America's Coming Collapse - Arguing With Idiots - Page 5 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #81 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 02:25 PM
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Texas can in fact, any State that willfully joined the union, can willfully leave the union.
It is against the law to unilaterally leave the Union as laid out in the Constitution in Amendment 14, Section 3.

- No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. -

It basically makes it treason for any state representative to attempt to leave the Union. However, if that state can convince enough of the House and Senate they could be 'voted off the island'.

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post #82 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Schools of economic thought There is no sharper contrast than that which exists between Austrian economics and Keynesian economics.

As a preface I must say that it is not Republican vs Democrat.


Keynesian:
Consumer/demand side economics. Empower the consumer, growth will ensue.
Moderate inflation is healthy/normal.
Recessions/depressions are bad, must put a floor underneath them at all costs.
Federal reserve(central banks) = good
Bailout good, bankruptcy bad.
Spending valued/promoted
Interest rates low/manipulated
Goal moving forward? Massive government spending/stimulus. The hope is to spur the economy enough and be able to pay down debt/deficit later
Austerity is bad. "Austerity will hurt the economy short term, this will persist long term."

Austrian:
Supply side economics. Create something. Your workers can save or spend.
Deflation is healthy/normal.
Recessions/depressions are healthy. You are able to reallocate resources from wasteful areas to non wasteful areas. i.e. bankruptcy is good. Bailout bad.
Federal reserve(central banks) = bad
Savings is valued/promoted
Interest rates market driven
Goal moving forward? Declare bankruptcy immediately. The US' creditors will be paid back later than promised or with less # of dollars than promised.
Taxes: this is money taken from the private sector. Money that would have otherwise been used for saving/consumption is now used by the government to consume.
Austerity: to cure recessions CAUSED by keynesian policies, austerity is not only the right thing to do but the only option. You can't just cut taxes and pretend this crisis will cure itself, nor do the inverse. To spend, you must(or ought) to first have. Thus, to solve our current crisis, spending cuts must occur first.


Austrian economics is the smallest, but longest existing school of economic thought. Austrian economics has seen a resurgence in the recent decade. Austrian economists warned for many years of what was coming (2008 and beyond). We saw grave warnings as the housing bubble reached its peak. Keynesians were...... doing the opposite. See for yourself.

THERE IS NO MEANS OF AVOIDING THE FINAL COLLAPSE OF A BOOM BROUGHT ABOUT BY CREDIT EXPANSION. THE ALTERNATIVE IS ONLY WHETHER THE CRISIS SHOULD COME SOONER AS A RESULT OF A VOLUNTARY ABANDONMENT OF FURTHER CREDIT EXPANSION, OR LATER AS A FINAL OR TOTAL CATASTROPHE OF THE CURRENCY SYSTEM INVOLVED (Ludwid Von Mises) deceased 1973

So what is actually advocated? The liars and idiots will say that we want NO role for federal government. That is simply not true. But what you really want to see is a constitutionally limited federal government and EMPOWERED states. Wanna live in a socialist paradise, fine. Wanna live in capitalism central, fine. The obvious keynesian fear is that there won't be enough tax revenue to support the helpless dependents. It is feigned altruism. They only want to pay higher taxes if everyone else does at the same time, and usually they just classify everyone richer than them as "rich" and thus that is who you tax. We however promote donation and volunteerism. With the government not doing it for you....... with your money... you would be FREE to do it yourself (or not). Many charities have 0% administrative fees. Whereas less than 20 percent of all money spent on welfare actually ends up in recipients' hands.

MOST people will side with keynesian economics. I hope my notions put forth across this thread have at least made individuals think about things in a new light. Whether you side with one school or another, it is guaranteed that your cost of living will increase in the future. Now is not the time for excesses. The service sector of our economy will be hurt the most. Consider learning new skills that are concurrent to societal needs. If tomorrow your spouse lost their job, what are the things you would stop spending money on first?
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post #83 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 06:21 PM
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What is the government doing by delaying/not paying for debts

If you get an auto loan, you pay towards the principal monthly. However the federal government only pays the interest. As the interest adds up, you have to borrow more to cover that. Whenever politicians and economists try to rationalize government policy, they ignore how real finances work. Don't believe me? Ask yourself if you could run a fiscal deficit for DECADES and then still be "better off" by spending more. Social security was in surplus until only a few years ago. When politicians say they will reduce the deficit.... With their means, they can't. Interest rates will rise and it will cost hundreds of billions more just to "maintain" the debt.

So what is it that politicians are actually doing? By putting off fiscal sanity... They are maintaining our buying power at artificially elevated levels. There is no support for the amount of purchasing power per capita that exists. Had we never went down the road of debts and deficits, our nation would be building wealth and building purchasing power on solid ground. Instead, the entire world has subsidized our purchasing power.
Now you are just trying to make sense... that'll never work!

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post #84 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 08:23 PM
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The sad thing is..... I think you are serious...

It was a reference to Revolution.

I never once said an EMP would kill anyone, or could for that matter...
there is no EMP in Revolution.

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post #85 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 08:25 PM
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+1, you are correct, it was merely playful banter.

Haha look how many signatures it has now.
Traitors.
Put them all in FEMA concentration camps.

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post #86 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 08:35 PM
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there is no EMP in Revolution.
Who knows what it is, but it was worldwide, so it def could be an emp.

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post #87 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 09:18 PM
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Electronics damaged by EMP can not be turned back on, even with glowy necklaces.
circuits are burnt out.

world wide EMP is pretty much impossible to achieve unless you blanket the earth atmosphere with nuclear blasts. Even then you'd have spots where some electronics can survive.

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Last edited by IamBatman; 11-15-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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post #88 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:05 PM
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Does anyone know where the correct data comes from and what it means? I too, don't agree with people who just say "consensus" and I sure as hell won't accept the blanket-opinion of someone who is not directly in the field or has some freakish understanding of the scientific method and data in general. I'm not for or against, I'm just scientifically curious. Lately it seems the issue has died down and a huge group of people with some media-savvy are changing the party line from global warming to "climate change" because the data on warming is all over the map.
Where much of the data comes from:
About Argo
All of the data is publicly accessible.

Last edited by MotoGeek; 11-18-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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post #89 of 89 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 05:30 AM
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Electronics damaged by EMP can not be turned back on, even with glowy necklaces.
circuits are burnt out.

world wide EMP is pretty much impossible to achieve unless you blanket the earth atmosphere with nuclear blasts. Even then you'd have spots where some electronics can survive.
Well I def could not have said, I think it would be awesome if a mystery device of unknown origin somehow turned off all of the lights and electricity in the world all at once, except for these little necklaces...

Worldwide emp is much easier for people to figure out.

And shorter.



Anyways, it is a pointless debate as it was a reference to a show, albeit really interesting show, end of story.

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