Is Obama finished?

[Raindem]

Originally Posted by Eye Candy

His father was Muslim, but he professes to be Christian, and has attended a christian church (Trinity Church in Chicago) for 20 years.

Yes. And based on what we've heard from his Christian mentor Obama would have been better off staying Muslim.

[Bavarian Motorist]

I like Obama. I'm just afraid he'll tax the crap out of us.

[luxige]

I'm not seeing why Obama is supposed to be responsible for Wright's words.

McCain accepted ("proudly") the endorsements of Pastors John Hagee and Rod Parsley who both have made very inflammatory and divisive public statements about religion. ("The Catholic Church is unholy", "Katrina was a judgement from God upon the city of New Orleans"). McCain was pressed about Hagee and he said he appreciated the support though he didn't agree with all his statements. That's a pretty sensible stance; the matter was dropped in the media, as it should be.

Why is there a double standard here? The press keeps hitting this story, while the same issue was dropped for McCain. For example, ABC News has repeatedly brought up Wright's statement, but has never reported on the controversial views of McCain's allies.

[ivan1]

what was McCain's relationship with those pastors? were they just endorsing him or did he attend their services for 20 years and say they were an inspiration to him? I agree that one cannot be responsible for the statements of everyone that endorses them...but in Wright's case there was a longstanding relationship with Obama...If it is the same with the pastors that endorsed McCain, then I agree there should be one standard.....

[Conrad]

My perspective from here in Europe is that a majority of Americans are not ready for a black or lady president. That if the economic woes in the U.S. continue people will look to the "security" of a McCain vote, so unless the economic outlook brightens considerably before the elections and that Obama can "reassure" voters (normally with a Muslim father he is also Muslim, whether he practices or not...this issue is one which will make foreign policy with certain countries "interesting" to say the least) as for Hillary, I believe that while she can probably get the democratic nomination, it might cost her so much credibility that by getting it she would be locking in defeat in the presidential's. Also Nader could again eat votes from democrats, not that I've heard much on that front lately.

But hey this is politics, anything can happen (trucks, heart attacks, snipers you name it...)

Just my 2p

[Moto44]

Originally Posted by Conrad

My perspective from here in Europe is that a majority of Americans are not ready for a black or lady president.

This is a view not uncommon from outside the country. However, as someone who has conducted political polls for both parties for over twenty years, I contend that America has been willing to accept a woman as president for least the past 25 years and a black as president for at least the past 15 years. I have arrived at this conclusion from multiple polls conducted from races that included females and ethnic candidates.

Although many Americans wonder if others would be willing to vote for a woman or an ethnic, the vast majority of the voting populace are willing to vote for the candidate they find most qualified regardless of their race or gender.

[tmr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
My perspective from here in Europe is that a majority of Americans are not ready for a black or lady president.

This is a view not uncommon from outside the country. However, as someone who has conducted political polls for both parties for over twenty years, I contend that America has been willing to accept a woman as president for least the past 25 years and a black as president for at least the past 15 years. I have arrived at this conclusion from multiple polls conducted from races that included females and ethnic candidates.

Although many Americans wonder if others would be willing to vote for a woman or an ethnic, the vast majority of the voting populace are willing to vote for the candidate they find most qualified regardless of their race or gender.

+1. I agree. Many voters that would not vote for Obama wouldn't hesitate for a moment to vote for Colin Powell, for instance. It's Obama's agenda that these voters disagree with, not his race. Same goes with Hillary - no problems voting for a woman, just not for her for the same reason.

What about acceptance of Muslims or other groups in Europe? Would France (for instance) elect one to their highest office? I'm willing to bet that they're less "ready" than America.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by Moto44

This is a view not uncommon from outside the country. However, as someone who has conducted political polls for both parties for over twenty years, I contend that America has been willing to accept a woman as president for least the past 25 years and a black as president for at least the past 15 years. I have arrived at this conclusion from multiple polls conducted from races that included females and ethnic candidates.

Although many Americans wonder if others would be willing to vote for a woman or an ethnic, the vast majority of the voting populace are willing to vote for the candidate they find most qualified regardless of their race or gender.

LOL, well the proof of the pudding is in the eating , but surely if this was the case then more candidates with these backgrounds would have been presented ? the more so that in congress or in the senate and in high level state positions they are many potential candidates.

As for polls on the subject..well in a country so politically correct as the US who is going to admit to be a misogynist or a racist ? I think some years ago polls showed that their would be a Hispanic president before a black one

Also when you write that people would vote for the most qualified irrespective of race or gender, I don't see how the two can be dissociated ?

Who you are and where you come from is part and parcel of how qualified you are (to varying degrees obviously, see below, but never zero) and more importantly how others perceive you to be and how they will emphasize with you ? That you can avoid stereotypes and generalizations by what you have achieved and the way you act is one thing. But you are not going to change your gender or colour, and you should not need to. I find it worrying when people have to say; dont look at me as a women/black etc.. but as a ....(whatever is applicable) , surely it should be I am a women/black etc.. and I believe...(whatever is applicable), the fact that this is isnt the case is just a reflection of peoples uncomfort with these issues, and one of the reasons that I feel it unlikely that the next president will be democrat.

having written that, I for one would be more than happy to be proven wrong this election year and would more than welcome Obama or Hillary since that would I believe pave the way, however not being American or living in the states I don't have voice in the matter, only an opinion.

[Dave]

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by tmr

Would France (for instance) elect one to their highest office? I'm willing to bet that they're less "ready" than America.

We will keep this thread civil and not mention the French ok

Joking apart this isnt a contest of who elects a minority first surely ? because if I read you view correctly then race/gender is not an issue, therefore their is no intrisic merit in electing a women or a black ?

Having said that, the French do have muslims and blacks in their governments, and have done since the sixties (in fact Houphet Boigny the first president of Côte-d'Ivoire was for a time the leader of the assembly in France, and as such the second or third highest person in the state, and potentially a replacement of the president should he be unable to govern...) See youve made me defend the French now, the shame of it.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by Dave

So youl not be voting for him then !!

But then one should also mention the nazi connection of Bush senior's father then ?

[texige]

McCain will pick Condoleezza Rice as a running mate so you can vote for a black politician and a women and be conservative. Checkmate McCain.

[tmr]

We will keep this thread civil and not mention the French ok

I have nothing against France, but was just using them as an example.

Joking apart this isnt a contest of who elects a minority first surely ? because if I read you view correctly then race/gender is not an issue, therefore their is no intrisic merit in electing a women or a black ?

Not getting personal, but weren't you the one who brought up race being a factor? I was pointing out that it wasn't race, but political views that polarized opinions about the candidates.

Having said that, the French do have muslims and blacks in their governments, and have done since the sixties (in fact Houphet Boigny the first president of Côte-d'Ivoire was for a time the leader of the assembly in France, and as such the second or third highest person in the state, and potentially a replacement of the president should he be unable to govern...) See youve made me defend the French now, the shame of it.

Minorities and women have held high positions in America for years. Secretaries of State/Defense, Supreme Court Justices, Senators, Congressmen/women, and numerous others. Neither country has had one as President, though.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Conrad

So youl not be voting for him then !!

But then one should also mention the nazi connection of Bush senior's father then ?

Well, no I won't be. I did actually post the wrong Youtube video though and I've updated it...my fat fingers.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by texige

McCain will pick Condoleezza Rice as a running mate so you can vote for a black politician and a women and be conservative. Checkmate McCain.

A very real possibility

[John]

Originally Posted by texige

McCain will pick Condoleezza Rice as a running mate so you can vote for a black politician and a women and be conservative. Checkmate McCain.

Would definitely be an interesting proposition - however, she has made it abundantly clear that she wants to return to teaching.

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by tmr

I have nothing against France,

But I do ! remember Agincourt I say

Originally Posted by tmr

but was just using them as an example.

A bad exemple then

Ok I'l stop the debatable personal humour against the French (but I reserve the right to start again)

Originally Posted by tmr

Not getting personal, but weren't you the one who brought up race being a factor? I was pointing out that it wasn't race, but political views that polarized opinions about the candidates.

I dont mind personal, I am a person And I was not agreing with you, I say that race/gender IS an issue, and that to a certain extent this is normal (see previous post).

Originally Posted by tmr

Minorities and women have held high positions in America for years. Secretaries of State/Defense, Supreme Court Justices, Senators, Congressmen/women, and numerous others. Neither country has had one as President, though.

Yes I know, my point in the previous post, was that notwithstanding this, very few PRESIDENTIAL candidates have been.

[teamturbo]

IDK why some of you hate Hillary but love Obama. They both have nearly identical political views.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Conrad

But then one should also mention the nazi connection of Bush senior's father then ?

Don't you mean Joe Kennedy?

[apk919]

Reverend Wright is, and will continue to be a problem for Obama. He should answer the following questions:

1) Does he (Obama) believe HIV was developed by the US gov't to kill people of color?

2) Does Obama think that Wright honestly believes this to be true?

This theory (and others) is specifically (and falsely) forwarded to create racial animus. It might go a long way toward explaining why Michelle Obama has only recently felt proud to be an American.