Degenerative discs/low back/leg pain

[qball]

Anyone suffer from this?

I'm at my whit's end. Seeing the orthopedist tomorrow.

Diagnosed with degenerative discs in my lower back/sacrum area 4-5 years ago. Was prescribed Darvocet for bad days... excercise, stretching... and told basically nothing they could to.

Now it's progressed to the point my right quadricep is totally numb. I have shooting pains in my quads at night and throughout the day. I can't stand or walk for long periods without the pain starting to radiate up my back.

Progressing towards my left leg now.

I noticed shooting pains while driving now (pressing in clutch, etc.).

800mg prescritiption Ibuprofen doesn't touch it, nor does Tylenol or Alieve.

Stretching, excercise, massage have only minor relief... hours if at all.

I was put on a steroid pack last week and Celebrex after that concluded... no effect.

So here's my question...

Anyone have this and have it operated on to relieve the pain and symptoms. It's affecting my daily life to the point where it's really aggravating.

This f-ing sucks!

Q

[Mr. Know]

I have 2 degen disks in my lower back. It hurts ALOT when I don't exercise (situps / legups / crunches). Its almost amazing how much they help. I've been so bad before that I could barely get onto the table for x-rays...I had to be helped just to lay down. I had some strong meds to help stop the pain, but now all I do is abdominal and lower back exercises to stop it when I start feeling it coming back.

Basically, I've found that the muscles will support the spine (even with the degeneration) when they are in shape. Slacking off = LOTS of pain. I know when I get older its going to be a major problem I'm going to have to deal with...probably with surgery.

I hope you can find some relief soon!

[DPM]

Originally Posted by qball

Anyone suffer from this?

I'm at my whit's end. Seeing the orthopedist tomorrow.

Diagnosed with degenerative discs in my lower back/sacrum area 4-5 years ago. Was prescribed Darvocet for bad days... excercise, stretching... and told basically nothing they could to.

Now it's progressed to the point my right quadricep is totally numb. I have shooting pains in my quads at night and throughout the day. I can't stand or walk for long periods without the pain starting to radiate up my back.

Progressing towards my left leg now.

I noticed shooting pains while driving now (pressing in clutch, etc.).

800mg prescritiption Ibuprofen doesn't touch it, nor does Tylenol or Alieve.

Stretching, excercise, massage have only minor relief... hours if at all.

I was put on a steroid pack last week and Celebrex after that concluded... no effect.

So here's my question...

Anyone have this and have it operated on to relieve the pain and symptoms. It's affecting my daily life to the point where it's really aggravating.

This f-ing sucks!

Q

If you are having Quad pain or numbness it's from a higher disc level, L2 or L3, not the lower ones. Celebrex isn't going to do squat for a disc pathology, great for arthritis, it's a COX 2 inhibitor with the risk of a stroke. Darvocet is only going to mask the pain at best and do absolutely nothing for fixing the problem. If it's a disc, which I think it is from your symptoms, then Advil, Tylenol and Aleve aren't going to do any good for pain relief. You are experiencing pure nerve pain and it's really hard to mask. The pain you are getting in the other leg is probably from overuse by trying to keep as much weight as you can off the sore leg. They probably gave you a Medrol DosePak and it works sometimes if its a minor disc bulge, then it's on to epidural injections. Stretching and exercises aren't going to help with a disc injury, it's mechanical pressure and the pressure has to be released.

I see this everyday. Did they do a recent MRI or at the very least an x-ray study? If not, get going on that, no point in guessing. If they decide to do an epidural, which if you continue with the medical route, this would be the next likely step before any surgery, they are going to order an MRI anyway.

I treat full blown herniated disc with ultrasound, spinal manipulation and flexion-distraction and have a 98% success rate. Patients can also add an inversion table at home to help relieve disc pressure in between treatments.

If you want a more conservative treatment and no invasive procedures then get yourself to a chiropractor (preferably a Palmer graduate) that does those types of treatment I mentioned and get on with it. If it's going to work then you should see a dramatic improvement in no more than 2 weeks. It's going to take time. Back surgery should be your very last option.

Back surgery has a very low success rate if you look at the numbers 2-5 years out. The first year or two it isn't too bad but once the bone spurs and scar tissue start to develop, the symptoms can typically return and be as bad or worse.

I am currently taking care of 3 new patients in the past 2 weeks that are all "failed back syndromes" (surgeries with bad outcomes). One has foot drop, another sciatica with lower back pain and the other has sciatica in both legs! They were all referred to me by orthopedists or internists.

I've been doing this 25 years and this is just the facts as I see them in my day to day clinical setting.

The ultimate decision is up to you. Now for the disclaimer....this is not medical advice just my opinion. Good luck whatever route you take.

[insane]

In Orlando, see Laura Rampil. She's a musculoskelletal (sp?) specialist.

[Serebo1]

Read Healing Back Pain by John Sarno before making any decisions where surgery is concerned. I have a "bulging disc" and was flat on my back for over a month. I was told I needed surgery. No surgery, and no pain now.

[ruggedbert]

Go see a good chiropractor, Or wait 3 years until I'm done with my schooling! Please stay away from surgery.

[Icedog_16]

I know how you feel, Q. I've had a herniated disc in my neck at C6-7 for the past few years. I've been getting chiropractic care nearly the entire time. To make things worse, my brother and I were rear-ended on the way to work last July. Basically, I've had no feeling in the first two fingers of my left and and the lateral aspect of my arm and my upper back and neck are constantly in spasm. My triceps at one point was denervated to the point that I had difficulty getting out of my Elise - I could only do triceps extensions with 25 lbs with the left arm versus 75 lbs with the right arm.

I've done all the conservative treatment (chiro, NSAIDs, muscle relaxants, massage, physical therapy, stretching, etc), to no avail. I've even had spinal injections - four in all - and I did get back some of the feeling in my middle finger . But, about 6 months removed from the injections, the benefits are beginning to wane. I'm pretty certain that surgery will be required some time down the road. I was told by a neurosurgeon that I should get a fusion, but, like DPM said, I fear that a few years down the road I'll be worse off than I am now. I also have a few friends who are work comp attorneys and they've represented clients who've had fusions done and the stress that the fusion placed on the spine cause problems at the levels above and below the repair. Personally, I was willing to do arthroscopic laser discoplasty, but my health insurance will not cover it. You may want to look into it, though. There's a place here in Tampa that does it. Laser Spine Orthopedic Surgery - Spinal Surgery Experts I was quoted roughly $25K for the procedure if I wanted to pay for it myself. Depending on how I progress (regress?), I may wait it out until more health insurers cover the procedure as it becomes more mainstream and does not cost any more than a fusion.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope that my experience gives you some insight.

[Dragon]

The US Army issued me a herniated L3 and L4 here, but I have a narrowed spinal pathway (genetic) so no chance of operation. If I do any running my left leg goes numb. If I jump off anything over a few feed high and impact my legs I'll be on the ground. I bought one of those cheap electric muscle massage units and If I use it on the muscle area around the bad disks it helps strengthens them over time and alleviates a lot of pain. I can't do any sit up etc to strengthen up the muscles as it causes even more pain. I would suggest giving that a try.

[fzust]

My dad had a herniated disk and they did an outpatient surgery on him where they trim the extra material that is impinging the nerve and then pack the site full of steroids. He was up and about in a week or so and has had pretty good health since. Since he still races bikes at 67 years old, I'd say that's a pretty good improvement!

[slaughtr]

If your having leg pain, numbness, weakness or loss of reflexes it's serious. I don't know what your insurance situation is like but by this time you should have had an evaluation for an epidural steroid shot or surgery.

[waydui]

Originally Posted by qball

So here's my question...

Anyone have this and have it operated on to relieve the pain and symptoms. It's affecting my daily life to the point where it's really aggravating.

Q

Yes, I had all the same symptons you describe and I had surgery. The best thing I ever did.

I was so bad I couldn't lift my newborn son out of his crib and he weighed only 7 pounds!

I sneezed at work and ended up on the floor on my knees.

I resisted surgery for almost a year. I had an MRI that showed the injury and the surgeon was like the Fram Filter commercial: "You can pay me now or you can pay me later". He said I would end up with surgery. I tried drugs, exercise, chiro, physical therapy, etc... Nothing worked.

Finally, I had a laser discectomy. Limped into the hospital at 6AM and walked out at noon, sore but so much better.

They discovered that my right hip was 2 inches lower than my left because I was compensating so much for the pain.

I would recommend the surgery. I lived with the pain for 3 years and wasted so much time.

BTW, the surgery was done 13 years ago and I have never had another back problem.

Good luck.

Regards,
Wayne

Here's a link to the procedure I had done: Discectomy or microdiscectomy for a herniated disc

[kestrel74]

Dr. David Nahali Revolutionizes Back Pain Treatment for Orlandoers

[Jean]

qball,
I have the same problem, (in L3-L4-L5 area ) I tried a lot of things...but...
one day, I bought an inversion table and I begun to practice YOGA. (at home with a CD ) It's gonna REALLY help you...

Regards,
Jean

[Phantom]

I can relate- I have a herniated disc at L4 & L5-

Pain blocks worked for me, and they get progressively better with each treatment-

Also, I went to a really good chiropractic MD, and of all the thngs he'd do, him pulling on my legs seemed to help me the most- While a nurse held my torso, he'd grab my heal with one hand, and the top of my foot with the other, and he'd pull each leg like he was trying to pull me off the table- Now, if I'm hurtin', my wife will sometimes pull on my legs; it works-

Vioxx and Bextra both did wonders for me, but they're both gone as a result of the American way (corporate litigation)-

Ultimately, what worked best for me is getting out of an outside sales position that required frequent lifting of heavy and cumbersome objects-

Good luck- It will get better-

Disclaimer: I'm no doctor, just a guy with a bad back-

[The Captain]

I'm very sympathetic to your plight. I had an experience very similar to way dui. I suffered through 4 months of conservative treatment, pills, injections, manipulations, etc., etc. before begging my surgeon to operate. I had a double wammy of detiorating discs then ruptured L4 in a lifting accident.

Surgery immediately relieved the pain and it has yet to recur. That was 13 years ago. After surgery I was told by the Doctor that it was a very good thing that I had insisted. The outer band of the disc had splintered and embedded in the nerve and was slowly sawing through it.

I have scarring that can trigger extended cramping of my left calf that can leave me sore for days. Fortunately, it hasn't recurred in many years.

The surgery was so successful that I have since had a very successful cross country and downhill mountain biking stint, although I've recently retired from competition.

Good luck, I can remember only too well the sleepless nights, cramps while driving, using a podium on my desk at work because standing was better tha sitting.

[mikester]

Yes, this seems to be a really common malady. I was diagnosed with DDD in my cervical spine (C4-C5) about 5 years ago now, fortunately my symptoms have not been too extreme to this point (the pain was never too intense - I've never had to take anything stronger than a couple of advil for decent relief, and only rarely), but I do experience periodic, frequent mild to moderate numbness/tingling in my left hand and arm, as well as my left leg.

I've found that frequent exercise and stretching helps a lot (though I've had to give up cycling because the position and the time in that one position was exacerbating the problem). About a year ago I went through a course of treatment with disc decompression (Back in Action) at a local chiropractor, which helped (though it's hard to know which helped more, the treatment or stopping the cycling, which I was told to do by the chiro when he started the treatments). About 6 months after the treatment, I got on my bike and within 15 minutes the numbness was returning big-time, so I guess it's mostly the bike.

Anyway good luck and I hope you feel better real soon, you've got a lot of others right there with you.

[300hpMR2]

Wow, you guys are hard core if you're still driving a Lotus!

I've only had lower back issues once or twice in the past. figured it was a pulled muscle/spasm.

I have recently had another back episode. this one has lasted about 3 weeks and has waxed and waned. I'm still hoping it is a muscle issue. I started wondering whether it had anything to do with the seats in my Exige.

[dasmoofler]

I find an ice bag sometimes helps. Other times heat. Depends on whether I need to decrease inflammation or loosen things up.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by 300hpMR2

Wow, you guys are hard core if you're still driving a Lotus!

I've only had lower back issues once or twice in the past. figured it was a pulled muscle/spasm.

I have recently had another back episode. this one has lasted about 3 weeks and has waxed and waned. I'm still hoping it is a muscle issue. I started wondering whether it had anything to do with the seats in my Exige.

You should probably stop reading this thread - I've found that the more I think/fixate on the issue, the worse my symptoms feel...

[dwkoski]

Not going to practice medicine online but this is in the realm of my specialty. If you are interested, PM me and I will give you the name of an internationally respected expert in the Sarasota area...Dave