Maybe Someone Here Can Help - LotusTalk

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 02:03 PM

For an engineering class, I need to physically model what went wrong at Chernobyl. So far, I have split it up into three main parts.

1) The reduction of power caused a decrease in cooling. Temperatures rose.

2) An employee saw these increased temperatures and tried to shut down the reactor by inserting control rods, causing an energy spike. The control rods broke and were unable to be completely inserted. This increased the temps further as well as increasing the pressure.

3) Explosion. Graphite ignited. Spread of radioactive material.

The way I see it, a physical model can be done by having some reaction going on in a container. Obviously safety is going to be a concern, so I'm trying to figure out what reaction I could use.

The reaction (ideally) would have to be able to be controlled by some sort of cooling system in order to show how stage 1 occurred.

Stage 2 would be relatively simple, since it would just be adding a substance to speed up the reaction.

I'd like to avoid an actual explosion for stage 3, so I'm stuck at the moment since I don't know what reaction would be suitable in the first place.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
~Jeremy K.

kestrel74 · 10-11-2009, 02:09 PM

magnesium.

Lotus Fury · 10-11-2009, 03:18 PM

Dragon · 10-11-2009, 04:08 PM

Thermite would simulate the core burning down threw the layers of the building and in to the ground quite well...

JnC · 10-11-2009, 04:28 PM

"Explosion" idea: Diet soda and menthos. Fill you your "cooling rods" with menthos. Then crack them.

RENDERMAN · 10-11-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk13

For an engineering class, I need to physically model what went wrong at Chernobyl. So far, I have split it up into three main parts.

1) The reduction of power caused a decrease in cooling. Temperatures rose.

2) An employee saw these increased temperatures and tried to shut down the reactor by inserting control rods, causing an energy spike. The control rods broke and were unable to be completely inserted. This increased the temps further as well as increasing the pressure.

3) Explosion. Graphite ignited. Spread of radioactive material.

The way I see it, a physical model can be done by having some reaction going on in a container. Obviously safety is going to be a concern, so I'm trying to figure out what reaction I could use.

The reaction (ideally) would have to be able to be controlled by some sort of cooling system in order to show how stage 1 occurred.

Stage 2 would be relatively simple, since it would just be adding a substance to speed up the reaction.

I'd like to avoid an actual explosion for stage 3, so I'm stuck at the moment since I don't know what reaction would be suitable in the first place.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
~Jeremy K.

Jerm, you could be making mad money in Iran at the moment, they are looking for a few good men...... I have no clue what you're saying

Thomasio · 10-11-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus Fury

Don't waste Russian Standard... that's good stuff. (At least it was in Mockba!)

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 07:29 PM

Well I ended up deciding to do the following:

Water being heated on a stove while adding cold water from time to time will simulate the reactor as it should be. When the amount of cold water is reduced, as the heat continues to be added, temperature will go up. This is stage 1. Stage 2 and 3 will be covered at the same time by adding dry ice or magnesium "control rods".

EDIT: And would anyone like to explain why the vodka was posted?

Amarao · 10-11-2009, 08:14 PM

How will adding magnesium control rods to boiling water do anything? I thought the ignition point was a lot higher?

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 08:19 PM

Not boiling. Besides, I'm probably going to have to go with dry ice. Not sure how to get my hands on magnesium

EDIT: I may be an idiot about the magnesium + water reaction lol. If it's the same thing that I think it is, then simply adding magnesium to water causes it to ignite.

Amarao · 10-11-2009, 08:36 PM

I believe you're thinking of sodium...

I suppose if you want an explosion you could set it up where you have a pump keeping water away from a piece of sodium . Cut power to the pump and the water rises and there is your big boom.

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 08:43 PM

A quick go at youtube would seem to suggest you're correct.

DWebb · 10-11-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon

Thermite would simulate the core burning down threw the layers of the building and in to the ground quite well...

Howdy,

Magnesium can be purchased in strips at some hardware stores, also a quick go at google might help.

Thermite really would be spectacular, that's exactly what I was thinking.

You could have various layers of materials for the thermite to burn through.

Magnesium strip could be your heat source and a copper tubing between them would be your cooling system.
By circulating water through the copper tubing you would be removing the heat preventing the ignition of the thermite.

Once the flow of water stops, the magnesium burns through the copper and ignites the thermite.

The thermite then burns out of control.

Burns a hole in your layers of BS then through the bottom of you project board, then the table, then through the floor tile, Then begins to penetrate the floors foundation.

JUST FREAKING LIKE CHERNOByL!
Man I wish I could be there.

Gig 'em

Darrell Webb

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 10:39 PM

Question. How available is thermite?

Amarao · 10-11-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk13

Question. How available is thermite?

I'm curious, what is this presentation for? I mean are you really going to set fire or blow something up for an engineering class?

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 10:47 PM

The presentation is actually a podcast. We're not going to be presenting in class.

And honestly, that just plain sounded too interesting to pass up.

So...yes?

Amarao · 10-11-2009, 11:06 PM

Well I'm pretty sure thermite will have to be homemade.

jk13 · 10-11-2009, 11:11 PM

Yeah. My roommate confirmed that one lol

dasmoofler · 10-12-2009, 03:28 AM

mmmmmmm......thermite....now where is that?

Dragon · 10-12-2009, 03:55 AM

How to make Thermite...

How to Make Thermite - wikiHow

10-11-2009, 02:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	Maybe Someone Here Can Help For an engineering class, I need to physically model what went wrong at Chernobyl. So far, I have split it up into three main parts. 1) The reduction of power caused a decrease in cooling. Temperatures rose. 2) An employee saw these increased temperatures and tried to shut down the reactor by inserting control rods, causing an energy spike. The control rods broke and were unable to be completely inserted. This increased the temps further as well as increasing the pressure. 3) Explosion. Graphite ignited. Spread of radioactive material. The way I see it, a physical model can be done by having some reaction going on in a container. Obviously safety is going to be a concern, so I'm trying to figure out what reaction I could use. The reaction (ideally) would have to be able to be controlled by some sort of cooling system in order to show how stage 1 occurred. Stage 2 would be relatively simple, since it would just be adding a substance to speed up the reaction. I'd like to avoid an actual explosion for stage 3, so I'm stuck at the moment since I don't know what reaction would be suitable in the first place. Any suggestions? Thanks, ~Jeremy K.

10-11-2009, 02:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
kestrel74 G-200 Driver Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North of Detroit; Watkins Glen, NY Posts: 9,312	magnesium. __________________ 74 Europa Zetec TC Special 3614R Elise #2292 / Chrome Orange !! / Starshield / Nitron Sport SA / RTDbrace / Uprights machined / Down Low rails / ChaseCam / V1 / SS lines w/ R4-S "My daily driver does .85 Mach" " I started flying when Sex was safe and Hang Gliding was dangerous " BUY My Europa ! http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...pa-sale-43829/

10-11-2009, 04:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dragon Hydrocarbons Rule Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Okinawa Japan Posts: 1,747 Images: 2	Thermite would simulate the core burning down threw the layers of the building and in to the ground quite well... __________________ 2006 Exige; BWR Supercharger, Adj Sway Bar, Ohlins Suspension, BSK Oil Catch Can, Moroso Oil Pan, ORC Clutch, Custom Exhaust, Black Volk Racing CE28N's w/ Toyo R1R's, 2 piece rotors, Pagid Blue Pads, BSK Wet Carbon (Side Skirts, Front Lip Spoiler, Gas Cap Cover, Center Console, Door Panels), Dry Carbon rear Diffuser, Harness Bar, BWR Gauge Mount, OMP Superquadro steering wheel, LETSLA Short Shifter, V2arms, Rear Tow Link Brace, RLS Battery Bracket, BOE Tow Bar, Stickers.

10-11-2009, 04:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
JnC Thread unraveler Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 2,887	"Explosion" idea: Diet soda and menthos. Fill you your "cooling rods" with menthos. Then crack them. __________________ 2007 Cross Country Travelblog 06 Lotus Elise :: Chrome Orange :: Base :: Black Pack :: TC :: SS 00 VW Golf GLS TDI

10-11-2009, 08:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	Not boiling. Besides, I'm probably going to have to go with dry ice. Not sure how to get my hands on magnesium EDIT: I may be an idiot about the magnesium + water reaction lol. If it's the same thing that I think it is, then simply adding magnesium to water causes it to ignite. Last edited by jk13 : 10-11-2009 at 08:28 PM.

10-11-2009, 03:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lotus Fury Blame Canada, eh? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pgh, Pa Posts: 2,261

10-11-2009, 07:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	Well I ended up deciding to do the following: Water being heated on a stove while adding cold water from time to time will simulate the reactor as it should be. When the amount of cold water is reduced, as the heat continues to be added, temperature will go up. This is stage 1. Stage 2 and 3 will be covered at the same time by adding dry ice or magnesium "control rods". EDIT: And would anyone like to explain why the vodka was posted?

10-11-2009, 08:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
Amarao Hoon Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,415	How will adding magnesium control rods to boiling water do anything? I thought the ignition point was a lot higher?

10-11-2009, 08:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Amarao Hoon Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,415	I believe you're thinking of sodium... I suppose if you want an explosion you could set it up where you have a pump keeping water away from a piece of sodium . Cut power to the pump and the water rises and there is your big boom. Last edited by Amarao : 10-11-2009 at 08:44 PM.

10-11-2009, 08:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	A quick go at youtube would seem to suggest you're correct.

10-11-2009, 10:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	Question. How available is thermite?

10-11-2009, 10:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	The presentation is actually a podcast. We're not going to be presenting in class. And honestly, that just plain sounded too interesting to pass up. So...yes?

10-11-2009, 11:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Amarao Hoon Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,415	Well I'm pretty sure thermite will have to be homemade.

10-11-2009, 11:11 PM	#18 (permalink)
jk13 Former Lotus, current Z06 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: College Station, TX Posts: 132	Yeah. My roommate confirmed that one lol

10-12-2009, 03:28 AM	#19 (permalink)
dasmoofler Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: SE WI Posts: 3,088	mmmmmmm......thermite....now where is that?

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10-12-2009, 03:55 AM	#20 (permalink)
Dragon Hydrocarbons Rule Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Okinawa Japan Posts: 1,747 Images: 2	How to make Thermite... How to Make Thermite - wikiHow __________________ 2006 Exige; BWR Supercharger, Adj Sway Bar, Ohlins Suspension, BSK Oil Catch Can, Moroso Oil Pan, ORC Clutch, Custom Exhaust, Black Volk Racing CE28N's w/ Toyo R1R's, 2 piece rotors, Pagid Blue Pads, BSK Wet Carbon (Side Skirts, Front Lip Spoiler, Gas Cap Cover, Center Console, Door Panels), Dry Carbon rear Diffuser, Harness Bar, BWR Gauge Mount, OMP Superquadro steering wheel, LETSLA Short Shifter, V2arms, Rear Tow Link Brace, RLS Battery Bracket, BOE Tow Bar, Stickers.