Is Obama finished?

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

Just to bring you up to date, Obama has since recanted his statements about not being in the church to hear some of the referenced Rev. W rhetoric first hand, and in fact in his big speech last week admitted that indeed he had been.

The fact that first he said he never heard it, then came back and said well, yes I have heard it while sitting in the pew, IS the deal breaker for me as far as I'm concerned.

That's just not true. What he said was that he's been in the pews when his pastor said things that he didn't agree with and things that made him cringe, but he also said he never heard the anti-American or racist rantings from his preacher while he was in the pews - and that if he WAS, he would have expressed his outrage directly to his preacher. (Read his speech.)

I think the reason he joined the church was that he was a young black politician in Chicago who was trying to get elected and probably figured that it was a good move to join one of the most prominent black churches in the city. Not because he's some sort of closet racist.


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[milehitom]

Originally Posted by Flash G

That's just not true. What he said was that he's been in the pews when his pastor said things that he didn't agree with and things that made him cringe, but he also said he never heard the anti-American or racist rantings from his preacher while he was in the pews - and that if he WAS, he would have expressed his outrage directly to his preacher. (Read his speech.)

I think the reason he joined the church was that he was a young black politician in Chicago who was trying to get elected and probably figured that it was a good move to join one of the most prominent black churches in the city. Not because he's some sort of closet racist.


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In fact, it was conservative columnist William Kristol who was forced to "recant." In a recent column, he stated as fact that Obama had been in attendance at the sermons in question, only to find out that his unimpeachable source was just an internet rumor mill and evidence presented to him after publication of his column (in the New York Times, no less) showed Obama on the road, not in Chicago. Oops! What's worse is his retraction didn't even appear in the paper (or any that I know of who carry his syndicated column), but on his blog...

Tom

[Eye Candy]

I fail to see how Jesus showing empathy toward a prostitute or tax collector is equal to a politician sitting in a pew for 20 years listening to and supporting a racist, even though Obama has made some think he can walk on water. What a lame analogy...

[ivan1]

IBTL

it is unfortunate, because most of us can discuss the issue without getting personal...( Yes I had one lapse myself, only after getting called a racist by Larry, taking the bait and calling him a name)...

There are several posters here that have opinions 180 degrees from my own - Moto44 and King of Jericho for example - yet no insults have been coming from them or directed to them....

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by ivan1

IBTL

it is unfortunate, because most of us can discuss the issue without getting personal...( Yes I had one lapse myself, only after getting called a racist by Larry, taking the bait and calling him a name)...

There are several posters here that have opinions 180 degrees from my own - Moto44 and King of Jericho for example - yet no insults have been coming from them or directed to them....

I agree completely. I too had to exit this formerly constructive and interesting conversation.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by evomind

larry, again...how can u support a candidate that supports racists??

Republicans did it in 2000.

http://archive.salon.com/politics200.../03/bob_jones/

And with Reagan years before.


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[Flash G]

Originally Posted by ivan1

IBTL

it is unfortunate, because most of us can discuss the issue without getting personal...( Yes I had one lapse myself, only after getting called a racist by Larry, taking the bait and calling him a name)...

There are several posters here that have opinions 180 degrees from my own - Moto44 and King of Jericho for example - yet no insults have been coming from them or directed to them....

I agree. Even though I may not agree with some of you guys politically, if you can eloquently state your case without having to use personal insults, it makes me have more respect for you - regardless of where you stand on the issues.


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[Rob T]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

What the hell does this have to do with his race? I don't think that Wright said anything outwardly racist and I doubt that his views have in any way influenced Obama. To think so would be naive. Look, I am in the middle and I also happen to be a younger white male, why has this not offended me?

Good question. Why doesn't it offend you?

Originally Posted by Ian

He believes that the white man created AIDS to kill African Americans. He is a dumba$$ and a racist. Anyone who would spend their valuable time listening to him spew his garbage has questionable decision making ability in my opinion.

Bullseye.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Terrific... the preacher is an a-hole nut case. What the hell does this have to do with Obama's ability to lead the country? Are you forgetting that he was the head of the Harvard Law Review and graduated at the top of his class and dedicated his life to helping the community? This is a good man. Sure, the preacher that he's been tied to is out of his mind but Obama simply is not. A man spent his whole life helping people and someone who he knows made kookie comments and that makes Obama a bad man? You're reaching...

This doesn't happen too often, but in this particular case, I think Hillary said it quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0kMiLfkNP0

[KingOfJericho]

I've already answered:

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I use this as an example. I go to concerts with great frequency. Many of them are hard rock/metal and the lyrics of those songs pale in comparison to the things that this priest spouted to his audience. I listen to this music in my car on the way to and from work, on the train, when I run... ALL THE TIME. I can tell you with great certainty that this music with lyrics that are far more controversial and disturbing to the public than the words of the minister. I ask you this... what the FUKC does it have to do with me performing my job as a financial strategist? Has it ever changed my mind or made me forget right from wrong? NO! Because I have a good head on my shoulders... just like Obama.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I've already answered:

Surely you are not equating listening to music with going to a church for 20 years with a pastor who makes the comments that he has made. Bad analogy.

When you listen to music, you don't necessarily listen to the words or their meaning. When you listen to a sermon, it is all about the words and their meaning.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Surely you are not equating listening to music with going to a church for 20 years with a pastor who makes the comments that he has made. Bad analogy.

When you listen to music, you don't necessarily listen to the words or their meaning. When you listen to a sermon, it is all about the words and their meaning.

hahaha.... I went to church for 15 years and didn't listen to a word. I know every lyric in 75% of the music I listen to. I also listen to music FAR more often than I ever went to church.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

hahaha.... I went to church for 15 years and didn't listen to a word. I know every lyric in 75% of the music I listen to. I also listen to music FAR more often than I ever went to church.

As I said in my post: when you listen to a sermon it is all about the words and their meaning.

I don't expect kids who are forced to go to church by their parents to listen to the sermon!

[KingOfJericho]

Rob, let me ask you something... Do you think that Obama shares the views of this pastor?

[Eye Candy]

He may not share the sentiments of his pastor, but he legitimizes the pastor's statements by his persistent presence in the audience. This is why a prominent politician should pick his church/spiritual advisor/mentor carefully.

I would be more understanding if Obama was married to a stripper. At least you could understand what he was getting out of the relationship on some level.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Rob, let me ask you something... Do you think that Obama shares the views of this pastor?

Not necessarily, but that doesn't end the issue, does it?

The issue is one of judgment (or, in this case, lack thereof). Why would someone continue to have such a close relationship with someone who has these extreme views if you completely disagree with them?

Of course Obama has other problems, such as the probable illegal kickbacks received via the real estate deal. Yet another curious example of (extremely) poor judgment.

For someone who is supposedly as smart as you say he is, he sure has done a lot of stupid things.

[fishguy]

of the three liberal candidates running, its starting to sound like McCain, is the "most" credible;
his handling of being a POW, saying no to an early release which was offered due to his father being an admiral. this part says a lot about any person, not ending years of hell to go home because he believed in the idea that the first captured POW should be the first one released. how many people would do that under those circustances?
Hiliary recalls dodging snipers, "oh wait , i remembered it wrong she says".
WTF!!?? if i am shot at, i would remember it correctly.

I think this church thing is going to hurt obama. Finished though, I say no, because hilary is the other potential nominee, and she is finished IMO.
so its the "big O" vs the "big mac" in november.

[pla_time]

In the grand scheme of things, I really don't care what church/synagogue/mosque/reading room/etc. a candidate goes to, or what is said by their supporters (I figure a 10% rule applies -- that is, 10% of any candidate's supporters are nutcases and wackjobs.) What I care about is what the candidate says and even more, what the candidate does or has done in the past. The best predictor of what the individual is likely to do in the future, is that he/she is doing right now, and what he/she has done in the past.

If Obama had said, "I agree with what Wright said in the specific case," I wouldn't consider voting for him. However, I am much more attuned to the fact that Obama came out against the war in Iraq, long before Hillary did (and there's still some lack of clarity regarding whether she does think it was a mistake), and of course McCain clearly believes we should have invaded Iraq (and perhaps Iran too). Although Obama's record is thinner than that of Clinton and McCain, there is a lot I don't like about either Clinton's or McCain's records. Is it a risk to vote for Obama? Yep. But, I would rather bet on the possibility (and I think a pretty good probability) of a successful presidency, than vote for a pretty-sure thing that is not so good.

Regardless, I have no illusions about how powerful an individual president actually is. Bush didn't get us into Iraq by himself, and he didn't cause the Katrina mess or the financial market mess by himself. It takes failures of all 3 branches to bring this about.

[Nawambo]

Let's not forget that Obama is not Write, he is his own man and at most Write was his "spiritual" adviser; why don't we judge Obama on his own words instead. Why don't we look at all the real advisers who are supporting him as well?

[babak]

Originally Posted by fishguy

f i am shot at, i would remember it correctly.

I've been shot at and I've been strafed, neither are forgettable, take my word for it. The realizations that somebody picked you as a target and pulled a trigger is one that leaves a lasting impression.