My Political Discussion Experiment

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by Moto44

That's easy. Her.

Sky Slopers.

[tabajay]

Originally Posted by Moto44

Tabajay,

So where do you think we stand balancing a marketing economy with social programs?

What I believe doesn't matter; you'll find one of the two positions resonates with you.

Pinker shows ideology is ~50% hardwired. And of the ~50% nuture, a majority fraction will be determined by your parents who will presumably only reinforce your natural inclination (it being theirs). The minority fraction left to your individual reason will be tainted by confirmation bias.

Few things are less productive than arguing politics.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by tabajay

What I believe doesn't matter; you'll find one of the two positions resonates with you.

Pinker shows ideology is ~50% hardwired. And of the ~50% nuture, a majority fraction will be determined by your parents who will presumably only reinforce your natural inclination (it being theirs). The minority fraction left to your individual reason will be tainted by confirmation bias.

Few things are less productive than arguing politics.

You're correct about the 50% hardwired (inherited), but Pinker says that parental influence is an additional 10%, and peer groups 40%...

[local600]

John McCain on Iraq - “I don’t think Americans are concerned if we’re there (Iraq) for 100 years, or a 1,000 years, or 10,000 years”



Sarah Palin on running mate rumors: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?

[NMRJock]

This is your past three posts on this forum. How about actually discussing the clips?

McCain is saying that people wouldn't mind a presence if there weren't casualties. We've been in Korea for a very long time and nobody seems to be complaining.

And Palin was just making the point that she didn't want to take the job if she was just going to be window dressing. I hardly see that clip as a strike against her.

[tabajay]

Originally Posted by apk919

You're correct about the 50% hardwired (inherited), but Pinker says that parental influence is an additional 10%, and peer groups 40%...

Thanks.

Maybe I'm confusing with another who carves out a fraction for reason, and maybe formal education as well? (Pinker conflates the two with peer groups, yes?)

[Taxcheat]

If you watch this video, Obama's greatness is clear:

YouTube - Obama Speech - Teleprompter Goes Out

As for Palin and the VP, NMRJock is right. There are no real constitutional duties for the VP (ties aren't that common and won't be when the Dems pick up 2+ more Senate seats in November). Traditionally, the VP goes to funerals.

It's up to the president to delegate more responsibility.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by Taxcheat

If you watch this video, Obama's greatness is clear:

As for Palin and the VP, NMRJock is right. There are no real constitutional duties for the VP (ties aren't that common and won't be when the Dems pick up 2+ more Senate seats in November). Traditionally, the VP goes to funerals.

It's up to the president to delegate more responsibility.

That is hilarious.....wonder when we will see that one on Jon Stewart........not.......

[apk919]

Originally Posted by ivan1

That is hilarious.....wonder when we will see that one on Jon Stewart........not.......

+1,000

That's exactly my point from the "Jon Stewart" thread. Stewart will not show something that's highly unfavorable to Obama, because he clearly wants Obama to win the election. If Nancy Pelosi was in a highly contested election, I don't think he'd show unflattering clips of her either (but I'm pretty sure he'd come up with something detrimental to her Republican opponent under those circumstances).

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by Taxcheat

If you watch this video, Obama's greatness is clear:

shows what i have been saying al along.
he is an empty suit who is a front man for others.
he doesnt even know what he thinks...............
if i am making a speech, and am passionate about something, I can talk about it even if my teleprompter goes out, thats because the thoughts are mine, its from my heart.

he is a front man for the powers in the democratic party..........empty suit.

you really want this guy negotiating with Iran w/o pre-existing conditions.
mahmud(sp) will make have a field day with this guy (Obama).

[Moto44]

“In politics, absurdity is not a handicap.”
—Napoleon Bonaparte

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by fishguy

shows what i have been saying al along.
he is an empty suit who is a front man for others.
he doesnt even know what he thinks...............
if i am making a speech, and am passionate about something, I can talk about it even if my teleprompter goes out, thats because the thoughts are mine, its from my heart.

he is a front man for the powers in the democratic party..........empty suit.

you really want this guy negotiating with Iran w/o pre-existing conditions.
mahmud(sp) will make have a field day with this guy (Obama).

No teleprompter went out. He wasn't using a teleprompter. You can't use a teleprompter when you're walking around. He obviously lost his train of thought.

But my God... If I posted all of the GWB gaffes over the last few years, we'd be here all day watching YouTube videos.

Politicians are human. They make hundreds of speeches. They get tired. They lose their train of thought. To post ONE video on here of Obama stumbling, and call him an empty suit is ridiculous. I could post videos of John McCain not knowing what city he's in or losing his train of thought, but what does that accomplish?

There are hundreds of videos where Obama is speaking off the cuff and making an eloquent point about why we need him as President. To be balanced, why not post those?

If your only argument against Obama is that he stumbled at one out of a hundred speeches, you need a better argument against him.


.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by fishguy

s
if i am making a speech, and am passionate about something, I can talk about it even if my teleprompter goes out, thats because the thoughts are mine, its from my heart.

I am sure all your fish really appreciate that

[Taxcheat]

Obama's basing his candidacy almost entirely on his rhetorical skill -- GWB did not. The problem is Obama is mediocre without a prepared text (usually lifted from the Governor of Massachusetts). Most pro-level national politicians can "wing it" on any topic because they know the issue and they know what to say. Most know what to do if their print copy of a speech suddenly has page 12 missing. So the whole point is: this guy's main qualification for the presidency is not innate eloquence, it's the ability to read a teleprompter.

In the video above where Obama goes from eloquent to "the patient has a Breathalyzer" it's obvious there's a teleprompter. He's speaking on a platform with a podium. There's the "look left, look right" tell-tale of a teleprompter when he's speaking. Also, when Obama made his self-worshiping Denver speech, he used the world's biggest teleprompter, one of the stadium's big screens at the back of the venue -- it appeared in a few shots. Here's another example where Obama is very obviously reading the teleprompter. You need to wait till he gets through the introductions (0:40). Then it's robotic. Read left, wait 3-4 seconds. Read right, wait 3-4 seconds. Repeat.

YouTube - Obama Teleprompter

What happens when Obama gives a prepared speech without a teleprompter?
"As he strode to the podium, Obama clutched in his hands a pile of 3 by 5 index cards. The index cards meant only one thing--no Teleprompter. Shorn of his Teleprompter, we saw a different Obama. His delivery was halting and unsure. He looked down at his obviously copious notes every few seconds throughout the speech. Unlike the typical Obama oration where the words flow with unparalleled fluidity, he stumbled over his phrasing repeatedly."
Obama Unplugged

See for yourself. This is the full, 30 minute video of Obama with 3x5 cards.

YouTube - Virginia Jefferson-Jackson Dinner - Barack Obama Speaks

Whether you agree or disagree me my assessment, this is something that should be discussed, but isn't. Why not?

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by Taxcheat

Whether you agree or disagree me my assessment, this is something that should be discussed, but isn't. Why not?

If it hasnt made it to Jon Stewart it doesnt matter

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Taxcheat

Obama's basing his candidacy almost entirely on his rhetorical skill -- GWB did not. So the whole point is: this guy's main qualification for the presidency is not innate eloquence, it's the ability to read a teleprompter.

You must be kidding if you think his only qualification to be President is his ability to speak. He happens to be a great orator, but that's not what he bases his candidacy on. And to say his speaking ability is his only qualification is insulting. He's as qualified to lead as Lincoln was. (Two term Illinois state Senator and one term Congressman.)

Again, it's a pretty weak argument to suggest that if someone stumbles while stumping for 16 hours a day, they're somehow not ready to be President.


,

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by Taxcheat

Obama's basing his candidacy almost entirely on his rhetorical skill -- GWB did not. The problem is Obama is mediocre without a prepared text (usually lifted from the Governor of Massachusetts). Most pro-level national politicians can "wing it" on any topic because they know the issue and they know what to say. Most know what to do if their print copy of a speech suddenly has page 12 missing. So the whole point is: this guy's main qualification for the presidency is not innate eloquence, it's the ability to read a teleprompter.

In the video above where Obama goes from eloquent to "the patient has a Breathalyzer" it's obvious there's a teleprompter. He's speaking on a platform with a podium. There's the "look left, look right" tell-tale of a teleprompter when he's speaking. Also, when Obama made his self-worshiping Denver speech, he used the world's biggest teleprompter, one of the stadium's big screens at the back of the venue -- it appeared in a few shots. Here's another example where Obama is very obviously reading the teleprompter. You need to wait till he gets through the introductions (0:40). Then it's robotic. Read left, wait 3-4 seconds. Read right, wait 3-4 seconds. Repeat.

What happens when Obama gives a prepared speech without a teleprompter?
"As he strode to the podium, Obama clutched in his hands a pile of 3 by 5 index cards. The index cards meant only one thing--no Teleprompter. Shorn of his Teleprompter, we saw a different Obama. His delivery was halting and unsure. He looked down at his obviously copious notes every few seconds throughout the speech. Unlike the typical Obama oration where the words flow with unparalleled fluidity, he stumbled over his phrasing repeatedly."
Obama Unplugged

See for yourself. This is the full, 30 minute video of Obama with 3x5 cards.

Whether you agree or disagree me my assessment, this is something that should be discussed, but isn't. Why not?

flash G
this guy put in writing exactly what my earlier point was.

written communication may not be my strong point, but being very observant(with an open mind) is.

[SweetDaddyD]

Every 4 years it pretty much boils down to the same thing, and South Park said it best.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by Flash G

You must be kidding if you think his only qualification to be President is his ability to speak. He happens to be a great orator, but that's not what he bases his candidacy on. And to say his speaking ability is his only qualification is insulting. He's as qualified to lead as Lincoln was. (Two term Illinois state Senator and one term Congressman.)

Again, it's a pretty weak argument to suggest that if someone stumbles while stumping for 16 hours a day, they're somehow not ready to be President.


,

Lincoln wrote his own speeches and there were no teleprompters. To equate Obama with Lincoln is what is insulting. Lincoln was also a great war time commander in chief. Obama didn't even understand that the surge (formerly known as reinforcements in other conflicts) would work and was necessary to achieve victory. Obama would have folded like a cheap camera if his army was taking the number of casualties that Lincoln's army had suffered. The population of the United States in 1860 (US census of 1860) was 27,489,561 north and south combined. It is estimated that the total number of casualties (north and south) was between 618,000 and 700,000 or about 2.3% of the total population (equate that to todays population of 330mil and you have 7,590,000 casualties). In the battle of Gettysburg alone there were 51,112 casualties, 23,049 for the north and 28,063 for the south. Lincoln wasn't a community activist, he was a great statesman.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by local600

John McCain on Iraq - “I don’t think Americans are concerned if we’re there (Iraq) for 100 years, or a 1,000 years, or 10,000 years”

Cute, but dishonest video. I am hoping one of these days the folks that love McCain's "100 years" quote will eventually tack on THE REST OF THE STATEMENT, which is "as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed." He is speaking of a military presence Korea-style. He makes that point clear as day.

This is the type of dishonest, skewed reporting that can make political arguments look silly at times. Dropping the second-half of the statement because it doesn't make the desired point is a common tactic on both sides.