Advice about dogs and Lymphoma

[scottyb]

One of my dogs, my pure bred Yellow Lab has been diagnosed with lymphoma at 12 years of age. Her veterinarian wants to start chemo.

As of yet, we have been unable to determine the staging nor aggressiveness because I am leery of sedating her at this age to determine so.

I have heard that in some cases the chemo in dogs, as in humans worsens the quality of life and the success of such treatment is mostly minimal.

I know what my feelings are but I would appreciate a consensus of opinions from those of you who have been in the situation of deciding whether or not to go forward with chemotherapy.

Thanks

[Cardinal]

We went with it. My dog Molly has lymphoma. She's 13, and was diagnosed over a year ago. She takes prednisone and some chemo pill which I can't remember the name of. The meds have stabilized her health. Her quality of life is fine. You'd never know she was sick by looking at her. She runs, jumps and eats like a pig. YMMV, but from my experience, QoL is not really an issue, and the meds do seem to help. Good luck whatever you decide.

[evomind]

hey scottyb, what up?
sorry to hear abt the dog. i know how depressing it is to have a sick animal.
im not going to say to much because im not sure how to say it without sounding bitterly cold. (the kinder, gentler evo)
some things to consider though
what are the costs? what is the life expectancy with treatment? what would be the dogs natural lifespan? and of course QOL, which will differ on a case by case basis....
i would weigh all those factors in. particularly the natural lifespan. if the natural lifespan is say 15 years or so and your dog is 12....
i dont know....

what are your thoughts?

[scottyb]

Well it turns out we got lucky with an aspirate, however the diagnosis is grimmer than originally thought. Apparently she has a very aggressive form of lymphoma and we were told her life expectancy without chemo would be 30-50 days.

As for the cost of chemo, it really does not factor into the equation for us.

The life span of a lab can go to 15 or 16, so I am told, however I believe the average is between 13-14 years. However, she has been showing signs of Neurological deficiencies over the past year or so, and we suspect she has experienced a few silent strokes over the past 2 years. Sufficient to say, we do not know how long she would live if she didn’t have lymphoma.

[NMRJock]

I'm really sorry to read about your pet's health issues. We treat ours like any other member of the family (Better, because they don't have to work or clean up after themselves...) and I understand how hard it can be to try to make medical decisions for them. It's not always clear what is really in their best interest.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Well it turns out we got lucky with an aspirate, however the diagnosis is grimmer than originally thought. Apparently she has a very aggressive form of lymphoma and we were told her life expectancy without chemo would be 30-50 days.

As for the cost of chemo, it really does not factor into the equation for us.

The life span of a lab can go to 15 or 16, so I am told, however I believe the average is between 13-14 years. However, she has been showing signs of Neurological deficiencies over the past year or so, and we suspect she has experienced a few silent strokes over the past 2 years. Sufficient to say, we do not know how long she would live if she didn’t have lymphoma.

im sorry scotty.

[Viggen]

sigh.... always tough decisions when it comes to our pets. My parents were watching my dogs a few months back & one of them got hit by a car. $4500 later (w/o surgery)she's running around and is doing great!!! She's a french brittney & is almost 7yrs old.

With a 12yr old lab not sure what to tell you there. Large dogs usually do not have the long life expectancy of some of the smaller dogs so many times even 12yrs is longer then average when the average dog is in the 70-80lb area. Hip issues I beleive are one of the areas the labs can have troubles with. Not really sure what to say since we have no clue how the chemo will work or what any other possible issues are. I asked 3 vets about my dog when the incident happend. Not once did they tell me to put her down (she had +99.9% loss of movement on her rear legs) so I beleived what the doc's told me and followed what the neurosurgeon suggested.

Like all of us I didn't want my dog to suffer at all so I asked many times if I was doing the right thing.

[MikeG911]

Man - sorry to hear this, a pet to me is a family member. I would do what ever it took to keep my dog well, but QOL is very important as well. I really hope everything works out for you.

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by scottyb

One of my dogs, my pure bred Yellow Lab has been diagnosed with lymphoma at 12 years of age. Her veterinarian wants to start chemo.

As of yet, we have been unable to determine the staging nor aggressiveness because I am leery of sedating her at this age to determine so.

I have heard that in some cases the chemo in dogs, as in humans worsens the quality of life and the success of such treatment is mostly minimal.

I know what my feelings are but I would appreciate a consensus of opinions from those of you who have been in the situation of deciding whether or not to go forward with chemotherapy.

Thanks

Sorry to hear this scotty, this is the part of dog ownership that absolutely sucks: its the last few years of the dogs life and you know that the end is coming at some point for a pet thats been a part of your family for a long time. I just went through this with my yellow lab mix back in feb (although it was pyometra that killed her she had ovarian cancer.).

The important thing to remember about cancers like lymphoma is that there is zero practical chance of curing the cancer. the best you can hope for is remission and that has been statistically demonstrated in about 75% of dogs treated. Cardinal's experience with his dog molly is fairly typical of chmotherapy in dogs in that the dog does not go bald and act sickly. They can have a pretty decent quality of life (or at least from the dogs i have seen that were undergoing chemo) also keep in mind that eventually the tumor will become resistant to the chemo drugs and the lymphoma will attack a vital organ and thats going to be it. Also keep in mind that one of the reasons why chemo in dogs has less side effects is because lower doses are given but this also makes for a less agressive treatment overall and some vets have debated the efficacy of low dose treatment because of this.

How is your dog doing right now? was she acting sick or did they discover this in an unrelated checkup... has she stopped eating/drinking and is she vomiting? The real question is whether she is suffering and has a chance to recover. Since its an agressive form you really dont want to wait at all: if you want to have a chance of success you should be starting the therapy asap and then make decisions to continue as things progress. The vet is always going to recommend chemo because they have nothing to lose and $5-$9K to gain (the typical cost of a chemo series) and i have noticed that the pushing of money making treatments has been getting to be a near constant thing now when i visit the vet, particularly with the corporate owned vet chains. Also note that as an alternative you can always have your vet perscribe pain management instead to make your dog comfortable

One final thing... if your dog does not respond well to the chemo, its going to be pretty bad (and by pretty bad i mean *really* bad) and its going to be heartbreaking to watch, especially if you have kids... its something to consider when you make the decision (I literally got gray hairs popping up the week my dog died).

[daysineuropa]

Scotty,
Take a look at this website for resources Fight Canine Cancer

Our dog developed mast cell cancer over three years ago and was treated by the saint that is Dr Alice Villalobos. We were always told dogs could handle chemo much better than humans, although I can understand the point about lower doses.

In any event, our dog had Prednisone and didn't show any signs of quality of life deterioration and made a full recovery.

The Magic Bullet Fund can help with costs. We regularly get help request e-mails.

I can let you borrow the Laurie Kaplan book for as long as you need. Just send me a PM with your address.

Cheers,
Mark

[scottyb]

Thanks for the responses, Unfortunately we found out that she is not a candidate for chemo. She already had significant liver involvement and her spleen was grossly enlarged. We did place her on prednisone 2 days ago, and the nodes seem to be decreasing in size and she has some spunk back. Unfortunately it is a trade off because the Prednisone will probably lead to liver failure.

We can take solace in knowing that she had a fabulous 12 years and we would not change a thing from her past even if we had the opportunity to do so.

[Valenz]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Thanks for the responses, Unfortunately we found out that she is not a candidate for chemo. She already had significant liver involvement and her spleen was grossly enlarged. We did place her on prednisone 2 days ago, and the nodes seem to be decreasing in size and she has some spunk back. Unfortunately it is a trade off because the Prednisone will probably lead to liver failure.

We can take solace in knowing that she had a fabulous 12 years and we would not change a thing from her past even if we had the opportunity to do so.

I'm sorry to read about this. Best wishes moving forward. Even though they have short lives, dogs don't seem to be burdened by their own mortality. They enjoy their lives to the fullest for as long as they have them. I've noticed that many of my dogs who survive the loss of others do grieve, but they do eventually get over the loss of their pack-mate (certainly quicker than I do).

Dogs are remarkable creatures and though their presence in our lives is short they add tremendously to the quality of our existence.

[daysineuropa]

Originally Posted by Valenz

I'm sorry to read about this. Best wishes moving forward. Even though they have short lives, dogs don't seem to be burdened by their own mortality. They enjoy their lives to the fullest for as long as they have them. I've noticed that many of my dogs who survive the loss of others do grieve, but they do eventually get over the loss of their pack-mate (certainly quicker than I do).

Dogs are remarkable creatures and though their presence in our lives is short they add tremendously to the quality of our existence.

+1

Valenz, you nailed it. We can learn a lot from dogs.

[MikeG911]

Originally Posted by Valenz

I'm sorry to read about this. Best wishes moving forward. Even though they have short lives, dogs don't seem to be burdened by their own mortality. They enjoy their lives to the fullest for as long as they have them. I've noticed that many of my dogs who survive the loss of others do grieve, but they do eventually get over the loss of their pack-mate (certainly quicker than I do).

Dogs are remarkable creatures and though their presence in our lives is short they add tremendously to the quality of our existence.

Well stated - couldn't agree more. Sorry to hear the news.

[Savet]

I just wanted to throw my support in. I recently lost my dog (she was over 16 years old). She "followed" me home from fishing when I was 15, and I had her for almost 15 years. We didn't find out about the cancer until it was in her lymph nodes and around her heart. She went downhill very quickly at the end, but up to that point she was a trooper and was always upbeat and energetic. I'm sorry you're going through something similar