Is Hilary finished?

[apk919]

Originally Posted by glb

Um....I don't think you like Barry too much. Just a hunch.

When did you begin to read his mind? Has he sent you a memo about his motives?

About the same time you began to read the mind of McCain. Hello Pot? This is Kettle...

Originally Posted by glb

You see no possibility that things in the church did change? That the extra attention often makes people of all colors, beliefs act abnormally? Even, maybe especially, preachers?

The evidence is on video and on the church's web site... "black separationist theology"... what don't you understand about it?

Originally Posted by glb

Is it possible that you have an irrational fear and corresponding hatred of some people that color your vision and turn off your logic and understanding circuits?

Now you're reading my mind? What you're insinuating is extremely insulting, and if I saw you in person, I'd be sure to straighten you out on this topic.

Originally Posted by glb

What does anyone care about this lame topic? You've seen the same skeletons (actually worse in terms of his reaction) in McCain's closet.

BS. Just BS. Show me videos or the website of the church where he's attended for the last 20 years or just shut up about it.

Originally Posted by glb

Most disappointing to me was his repudiation of what he said about Falwell and the other ahole. I was happy to hear a republican actually stand up to these horrible people.....then Mc Cain folded, to get elected.

All politicians talk to "aholes" now and then... not all of them write books inspired by racist lunatics.

Originally Posted by glb

Lightweight, indeed. Your response is a bit laughable, and uncalled for.

I stand by it. Your response is a personal attack on me. Consider yourself warned that my next response will not be so gentle.

Originally Posted by glb

BTW, if I were a black preacher, I might be much angier and outspoken than these guys.

Who's been more successful? Louis Farrakhan or Bill Cosby? Al Sharpton or Tiger Woods? Which of these people actually perpetuates their own underclass and which tries to transcend it?

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by glb

Many people in Iraq hate us being there, fight against us try to kill us. That group wouild characterize themselves as "freedom fighters" and it would be hard to argue against that point of view.

Foreign fighters there... from: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestininan Terr, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Yemen... make up only a small percentage of the people trying to kill us... We are talking 4 to 10%.

It's just PR and BS. About 50 or fewer foreign fighters come into Iraq each month. The entire group makes up <800 fighters in our best estimates.

Exactly - thank you for providing the details I didn't have.

Besides that, though, the whole "Islam is evil" attitude is kind of backwards for me to swallow. How can we propose to end a war using the same ignorant attitude towards our "enemies" that they have shown us?

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by ivan1

congrats to Hillary for her 2:1 victory over Obama in PR

and to Larry for once again swearing off personal attacks

Is this personal attack?

"fishguy

'feed a man a fish, you feed him for the day; teach a man to fish, you feed him for life'

Why not teach us on LotusTalk how you feel like in this last thread, intellectually and succinctly?

fishguy, you have some great thoughts.

Leave out the personal attacks and they are great to read.

Everyone gets it: you don't like glb or me.

You don't have to repeat it in every thread."

ivan1 you're just being mean. I thought you had some class.

[fishguy]

[quote=LARRY;1019717
"fishguy

'feed a man a fish, you feed him for the day; teach a man to fish, you feed him for life'

Why not teach us on LotusTalk how you feel like in this last thread, intellectually and succinctly?

fishguy, you have some great thoughts.

Leave out the personal attacks and they are great to read.

Everyone gets it: you don't like glb or me.

You don't have to repeat it in every thread."

[/QUOTE]
repost
Is Hilary finished?
I wont repost my answer

FYI, I am not here to "teach" anyone anything about politics, thats not what a discussion in politics is about. i am not trying to change others views. maybe thats where we differ.

none of us have any experience on politics(unless we have been in office), just our own individual views, which are not going to be changed by discussion on this board. i think the opposite, they only get stronger.

I will try to teach people things i have learned on the track, but only things that i have experience with.

[LARRY]

Ok! Thanks!

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by smoseley

Besides that, though, the whole "Islam is evil" attitude is kind of backwards for me to swallow. How can we propose to end a war using the same ignorant attitude towards our "enemies" that they have shown us?

+1

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by glb

Many people in Iraq hate us being there, fight against Foreign fighters there: The majority (41%) are from, you guessed it, Saudi Arabia. You might remember them from 9/11.

Alphabetically, the rest are from: Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestininan Terr, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Yemen.

HOWEVER: These people make up only a small percentage of the people trying to kill us.

We are talking 4 to 10%. It's just PR and BS. PLEASE let's not just repeat what we've been told. It is damaging to our country's future...not to mention this thread............

About 50 or fewer foreign fighters come into Iraq each month.

The entire group makes up <800 fighters in our best estimates.

I seem to recall that it took 10 terrorists to take down the WTC and 5 to damage the Pentagon. Eight hundred not engaged in Iraq could do alot of damage here at home.

[LARRY]

How will the 800 terrorists get here? Why haven't they come yet?

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by LARRY

How will the 800 terrorists get here? Why haven't they come yet?

They'll come across the border from Mexico. They haven't come here yet because they know that they have to beat us in Iraq. They figure they can wait us out and take their chances on the political change in November. If they came here before that and pulled off another 9/11 style attack with GWB in office there would be hell to pay. They couldn't count on the politicians wanting to get out of Iraq. They need the revenue from Iraq's oil and new training camps.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by smoseley

Besides that, though, the whole "Islam is evil" attitude is kind of backwards for me to swallow. How can we propose to end a war using the same ignorant attitude towards our "enemies" that they have shown us?

Who is saying "Islam is evil"? I've heard a lot of people saying that radical Islamists are the problem not every Muslim.

The way that wars end (I'm not talking about endless truce or cease fire agreements) is with one side achieving victory over the other side. The only attitude that counts is when the enemy can no longer continue to wage war.

[glb]

Originally Posted by apk919

About the same time you began to read the mind of McCain. Hello Pot? This is Kettle...

The evidence is on video and on the church's web site... "black separationist theology"... what don't you understand about it?

Now you're reading my mind? What you're insinuating is extremely insulting, and if I saw you in person, I'd be sure to straighten you out on this topic.

BS. Just BS. Show me videos or the website of the church where he's attended for the last 20 years or just shut up about it.

All politicians talk to "aholes" now and then... not all of them write books inspired by racist lunatics.

I stand by it. Your response is a personal attack on me. Consider yourself warned that my next response will not be so gentle.

Who's been more successful? Louis Farrakhan or Bill Cosby? Al Sharpton or Tiger Woods? Which of these people actually perpetuates their own underclass and which tries to transcend it?

My friend,

1. Please point out where I claim to know what’s in McCain’s mind. What I’ve written about him comes from his public statements and actions.

2. You are still hung up on this topic, while denying how long it took McCain to disavow his clearly wacko religious connections. Moreover, you seem to maintain that every sermon for 20 yrs was the same, which is clearly not the case.

Your point here pales in comparison to McCain’s reaction to Falwell et al. Plus, I would assume you’ve seen the video of McCain’s religious endorsers. I can’t remember if you commented on these. But, hanging your hat on Obama’s church gets you nowhere if you wish to support McCain.

As someone who detests organized religion, these are close to non-issues for me. May I suggest we move on?

3. This would depend on how you take what I said, no?

You may have notice a little “TIAPT” at the bottom of my post. “This is a projective test.”

If you took my statement as an accusation of, say, racism, you are wrong. I don’t know you and would never make that accusation w/o proof. What I maintain is that you have blatant hostility when it comes to Obama (and Democrats in general). You, to me, seem blinded by ideology, even tho the party you back has been terrible for our country in every way imaginable…and some that weren’t.

I would also suggest that hints of personal threats have no place here.

4. You are confusing a 180 degree turn with a nuanced change. Note that only Republicans back these agents of division and hate. The rest of us either laugh at them or sadly shake our heads.

5. Feel free to stand by your “lightweight” remark, even tho it more aptly describes your candidate in this narrow discussion.

Compare, please, Obama’s thoughtful response to his preacher problems to McCain’s remarks about his religious wackos in the weeks before public opinion forced him to recant.

6. “Not so gentle”? GMAB, please. What you see as a personal attack is, in fact, me refuting what you said, turning what you said back toward your candidate. I still have the opinion that your statement was laughable, given the facts surrounding both candidates.

7. Is there not room for both types? While I’m aware that Republicans practice exclusion, isn’t this taking it a bit far? Do you contend that because Cosby exists there is no room for Sharpton?

Al says plenty of stuff that makes me cringe, but he also fulfills a role that is necessary.

Moreover, success may not be the proper benchmark here. It is but one little measurement.


Last, in a typical Republican tactic, you leave the world of facts and data to venture into personal attacks, threats, nitpicking, narrowing the argument to a nonsensical degree, etc.

You seem to be a smart fellow, so I’d expected better. Admittedly, I don’t know what I’d do if the facts weren’t on my side, and luckily don’t have to.


I keep posting facts & data and what I get in return is negative emotion, not the reasonable discussion for which I’d hoped. This keeps happening, is disappointing.

[glb]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

I seem to recall that it took 10 terrorists to take down the WTC and 5 to damage the Pentagon. Eight hundred not engaged in Iraq could do alot of damage here at home.

You know, when I mentioned movies on topic, I forgot "Charlie Wilson's War".

It's quite good. CW armed the Taliban and others to resist Russia's invasion of Aghanistan.

In one scene, he show videotape of a cheap land-air missle launcher bringing down a multi-billion dollar Russian jet.

The reverse, it seems, has happened to us. And, just maybe, arming the Taliban wasn't our best long-term move.

Anyway, to your point: There are roughly 30,000 people shooting at us in Iraq. MY point was that the foreign element is less than 3% of that.

Yet, McCain and our govt keep blowing this way out of proportion. Simply to bet us to buy into their dumb war.

You are assuming these 800 would be attacking us if we weren't in Iraq, an assumption that is quite hard to sell.

There is no proof of what you contend, is there?

If you are moving towards "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here", please be aware that no one buys this discredited theory.

According to the NIE, we created more terrorists with our foolhardy invasion.

BTW, I really can't remember, but was it either you or APK that in another thread tried to discount what Clarke wrote in his book? Pls advise.




Hey....don't you owe me a beer?

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

They'll come across the border from Mexico. They haven't come here yet because they know that they have to beat us in Iraq. They figure they can wait us out and take their chances on the political change in November. If they came here before that and pulled off another 9/11 style attack with GWB in office there would be hell to pay. They couldn't count on the politicians wanting to get out of Iraq. They need the revenue from Iraq's oil and new training camps.

Where did you learn about this?

Who will fund them?

How will they leave Iraq and get to Mexico?

How will they get all of their bombs and weapons into Mexico?

How will they get all of their bombs and weapons into this country?

Won't somebody notice 800 Iraqi guys moving through Mexico?

Or is this just a guess?

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Where did you learn about this?

Who will fund them?

How will they leave Iraq and get to Mexico?

How will they get all of their bombs and weapons into Mexico?

How will they get all of their bombs and weapons into this country?

Won't somebody notice 800 Iraqi guys moving through Mexico?

Or is this just a guess?

US Border agents have been catching people from middle Eastern nations illegally attempting to cross into the USA. They can't say how many get across, but some do.

It's just a educated guess. They will get their money from the usual sponsors of terror, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria . . . the same people giving them the money to fight in Iraq. They can leave from any of the above counties and fly to Mexico. Incase you didn't know it law enforcement in Mexico is an entrepreneurial enterprise. They can buy munitions the same places that the Mexican drug cartels do. They can get their munitions into our country the same way that drugs are smuggled in. They won't be traveling as a group of 800 individuals. There are already people crossing into the USA from Mexico that are not Mexican nationals

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by apk919

Now you're reading my mind? What you're insinuating is extremely insulting, and if I saw you in person, I'd be sure to straighten you out on this topic.


BS. Just BS. Show me videos or the website of the church where he's attended for the last 20 years or just shut up about it.


I stand by it. Your response is a personal attack on me. Consider yourself warned that my next response will not be so gentle.

It seems like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed, early this morning.


Not Good to start the day in a bad temper, fellow.

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

US Border agents have been catching people from middle Eastern nations illegally attempting to cross into the USA. They can't say how many get across, but some do.

It's just a educated guess. They will get their money from the usual sponsors of terror, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria . . . the same people giving them the money to fight in Iraq. They can leave from any of the above counties and fly to Mexico. Incase you didn't know it law enforcement in Mexico is an entrepreneurial enterprise. They can buy munitions the same places that the Mexican drug cartels do. They can get their munitions into our country the same way that drugs are smuggled in. They won't be traveling as a group of 800 individuals. There are already people crossing into the USA from Mexico that are not Mexican nationals

Oh. Ok...

[Surferjer]

I read the thread title, and wanted to respond. Yes.

[LARRY]

Can we close this thread now?

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Oh. Ok...

Let me add this to my last post:
Consider the following 5 statements by Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson given at a Senate Floor Speech 16 March 2005
to President George.W. Bush (page S 2828).


"In Detroit, Mahmoud Youssef Kourani was indicted in the Eastern District of Michigan on one count of conspiracy
to provide material support to Hezbollah. Kourani was already in custody for entering the country illegally
through Mexico and was involved in fund raising activities on behalf of Hezbollah."

"...the capture of terrorist suspect Jose Padilla. The Justice Department says Padilla and an accomplice planned
to enter the United States through Mexico to blow up apartment buildings in major cities such as New York."

"Or the case of suspected al-Qaida sleeper agent Mohammed Junaid Babar, who told investigators of a scheme
to smuggle terrorists across the Mexican border. He is tied to a terror plot to carry out bombings and
assassinations in London."

"Intelligence reports suggesting that 25 Chechen terrorism suspects have illegally entered the United States from
Mexico have refocused attention on a porous border from which many believe the next major attack on
Americans could come."

"Also last July, an Egyptian man United States authorities described as one of their most wanted smugglers of
humans was arrested on charges of operating a ring that illegally brought people from Egypt and other Middle
Eastern countries to the United States. The indictment says Abdallah and his associates would direct people
seeking to reach the United States to travel to one of several Latin American countries, and from there to
Guatemala. They would then be transported to America through Mexico in return for payments of thousands of
dollars in smuggling fees."



It is blatantly obvious even to the most casual reader that Islamic terrorists have been, and continue to, cross the
U.S./Mexico border into America.

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by Surferjer

I read the thread title, and wanted to respond. Yes.

First, let me applaud you for trying to bring this back to topic.

Unfortunately, according to Clinton, she's not finished.