Is Hilary finished?

[NMRJock]

I think this series of pastor scandals has about run its course. I hope that it's faded to old news status by the time the general election comes along and people will decide their votes based on stances on issues.

[PhoneBoy]

Originally Posted by NMRJock

I think this series of pastor scandals has about run its course. I hope that it's faded to old news status by the time the general election comes along and people will decide their votes based on stances on issues.

That's not how we vote in America!

We vote based on a person's celebrity status, color, and sex more than we take into account their vision, experinece, and stand on important issues.

[LARRY]

Stand on important issues?

The two Democratic candidates have made their positions clear.

The Republican candidate, in his attempt to distance himself from the current President....has NOT.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Stand on important issues?

The two Democratic candidates have made their positions clear.

The Republican candidate, in his attempt to distance himself from the current President....has NOT.

LOL.

You are kidding right?

I'm still not clear on whether Hillary supports drivers licenses for illegals or not. I don't think she knows. And that's just for starters......

[NMRJock]

It seems like the entire Democratic strategy is to say that McCain is the same as Bush, which simply doesn't ring true as he has a long history of being very moderate and willing to take a stand against his party when he believes in something.

Then the entire platform for Obama seems to be "Change." There doesn't ever seem to be mention of change to what.

I hope that the democratic nomination is decided soon so that we can move onto more important things than who's preacher said what.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Stand on important issues?

The two Democratic candidates have made their positions clear.

The Republican candidate, in his attempt to distance himself from the current President....has NOT.

The only positions that the Democratic candidates have made clear is that they want to get elected. Fancy rhetoric, but no fact and/or workable plans to back them up.

"I will change things" isn't going to cut it. How, why, and what is important. Wanting to change something is one thing. Needing to change it is another. Being able to change things is still another. Being able to pay for that change is still another and probably the most important. So far, all I've heard is "I will change things"...

[LARRY]

Then you are not listening.

Or you don't want to hear what they are saying.

So that I don't have to cut and paste, which seems to really bother fishguy, read Obama's platform here:

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Home

and just to be fair, here is McCain's platform:

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Zeroskills

I think apk919 hit the nail right on the head.

Obama is a half-white, half-Kenyan, Hawai'i born, former expatriate, educated at Harvard Law.

When he joined Trinity Church of Christ, he was seeking to become a community organizer and local politician representing working class African Americans with whom he didn't have anything in common but superficially similar appearance.

I suspect his membership at Trinity Church of Christ is/was a pander to that community (Chicago's Southside black community). And that's OK. Pandering is a huge part of our political system, on both sides of the aisle.

I think the favored angle of attack, "Obama's church membership means he's unpatriotic and is racist" is disingenuous. The real story, "Obama panders to voters and uses manipulates identity politics to his advantage", is far too banal to inspire outrage.

Exactly.

.

[ezmoney]

Larry
Do you think that Obama will win in all 57 states?
While you're posting your reply I'll probably be putting my shotgun in my pickup truck!

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Then you are not listening.

Or you don't want to hear what they are saying.

So that I don't have to cut and paste, which seems to really bother fishguy, read Obama's platform here:

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Home

and just to be fair, here is McCain's platform:

John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

isnt that the same thing as cutting and pasting?

how does giving a link differ from cutting and pasting?

why dont you tell us what the differences are so that we know that YOU actually understand them, then there can be a discussion.
ignorance and stupidity bothers fishguy; its our nations biggest problem.
ignorance can be cured, stupidity cannot.

the above is not a personal attack, but an honest answer to larrys' statement.
if he takes it personally, i cannot be responsible for that. it is a general statement that is directed at a large group of people which may or may not include some people here.

[ivan1]

what do you expect from the guy who brought us this thread? (sorry about the link)

The Chinese LOTUS Smart Toilet Seat - Too Much? - Decide For Yourself

[Flash G]

I find it amuzing that the biggest digs the right-wing can get on Obama is that:

**His former pastor made 4 ridiculous comments over 20 years.

**Obama identified the wrong Nazi death camp that his great-uncle helped liberate.

**He doesn't wear a flag pin.

**He accidentally said he campaigned in 57 states.


Call me crazy, but I like to focus on substantive issues that really matter to this country like the biggest dig on John McCain:

**Supported the worst foreign policy blunder in a generation that's cost 4,000+ troops their lives, destroyed Iraq, strengthened Iran, killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians... and plans to continue on the same ill-conceived path.



This is why even Rupert Murdoch predicts a Democratic landslide in November.

The Democratic platform:
Health care reform
Rescind Bush tax cuts
A plan for exit of Iraq
Restore our image and strength around the world

The Republican platform:
We wear flag pins!
No crazy pastors! (Except Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Parsley...)

It's a tough choice in November.


.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by Flash G

I find it amuzing that the biggest digs the right-wing can get on Obama is that:

**His former pastor made 4 ridiculous comments over 20 years.

**Obama identified the wrong Nazi death camp that his great-uncle helped liberate.

**He doesn't wear a flag pin.

**He accidentally said he campaigned in 57 states.


Call me crazy, but I like to focus on substantive issues that really matter to this country like the biggest dig on John McCain:

**Supported the worst foreign policy blunder in a generation that's cost 4,000+ troops their lives, destroyed Iraq, strengthened Iran, killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians... and plans to continue on the same ill-conceived path.



This is why even Rupert Murdoch predicts a Democratic landslide in November.

The Democratic platform:
Health care reform
Rescind Bush tax cuts
A plan for exit of Iraq
Restore our image and strength around the world

The Republican platform:
We wear flag pins!
No crazy pastors! (Except Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Parsley...)

It's a tough choice in November.


.

Come on Flash, you can do better than that. You are now either being disingenuous or are not paying attention to the criticisms and concerns regarding Obama.

I tend to believe the former.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Come on Flash, you can do better than that. You are now either being disingenuous or are not paying attention to the criticisms and concerns regarding Obama.

I tend to believe the former.

Better than what? McCain turning 8 years of failed policies into 12?

What's the big concern about Obama?.. That he'll talk to our enemies?! (Like Kennedy & Reagan did with the "Evil empire")

Actually, the Bush administration negotiated with Libya's Qadaffi, a state sponsor of terrorism, and look how successful using the "carrot" instead of the "stick" became:

The World; How Qaddafi Became The Toast of Brussels - New York Times

Many Obama detractors seem to forget the history of their own party, using every cheap attack method to denigrate someone who actually has different ideas to change the country, even when their criticisms contradict their own beliefs.


.

[Rob T]

How much time do you have Flash?

Try watching this video, and tell me if he says anything here that would be of "concern"?

YouTube - Obama-Caucus4Priorities

[Flash G]

Stop spending billions in Iraq? Good.

Doesn't want to weaponize space? Good.

Reduce nukes and not develop nuke technology? Good.

Talk with Russia about taking ICBMs off of hair triggers? Good.

Stop wasteful spending on unproven missile defense technologies? Good.

Wow! He sounds a lot like that McCain guy!

"The Cold War ended almost twenty years ago, and the time has come to take further measures to reduce dramatically the number of nuclear weapons in the world's arsenals," McCain said.

AFP: McCain wants nuclear talks with China, Russia

More:

From the NYT:


"Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, distanced himself from the Bush administration on Tuesday by vowing to work more closely with Russia on nuclear disarmament and by calling for a reduction in tactical nuclear weapons in Europe.

In what his campaign promoted as a major speech on nuclear security policy, Mr. McCain told a largely friendly crowd at the University of Denver that he supported a legally binding accord between the two nations to replace verification requirements in the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or Start, which expires in 2009. The Bush administration has refused to accept such binding limits on nuclear weapons, which the administration's critics say has created paranoia in Moscow."



.

[Flash G]

...oh and to follow up to the original question of this thread - Is Hillary finished?...

Yup. It's officially over for her:

Florida, Michigan get all delegates but each gets half vote - CNN.com



.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by Flash G

I find it amuzing that the biggest digs the right-wing can get on Obama is that:

**His former pastor made 4 ridiculous comments over 20 years.

**Obama identified the wrong Nazi death camp that his great-uncle helped liberate.

**He doesn't wear a flag pin.

**He accidentally said he campaigned in 57 states.


Call me crazy, but I like to focus on substantive issues that really matter to this country like the biggest dig on John McCain:

**Supported the worst foreign policy blunder in a generation that's cost 4,000+ troops their lives, destroyed Iraq, strengthened Iran, killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians... and plans to continue on the same ill-conceived path.



This is why even Rupert Murdoch predicts a Democratic landslide in November.

The Democratic platform:
Health care reform
Rescind Bush tax cuts
A plan for exit of Iraq
Restore our image and strength around the world

The Republican platform:
We wear flag pins!
No crazy pastors! (Except Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Parsley...)

It's a tough choice in November.

You honestly call that a Democratic platform? Any idea, yours or theirs, as to HOW they are going to do those things?

I mean really, you BUY that? ANYBODY can say what people want to hear. And apparently people will believe what makes them feel good, even if it's absurd.

Remember, the Dems had a platform, much like you describe, when they took control of the legislature 18 months ago, and they've accomplished exactly...nothing. Not a thing.

Jeez, the only thing missing from the Dem 'platform' is 'for the children.'

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by Flash G

...oh and to follow up to the original question of this thread - Is Hillary finished?...

Yup. It's officially over for her:

Florida, Michigan get all delegates but each gets half vote - CNN.com



.

Watching a bit of the 'deliberation' today highlighted what a joke the Democratic party has become.

Talk about a party built on divisiveness, racism, sexism, exclusion, dirty tactics (oh, that's right, Obama is a product of Chicago politics and Clinton is, well, a Clinton afterall)...

The BIG joke is all the whining about hanging chads in Florida in 2000, and unfound claims of voter tampering in Ohio in 2004...yet they've given a text book example of exactly what democracy is NOT, and what voters' rights are not. The whole process has been about disenfranchisement.

For chrissake, an Obama supporter testified that the he should get half the Michigan delegates based on the 'science' of exit polling!!!!

There's a good idea, let's start electing Presidents based on exit polls.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by Rob T

How much time do you have Flash?

Try watching this video, and tell me if he says anything here that would be of "concern"?

Plenty to be concerned about.

'I will cut spending.' Can you name the last Presidential candidate that didn't say that?

'I will end the war.' How? Just pull out? Really? That simple.

'I will cut defense spending.' Ok, that feels good. Ask the troops in Iraq now if they think we're spending enough on defense as they await better body armour and armoured Humvees, and as we need to replace an antiquated air force.

'I will eliminate all nuclear weapons in the world.' That quite simply, is not possible. The fact that he is putting that forth as part of his platform is of concern to me, because people may vote for him on that basis, and it is a pipedream. Either he believes that, so his inexperience and lack of pragmatism is showing, or he's telling people what they want to hear whether it's true or not. Wonder which it is?

That's all of it I could sit through. I felt like I was watching a used car salesman.