LotusStig22]

Perhaps actually.
From a psychological standpoint, it IS possible, but that dry drunk reference doesn't cut it, but it's close.

[Westrock]

I did marijuana as a youth and thought it was really fun. But the possible offset of cost and particularly legal ramifications kept me from ever doing it again once I got into the workplace. Now if it were ever legalized I would probably be tempted to buy it much like (light) casual drinking. I also do not smoke cigarettes.

I also have a pretty active sex drive but I do not have urge to force myself on others or doing unspeakable acts to defenseless children. And honestly I just dont find rape that sexually appealing.

So ya I do have these urges to do things that are considered "deviant", but my willpower is far stronger then that.

However I do find it incredibly hard to drink water instead of the convenient soda pop. I know I should drink water, I know its better for me. But there is no social stigma or ramification associated with it and so I guess my willpower is weaker against it.

Now one time I did accidentally buy a case of caffeine free Diet Dr. Pepper because the labels are very similar looking. And after a day of drinking it I was feeling very mopy and just lying on the couch. I was thinking WTF is wrong with me, why do I feel like this? I then noticed the label on the can and I remember thinking "this stuff really is like cigarettes!". I am sure I could take a stand and stop drinking it, but I just lack the hard reason too. Kidney stone could probably do it

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by Westrock

I did marijuana as a youth and thought it was really fun.

Please tell us you didn't inhale!