Cowardly censors

[davecarama]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

'Most' people have? Really?

Average number of posts per day here vs 'there?'

That's like somebody saying "I don't know anybody who supports policy X." And therefore concluding that NOBODY supports policy X. Only to find out later, and be dumbfounded by, Policy X winning in referendum.

You must be counting the "picture of the day threads" and the "I hate this site or I hate that site" posts here, oh and you can't forget the admin arguing with the member posts. I had to step in yesterday and recommend the admin just close a thread because it had gotten that far out of hand.

I don't see it as anyone "winning in referendum" I think eventually they both will exist at the same time, most likely crossreferencing information and sharing members.

This back and forth about which is better is juvenile to be quite honest with you. And it is putting the admins here under pressure to "justify" their business decissions... which they shouldn't have to do because they have made it quite clear to us that this site is a business, not a community.

LT Pros:
5 years of good information
lots of posts
Lots of technical posts
lots of members

LT Cons:
No longer a community, it is strictly a money making business
Less interest in what the community wants (notice I said less, they still listen, when it fits with the "business plan")
Forum rules (edits, topics, etc)

TL Pros:
Community driven (most decissions are discussed and decided on by the group as a whole)
Money is not the #1 the community is
Lots of posts
Lots of members
Notes are not sensored for content (keeping in mind that everything is kept to a PG-13 level)

TL Cons:
Not as many technical posts yet (increasing every day)
Not as many members (this can be seen as a pro too)

[MNlotus]

idk, all i know is the members rate is increasing pretty fast and alot of the great people that used to be on this site are over there now

[davecarama]

Originally Posted by MNlotus

idk, all i know is the members rate is increasing pretty fast and alot of the great people that used to be on this site are over there now

They are in both places. Just inactive over here and participating over there. Trust me, they are in both places.

It is all good, and the forum battle will end eventually.

I am just surprised the moderators let this crap go on. It is so easy to avoid, just remove the negative threads completely. There is really no sense in all of the bickering. It is a car forum, not a bitch fest.

That said, I am going to the track in 6 hours to drive go karts... then again tomorrow morning to drive my car... and the next day too.

I do more track events than you so there!

DC

[Administrator]

Originally Posted by davecarama

They are in both places. Just inactive over here and participating over there. Trust me, they are in both places.

It is all good, and the forum battle will end eventually.

I am just surprised the moderators let this crap go on. It is so easy to avoid, just remove the negative threads completely. There is really no sense in all of the bickering. It is a car forum, not a bitch fest.

That said, I am going to the track in 6 hours to drive go karts... then again tomorrow morning to drive my car... and the next day too.

I do more track events than you so there!

DC

It's good to see a voice of reason again. You have said some things that I wish I could have said. Thanks for being honest and candid. Enjoy the karting today!

Nadeem

[MNlotus]

this is all a little confusing to me, i still enjoy this site

[evomind]

ive been a member a good 5 years so i feel i have the right to chime in here on a few things....

i keep hearing how this forum was trying to "extort" money from their vendors and when the vendors "decided they didnt want to advertise anymore were told to pay up or be banned."
omg.
those vendors, or at least 1 in particular, was way behind in MONEY HE ALREADY OWED. when the owner asks for payment, how is this extortion???
as an owner of the board, if someone owes you money associated to that board, whats the incentive for a vendor or former vendor to pay you back if they are still allowed to post freely???
gee, wont you get thrown out of your house eventually if you dont pay the mortgage? wont they repossess your car if you fall far enough behind?
man, that banker is extorting me every month. i cant take much more, i might go to the feds...

i keep hearing censorship complaints etc.....i seem to remember hearing the same complaints on this board when the previous regime ran it. i seem to recall some serious conflict of interest allegations directed at the owner.
every board/forum has growing pains, i guess. this board went from being a small cultish board to being a huge chat site. fine and dandy, but problems arise. they have b4 and will again.
i remember when no one even knew who the moderators were here. i remember logging in some mornings and threads were so hacked up and no one knew by whom or why.
the point is, we all grow. members evolve as do boards. dont worry abt it.
just give it a chance.

i keep hearing how it wasnt a business when the old regime ran it.
really? it wasnt? i remember seeing banners from day one promoting certain companies. so what. a guy has a right to make a few bucks if he can, i never faulted or begrudged anyone for that, but not sure where all this "humanitarianism" ideology is coming from. a board was created, ad space sold, certain vendors were pushed, the board grew and was eventually sold for a nice chunk of change.
how is that not a business? again, im not begrudging that fact, just sayin.
ask the old emperor what he would do if someone didnt pay him. im sure he has bills to pay too.

now theres a push to join the "other" site. whats it called? oh yeah...."theres somewhere else where we can TALK about LOTUS cars while wearing our polka DOTted panties while we COMmunicate"
something like that.
again, sounds like a business venture to me. and again, i dont begrudge anyone who works hard and is good at what they do. i wonder how much that board will sell for....oh, but its not abt the money.

now there is a new board to go to where you can post your cat pictures, tell everyone what your doing while you recuperate from your toe surgery, debate trivial matters for weeks, and generally pat yourself on the back and bask in your own light. thats great. ive been contacted by no less than a dozen members telling me the secret handshake to get in. i guess if and when i have something to say, maybe ill drop in. i guess i just dont post as much anymore.

id like to see the sniping stop. i have many friends on the new board and many friends here. theres room enough. i guess i just dont understand why ppl get so bitter over this stuff. is this really all some folks have going on in their life that they follow the behind the scenes politics BS of chat boards??
well, if thats all u have to worry abt, may i suggest "all my children." its a soap opera my mom used to watch. i think some of you might like it.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by davecarama

They are in both places. Just inactive over here and participating over there. Trust me, they are in both places.

It is all good, and the forum battle will end eventually.

I am just surprised the moderators let this crap go on. It is so easy to avoid, just remove the negative threads completely. There is really no sense in all of the bickering. It is a car forum, not a bitch fest.

That said, I am going to the track in 6 hours to drive go karts... then again tomorrow morning to drive my car... and the next day too.

I do more track events than you so there!

DC

you mean the moderators here that run the other board?
haha. good one. COI?

[Administrator]

Originally Posted by evomind

you mean the moderators here that run the other board?
haha. good one. COI?

You made some great points and once again it is good to see somebody thinking straight through all of this sniping and so-called "warfare" (sorry I had to do it). It seems a couple of the moderators here are still flying straight and doing what they are supposed to do on both sites and I applaud their volunteered efforts. The team will definitely be changing a bit, but the core who chose to stay impartial and do the right thing in this will remain. We will move forwards and continue to provide members with the best Lotus discussion site out there. Cheers to the great members of this site! (and even some of the ones who are on the other)

Nadeem

[Spudboy]

Originally Posted by evomind

ive been a member a good 5 years so i feel i have the right to chime in here on a few things....

i keep hearing how this forum was trying to "extort" money from their vendors and when the vendors "decided they didnt want to advertise anymore were told to pay up or be banned."
omg.
those vendors, or at least 1 in particular, was way behind in MONEY HE ALREADY OWED. when the owner asks for payment, how is this extortion???
as an owner of the board, if someone owes you money associated to that board, whats the incentive for a vendor or former vendor to pay you back if they are still allowed to post freely???
gee, wont you get thrown out of your house eventually if you dont pay the mortgage? wont they repossess your car if you fall far enough behind?
man, that banker is extorting me every month. i cant take much more, i might go to the feds...

i keep hearing censorship complaints etc.....i seem to remember hearing the same complaints on this board when the previous regime ran it. i seem to recall some serious conflict of interest allegations directed at the owner.
every board/forum has growing pains, i guess. this board went from being a small cultish board to being a huge chat site. fine and dandy, but problems arise. they have b4 and will again.
i remember when no one even knew who the moderators were here. i remember logging in some mornings and threads were so hacked up and no one knew by whom or why.
the point is, we all grow. members evolve as do boards. dont worry abt it.
just give it a chance.

i keep hearing how it wasnt a business when the old regime ran it.
really? it wasnt? i remember seeing banners from day one promoting certain companies. so what. a guy has a right to make a few bucks if he can, i never faulted or begrudged anyone for that, but not sure where all this "humanitarianism" ideology is coming from. a board was created, ad space sold, certain vendors were pushed, the board grew and was eventually sold for a nice chunk of change.
how is that not a business? again, im not begrudging that fact, just sayin.
ask the old emperor what he would do if someone didnt pay him. im sure he has bills to pay too.

now theres a push to join the "other" site. whats it called? oh yeah...."theres somewhere else where we can TALK about LOTUS cars while wearing our polka DOTted panties while we COMmunicate"
something like that.
again, sounds like a business venture to me. and again, i dont begrudge anyone who works hard and is good at what they do. i wonder how much that board will sell for....oh, but its not abt the money.

now there is a new board to go to where you can post your cat pictures, tell everyone what your doing while you recuperate from your toe surgery, debate trivial matters for weeks, and generally pat yourself on the back and bask in your own light. thats great. ive been contacted by no less than a dozen members telling me the secret handshake to get in. i guess if and when i have something to say, maybe ill drop in. i guess i just dont post as much anymore.

id like to see the sniping stop. i have many friends on the new board and many friends here. theres room enough. i guess i just dont understand why ppl get so bitter over this stuff. is this really all some folks have going on in their life that they follow the behind the scenes politics BS of chat boards??
well, if thats all u have to worry abt, may i suggest "all my children." its a soap opera my mom used to watch. i think some of you might like it.

+100

[davecarama]

evomind,

you have always been free and open about expressing your opinion, even when it is off the wall, but this time, you are FAR off the wall.

I am on neither side... well technically I am on both sides since I am a member of both forums and participate at both. But I never said horrible things about either... well, I guess I said cons of both, but there is really nothing wrong with what I said and Nadeem even went as far as thanking me.

I also never said a word about vendors payments (quite frankly I could care less). I do however consider them friends, having known them on this forum for however many years now, and wish they were not chucked asside and had their posting privlidges revoked. ESPECIALLY since they were one of the original vendors selling goodies for our unique cars. SDD has been good to us (the forum and it's members). Keeping vendor and member accounts seperate might be a good recommendation for the admin here. ( <- see what I did there? Not bitching about the site and it's members, but stating a flaw and a potential solution).

And the statement about letting this crap go on? The two forums are so very different. One is run as a community and one as a business. Neither way is right or wrong. TL decided to let the community post what it wants as long as they keep it clean. LT decided to remove all abusive content (abusive to the reputation of the forum). MY point (which you decided to miss because you get all "red mist" on us and can't see the real message when you do that) is that Admin is not a moderator, he is the BOSS moderator. How often do you see the CEO in an argument with an intern? When the head guy starts getting into public arguements with a member, it is:
A. none of pour business
B. stupid to drop down to their level in a public forum

As far as sensorship. LOTS of notes have been "altered" but it is in response to something inappropriate for the "head guy" to say in the first place.

Bottom line, this thread and all like it should be "moderated" immediately. That is the way it works in other forums, why the hell should the moderators and "admin" argue out loud here? Take the high road, keep the peace, and remove the crap threads that have no place being here in the first place.

COI? Jesus dude. Conflict of interest to self implode on a web site? Yes! EXACTLY MY POINT!

The people on both sites are frikkin tired of this crap. People like you attacking people like me... fighting the same side of the same battle!

No I am right... No I am right...

You my friend fight the fight because you like to fight, not because you have a stand one way or the other. You have always been that way and you will never change. Not that I am asking you to. You have had some entertaining posts here, just this time, I think you are causing more damage than good with your anticks.

Dave

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Administrator

You made some great points and once again it is good to see somebody thinking straight through all of this sniping and so-called "warfare" (sorry I had to do it). It seems a couple of the moderators here are still flying straight and doing what they are supposed to do on both sites and I applaud their volunteered efforts. The team will definitely be changing a bit, but the core who chose to stay impartial and do the right thing in this will remain. We will move forwards and continue to provide members with the best Lotus discussion site out there. Cheers to the great members of this site! (and even some of the ones who are on the other)

Nadeem

its not all roses nadeem. keep in mind we dont make money off of you, you make money off of us. pay attention to what your folks on this board are telling you. they are quite a weird, persnickity, overly sensitive bunch, but generally good people.
they are your investment. treat them as such and take care of them.
word to the wise nadeem....i know you run/manage a lot of boards but when you start treating people as individuals you will be much more successful.

[lotusport]

Originally Posted by Administrator, from locked thread

It's too bad you didn't catch any of the posts in the last few days where things were explained. The baiting and member scraping has to stop. I am not interested in a soap opera or battling with "E-Thugs". I will continue to take the high road and let the members make their own decisions.

Nadeem

Nadeem is the worst kind of censor: one who deletes all criticism of himself and his policies. This is the USA, where freedom if speech is guaranteed. All Nadeem is doing is banning people from criticizing him and closing or locking threads where criticism is exhibited. This is not "take the high road and let the members make their own decisions!"

His self-justification is appalling. I'm probably not needed here...

[davecarama]

Originally Posted by evomind

its not all roses nadeem. keep in mind we dont make money off of you, you make money off of us. pay attention to what your folks on this board are telling you. they are quite a weird, persnickity, overly sensitive bunch, but generally good people.
they are your investment. treat them as such and take care of them.
word to the wise nadeem....i know you run/manage a lot of boards but when you start treating people as individuals you will be much more successful.

See... you agree with me.
AND you posted it in a thread.
Most of these are usually "censored" or removed, some that are done tastefully are not.

Weird to see you fighting on BOTH sides...

Keep on fighting the fight. there are more people to hit when you are on the offence for both teams!

[dma550]

I seem to remember a mass exodus from "...pure sportscar..." as they tried to clamp down on all of the laying hens in the coop as well. In truth, a community is only worth the sum of it's contributors, any person can put up a BBS.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by davecarama

evomind,

you have always been free and open about expressing your opinion, even when it is off the wall, but this time, you are FAR off the wall.

I am on neither side... well technically I am on both sides since I am a member of both forums and participate at both. But I never said horrible things about either... well, I guess I said cons of both, but there is really nothing wrong with what I said and Nadeem even went as far as thanking me.

I also never said a word about vendors payments (quite frankly I could care less). I do however consider them friends, having known them on this forum for however many years now, and wish they were not chucked asside and had their posting privlidges revoked. ESPECIALLY since they were one of the original vendors selling goodies for our unique cars. SDD has been good to us (the forum and it's members). Keeping vendor and member accounts seperate might be a good recommendation for the admin here. ( <- see what I did there? Not bitching about the site and it's members, but stating a flaw and a potential solution).

And the statement about letting this crap go on? The two forums are so very different. One is run as a community and one as a business. Neither way is right or wrong. TL decided to let the community post what it wants as long as they keep it clean. LT decided to remove all abusive content (abusive to the reputation of the forum). MY point (which you decided to miss because you get all "red mist" on us and can't see the real message when you do that) is that Admin is not a moderator, he is the BOSS moderator. How often do you see the CEO in an argument with an intern? When the head guy starts getting into public arguements with a member, it is:
A. none of pour business
B. stupid to drop down to their level in a public forum

As far as sensorship. LOTS of notes have been "altered" but it is in response to something inappropriate for the "head guy" to say in the first place.

Bottom line, this thread and all like it should be "moderated" immediately. That is the way it works in other forums, why the hell should the moderators and "admin" argue out loud here? Take the high road, keep the peace, and remove the crap threads that have no place being here in the first place.

COI? Jesus dude. Conflict of interest to self implode on a web site? Yes! EXACTLY MY POINT!

The people on both sites are frikkin tired of this crap. People like you attacking people like me... fighting the same side of the same battle!

No I am right... No I am right...

You my friend fight the fight because you like to fight, not because you have a stand one way or the other. You have always been that way and you will never change. Not that I am asking you to. You have had some entertaining posts here, just this time, I think you are causing more damage than good with your anticks.

Dave

dave....honestly i hardly even know where to begin.
i qouted a fragment from a sentence of one of your posts and you turn it into war and peace.
if you read my earlier post above, my basic message was to tell everyone to chill out and give things a chance. im sure things will settle on both sides of the fence.

seriously...where do you get off saying "im doing more damage than good with my anticks?"
WHAT ANTICS???????????
WHERE DID I "ATTACK" YOU OR ANYONE ELSE?????????

furthermore i dont "fight just to fight." i didnt even know i was fighting anyone or anything. i think you confuse "outspoken" with "combative." there is a difference.
im sorry im very misunderstood on this board. i believe any of the several people who actually know me personally would vouch for my character and to me, thats most important. but if you wanna hate on me, thats ok. i have nothing against you and i wish you well in all your endeavors. i just dont understand where 75% of your post comes from.

mike

[nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by lotusport

This is the USA, where freedom if speech is guaranteed.

But you have to understand this is a private board. Nothing at all is guaranteed other than the right you have to post somewhere else if you don't feel it's fair here.

I don't condone anything or anyone and am not suggesting people leave, i'm just stating a fact. It's a private board and can run as they want.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by davecarama

See... you agree with me.
AND you posted it in a thread.
Most of these are usually "censored" or removed, some that are done tastefully are not.

Weird to see you fighting on BOTH sides...

Keep on fighting the fight. there are more people to hit when you are on the offence for both teams!

not sure how to take that.

im not fighting. i want to see randys new board do well, and id like to see ppl happy here too.
what i said to nadeem i meant with respect and with genuine good intentions for all parties involved.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by nsxmatt

But you have to understand this is a private board. Nothing at all is guaranteed other than the right you have to post somewhere else if you don't feel it's fair here.

I don't condone anything or anyone and am not suggesting people leave, i'm just stating a fact. It's a private board and can run as they want.

yes, i seem to recall reading words to that effect many times over the last 5 years.

[davecarama]

75% of my post comes from your post above #27 where you "qouted a fragment from a sentence of one of your posts"

Yes, taken out of text you can say the mods on both sites are to blame, but there are plenty that are only on this site and do nothing to remove these threads too.

MY point was that coming on here and posting rebutles and negative stuff to members does more hurt than good and if ANY censoring goes on, it should be removing crap threads like this one faster. This one was started a week ago, moderators did participate with great information and VERY LT sided (and rightfully so) admin comes back with subliminal messages... Just close the thread, and remove it already. What good is it doing?

PS, I like you fine BTW, sorry I came across so... cross. I'm just tired of this stupid banter. I may have to pull an ACE10 and go into a year of silence

[MaineLotus]

There's always Monkey, where you can post ANYTHING you want. Well, almost...

Seriously though, every site has purpose and I'm sure everyone will settle in somewhere.