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Old 11-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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May we please bring this forum back to the subject of 'Lotus' cars? This is a car 'forum' and not a subject forum for politicial debate.

Thank You
It is in in "Other". Until the mods decide differently, just about anything is OK here. Keeps the riffraff out of the Lotus fora.

I suggest if this blather bothers you, and you only want to read stuff about Lotus cars, don't read any threads in "Other'.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The best way to argue with idiots is to ignore them. I am most skeptical of people who know without a doubt they are right.

Later guys.
Like pundits on both sides who argue by soundbite and ad hominem attacks.

Address the issue through logical discussion. That is hard to do when the left can only call you racist and refer back to how old people will die and children will starve if we don't give them big government.

The whole it's big government or nihilism argument doesn't work. People did fine for many years, decades, centuries, millenia, without big government. It's the overdependence on big government that is bringing us to the brink because we have lost what it meant to be self sufficient and responsible.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The reason for the coming collapse of America is not because of the any issues you talk about - it's because the majority of Americans couldn't even have a semi-informed discussion about these things

A country's core is its people. If the masses are uneducated and lazy, who cares who was elected? Politicians cannot fix the problems caused by this, no matter what they say. Should we think China is catching up to us because they have elected the correct people into office - it's because the people are hungry and willing to do anything and everything to succeed, despite their crappy gov't

Instead of fighting about Republican/Democrat/whatever - we seriously need to figure out a way to make our population more intelligent and able to compete in the global economy - everything else can follow.
You my friend have nailed it. Spot on, and because of this reason we are truly screwed. Try changing that many million idiots. It's impossible.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Waaaaaaaah!!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Mommy a black man is president again!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Waaaaah!
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
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+1
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
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How you do know you won a debate with a leftist progressive?

You get called a racist.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:38 AM   #27 (permalink)
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You my friend have nailed it. Spot on, and because of this reason we are truly screwed. Try changing that many million idiots. It's impossible.
It's impossible to make things idiot-proof because idiots are so resourceful!
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:21 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Waaaaaaaah!!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Mommy a black man is president again!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Waaaaah!
Viewing most things through the prism of race results in a pretty narrow point of view.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Viewing most things through the prism of race results in a pretty narrow point of view.
Actually makes you blind, IMHO.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:28 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Waaaaaaaah!!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Mommy a black man is president again!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Waaaaah!
Umm, while there may be a splinter about who his Dad was, I think we are all pretty on-board that his mother was Ann Dunham, a white girl.

He's half white too.

And Tiger Woods isn't "black" either.

I can disagree with Obama just as much as I can a jewish Fillipino from Wyoming named Cletus McDougal.

I think alot of youngish (30-40ish) white people don't see the world through the race glasses. We weren't taught to see the world through them.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:02 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Umm, while there may be a splinter about who his Dad was, I think we are all pretty on-board that his mother was Ann Dunham, a white girl.

He's half white too.

And Tiger Woods isn't "black" either.

I can disagree with Obama just as much as I can a jewish Fillipino from Wyoming named Cletus McDougal.

I think alot of youngish (30-40ish) white people don't see the world through the race glasses. We weren't taught to see the world through them.
It's pretty obvious nowadays that the only racists are the people who call other people racist. They are the ones who are stuck in that way of thinking while the rest of us have moved on to bigger and better things... like how MLK Jr. taught us about judging people by the contents of their character.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:51 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Waaaaaaaah!!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Mommy a black man is president again!!, Waaaaaah!!!, Waaaaah!
Actually, I will benefit from this president more than if Romney was elected. Had you understood my positions and personal views, you'd know that. How can one view this thread and still believe this is a pro-republican notion being put forth?

When the election was called. I sat down and pondered for several minutes, and said "ok."

A few minutes passed and I smiled.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:11 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Idiot: "Obama faced massive racism, and it made it that much harder to get elected."

Response: Can we for once actually use the word "racism" as it is actually defined, instead of calling anything race related as racism.

Clinton got 83 percent of the black vote in 1992 and 84 percent in 1996; Al Gore got 90 percent in 2000; John Kerry got 88 percent in 2004. Obama captured 95 percent in 2008, and 93 percent in 2012.

These facts are a bit inconvenient for idiot's argument. Did he face racism? Well we know there are racists and people simply prejudiced against (fill in the blank) ethnicity.

Idiot: "It is the expanding federal government who is to thank for our growth and sustained low unemployment rates."

Response As I mentioned before, this notion is popular because you can instantly quantify the results of your spending and you can take credit for it. However, money taxed is money that the private sector would have otherwise used to........CREATE JOBS! To keep the big government scam going, government has to continue to grow just to maintain the same results YoY. We now have a federal income tax, social security tax, medicare tax.... That is money stolen from the top 53 percent of earners and wasted inefficiently on social programs. Per dollar, private sector spending is vastly more efficient. Inefficiency provides many people public sector jobs that create no wealth.

So can you really say we "need" a big federal government? Google Image Result for http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/US_Unemployment_1800-1890.gif
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I've tried to stay out of this because it's a fools' errand, but two things I'll comment on:

The amount that Romney spent for fireworks: President Obama Inauguration Cost $170 Million - ABC News

And, a collapse doesn't mean an overnight event. The Roman Empire collpased, but it took about 400 years, according to Wikipedia (which you can believe or not, but even a rudimentary knowledge of history would suggest it was a long downard arc).
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Actually, I will benefit from this president more than if Romney was elected. Had you understood my positions and personal views, you'd know that. How can one view this thread and still believe this is a pro-republican notion being put forth?

When the election was called. I sat down and pondered for several minutes, and said "ok."

A few minutes passed and I smiled.
+1, I too will profit greatly with Obama still in office. And have so for the past four years. what happened Tuesday will change are country forever, I am a commercial business broker and I've sold a lot of businesses these past four years and will sell a lot more these next four years because Obama is still in office and I still voted for Romney. because I believe I should put my country first instead of myself.

Obama won the election for one simple reason, whenever you rob Peter to pay Paul,Paul will vote for the robber every time.

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Old 11-11-2012, 12:50 PM   #36 (permalink)
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About Global warming, if we set aside the mass media attention on the subject, many of us remember greenhouse gas theory and global warming being taught to us in grade school. Back then (early 80's) it was a CFC issue.

.
Just to refresh your memory, CFCs were banned for a different reason. The CFCs are linked to depletion of the ozone (O3) layer high in the upper atmosphere.

According to Wikipedia, "the ozone layer prevents most harmful UVB wavelengths (280315 nm) of ultraviolet light (UV light) from passing through the Earth's atmosphere ". UV radiation can cause ionization, and therefore " It is suspected that a variety of biological consequences such as increases in skin cancer, cataracts,[3] damage to plants, and reduction of plankton populations in the ocean's photic zone may result from the increased UV exposure due to ozone depletion."

Plus it will fade your Lotus' paint very quickly.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
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@Grunschev:

It's just silly to deal with the number of fallacies in your logic. I consider myself a conservative and having forgotten more about mathematics than most will ever learn, i found your arguments offensive if not downright antagonistic. Certainly not productive, as you've not offered solutions.

Using words like all, never are very extreme and are almost always incorrect, if you think about it one could come up with any number of examples that would contradict your own statements that use the word "ALL"!!!

@Westrock:
Thanks for the chart, its rather alarming. Everyone should be alarmed at this chart regardless of political view point.

@LateApexer: +1
Additionally we must come together as a nation and stand united.

Regarding government, I believe the states should ratify an amendment whereby the house/senate can not propose Bills with multiple items. STOP THE PORK !!! And legislation should not exceed 10 pages typewritten of 12pt font or 3000 words. This way all legislation is easily comprehensible and understandable by everyone.

just my .02
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Idiot: "Obama faced massive racism, and it made it that much harder to get elected."
Really? He faced MASSIVE racism?

Even with his 95% capture of the Black vote, he still needed as many white votes as he can get to win. Black votes alone won't put him in office, by sheer demographic population of the U.S, there aren't enough black votes to put him in office without white votes.

Obama got 43% of the white vote in 2008, does that sound like a MASSIVE wave of racist white people voting against him? Figure in the natural split of Dems/Repubs and it's not really out of whack with how the votes would have fallen anyway even if both candidates were white.

Now, turn it around and make it a bit uncomfortable for you race baiters who only see it from one side.

The fact that Obama got 95% of the black vote can be seen as racism from the black community if you want to be objective about it. There are enough videos of interviews where blacks were openly saying they are voting for him because he's black and no other reason, regardless of party affiliation.

That sounds like a decision based solely on race, don't it? Conversely, they didn't vote for Romney, a white guy, because he's not black. Sound familiar? Yep, sure sounds like racism, don't it? But you libs don't ever want to touch that, do you? Because blacks can't be racist, only whites can be racist.

So the black population can say whatever they want, including the ones on Jimmy Kimmel who were asked, "What would it take for Romney to get your vote?" The response? "Turn black." Imagine if it had been reversed. The national outrage would not end until we had a few riots in every urban center in America.

Race is an issue, I will never deny it, but to see it everywhere, and point out race in everything where it isn't an issue is something race pimps and race baiters have to do. Without making everything a race issue, their very purpose and existence goes away. They become irrelevant and they have no hustle. What would Al Sharpton do without creating racial strife where there is none in America? Go back to being an obscure and nationally irrelevant reverend? He doesn't even have a congregation or a church. Nope, that can't happen. Not to the professionals at Race Bait, Incorporated.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I suggest that the USA needs to launch a great stimulus program to free us not only from imported oil, but free us from oil to the greatest extent possible. A nice side effect will be the reduction of climate change effects, but the primary effect will be strategic. Such a program could put the US back in a position of primacy like we had in 50 years ago.
Oops: I was wrong. You did offer at least one solution.

I do agree with developing energy sources that are better than oil. So far none exist that are cost effective on a large enough scale to meet the demands of our energy needs. At least in my limited knowledge of the subject.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Developing alternative energy sources is an important goal but it cannot be done INSTEAD of developing domestic sources of oil. We are at the mercy of foreign powers because we refuse to exploit our own natural resources. Get America on solid footing with less dependence on foreign oil, use the resources we free up and reinvest domestically all we want on green energy or alternative energy.

As far as stimulus goes... yeah... okay, let me get this straight, in simplistic terms:

We all give money to the federal government, via taxes, to be processed through multiple bureaucracies and layers within the bureaucracies, then they work up some formula on how to give back that money, who to give it to, how much each person gets, then they go through bureaucracies again, to process and deliver the moneys back, via checks, and through the mail... and the recipients, who are the ones who didn't really pay into it, get to spend it on frivolous purchases so the economy can be "stimulated"?

Is that about right? So how much money and time is wasted in the intervening processes from the original earners up the chain and down the chain to the recipients? Instead of having the earners spend their dollar, which has zero waste, dollar for dollar, you now have the recipients spending mere cents on the dollars after it's all said and done, of OTHER people's money.

Remember the last round of stimulus checks? Yeah, means tested. I made enough money that I didn't even qualify for the whole amount. Mine was prorated down to something that wasn't even really worth the time to go to the bank to cash. Why even bother? They took my tax money and gave it to those who didn't pay taxes because they were the ones who qualified for the whole amount. So, work more, get less, while the ones with no liability, get your money to spend.

It's not just waste, it's REDISTRIBUTION of wealth.

From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.

Fits right in with Karl Marx, Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Saul Alinsky, and other luminaries of freedom and human rights, don't it?
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