Is Obama finished?

[slaughtr]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Really?

What about these Democrats who were saying this about WMD's in Iraq:


October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry -- all Democrats :

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."




John Kerry, January 23rd, 2003:


"Without question we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator leading an impressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he's miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. His consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction."


Sandy Berger February 18th, 1998:


"He''ll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983."



Senator Carl Levin September 19th, 2002:


"We begin with a common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."


Senator Hillary Clinton, October 10th of 2002 :


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."




Madeleine Albright November 10th, 1999 :

"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."


Robert Byrd October 3rd, 2002 :


"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of '98. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."



Al Gore, September 23rd, 2002 :


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

Bill Clinton, February 17th, 1998


"If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."



Madeleine Albright, February 1st, 1998


"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."


Nancy Pelosi December 16th, 1998


"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."



Al Gore September 23rd, 2002


"We know that he has stored nuclear supplies, secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."


John Kerry October 9th, 2002


"I will be voting to give the president of the US the authority to use force if necessary to disarm Saddam because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."



Ted Kennedy September 27th, 2002 :


"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."


Jay Rockefeller October 10th, 2002 :


"There was unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. We also should remember that we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."



Senator Bob Graham December 2002 :


"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has and has had for a number of years a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."

And of course the vast majority of Democrats voted in support of the resolution to go into Iraq.

But yeah, it's all Bush's fault. Just like everything else.

Thank God someone has a memory.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Really?

What about these Democrats who were saying this about WMD's in Iraq:

And of course the vast majority of Democrats voted in support of the resolution to go into Iraq.

But yeah, it's all Bush's fault. Just like everything else.

Yeah, and none of them suggested a full scale invasion and occupation. That was Bush's fault.

Air & missile strikes are one thing. Invasion, overthrow & occupation are quite another.



.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Yeah, and none of them suggested a full scale invasion and occupation. That was Bush's fault.

Air & missile strikes are one thing. Invasion, overthrow & occupation are quite another.



.

Yeah, so voting in favor of the Iraq resolution meant they thought we would only bomb them from the air!

Ok!

[Kjakk]

Come on, you people can't have it both ways. The bottom line is the guy at the top needs to own up to it. The buck stops somwhere doesn't it? Otherwise what is the point in even having a president? Is it just a puppet / figurehead situation?

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Yeah, so voting in favor of the Iraq resolution meant they thought we would only bomb them from the air!

Ok!

Let's try this analogy...

If I give you a gun permit, and a week later you start shooting everything in sight, yeah - I take a little bit of the blame for giving you the permit. But the person pulling the trigger needs to take most of the responsibility.

The Iraq war resolution gave the President full power. But the awesome responsibility of the office of the President is to use reasonable judgement and use those full powers only when absolutely necessary. The threat from Iraq wasn't nearly at that stage.

And look at the results.

Nice to know that the guy "without any experience" (the future Senator from Illinois) had the foresight to oppose the Iraq war resolution and be vocal about it.


.

[LARRY]

Have you seen "Carrier" on PBS?

Life on the Nimitz in the Persian Gulf...

The crew very vocal with their feelings...many against the war.

Great documentary...still on PBS now!

[ivan1]

[apk919]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Have you seen "Carrier" on PBS?

Life on the Nimitz in the Persian Gulf...

The crew very vocal with their feelings...many against the war.

Great documentary...still on PBS now!

PBS... isn't that the channel with Bill Moyers? You know, that hard-hitting journalist?

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by LARRY

Or this?

larry,
i find this image incredibly offensive and disgusting on so many levels.
now then, arent you the one who calls people racists?
I have seen you do that to Ivan1 twice that i can remember.

arent you also the one who was warned by the moderators for going over the line on the political rants just a few short weeks ago.

I think you are very hypocritical in your cut and pasting and mindless dirivel.
I would also like to bring it to the attention of the moderators as i do think you are way out of line.

you may not have the mental capicicty to even realize it, but basiscally you are implying that if you dont vote for Obama, you would be a racist............
Sadly, i think many liberals who i am freinds with, are very embarrased by you and your actions here.

i would also like to point out to the moderators that this thread was just fine until "our larry" joined into the fray.

how about the moderators enforce what they threatened a few weeks ago, and give "our larry" a break from the site since he is obviously not able to control himself.

[ivan1]

I hadnt seen that (ignore list works!)...pretty despicable. Someone could have just as easily substituted Hillary for McCain in there and we never would have heard the end of it....

[cshama]

Originally Posted by Rob T

A bit of ignorance there.

As stated by Charlie Gibson in the last Democratic debate when he asked Obama about raising taxes, it has been shown that cutting taxes raises revenue to the government.

I know this concept seems foreign to liberals. Obama sure seemed confused and surprised by it.

Given their record I think republicans should be banned from talking on the military or the economy for at least 4 years. While those who have a less simplistic view of things try to make everything better again.

Sure cutting some types of taxes can spur economic growth and therefore government revenue but not if you cut the taxes of the very richest people who will buy what they want anyway and not if you tax huge corporations at ridiculously low rates and never audit them. Your theories on spending and taxing are 'voodoo economics' ( as the less stupid Bush pointed out)

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Let's try this analogy...

If I give you a gun permit, and a week later you start shooting everything in sight, yeah - I take a little bit of the blame for giving you the permit. But the person pulling the trigger needs to take most of the responsibility.



.

Flash, thank you for helping me make my point!

I never said that the Bush administration shouldn't get the majority of the blame and/or credit. All I was saying is that the Democrats share some of the blame, and you seem to admit that in your analogy.

I'm perfectly fine with that.

Go back and look at the post that I responded to:

Bush gets COMPLETE blame for the Iraq War..

I'm glad that you admit that isn't true.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Flash, thank you for helping me make my point!

I never said that the Bush administration shouldn't get the majority of the blame and/or credit. All I was saying is that the Democrats share some of the blame, and you seem to admit that in your analogy.

I'm perfectly fine with that.

Go back and look at the post that I responded to:



I'm glad that you admit that isn't true.

Right. He doesn't deserve all of the blame... just most of it.

.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Right. He doesn't deserve all of the blame... just most of it.

.

I agree. And as I said, along with that comes most of the credit as well.

Of course this leads us down the path to the next argument, which is whether you think any good has come out of going into Iraq.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by Rob T

Really?

What about these Democrats who were saying this about WMD's in Iraq:

-SNIP-

But yeah, it's all Bush's fault. Just like everything else.

Yes, really. Nobody was saying he (Saddam) was Mary Poppins. But invasion and occupation is/was a ridiculous proposition, and yet we did it.

'Greg

[slaughtr]

Oh come on guys, the Dems and Reps in Congress were not "selling him a gun permit". They were acting all tough and full bore ready to go in and kick some ass.... anyone's ass to make it look like they were doing something. Virtually nobody in office at that point was against the Iraq invasion, get your history right. They were all pandering.

Now conducting the war, that's another story......

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by slaughtr

Oh come on guys, the Dems and Reps in Congress were not "selling him a gun permit". They were acting all tough and full bore ready to go in a kick some ass.... anyone's ass to make it look like they were doing something. Virtually nobody in office at that point was against the Iraq invasion, get your history right. They were all pandering.

Now conducting the war, that's another story......

I agree %100.
Both Dems and Reps in Congress that gave to W. should take responsability for their wrong vote. Although, Hillary Clinton desperately try to deny it. What a nut!

As you said conducting the war is a different story.

But lets not forget that was Bush-Cheney's gangs that had pre-planned the invasion using WMDBS and Saddam's link to Al Qeada as excuses that we all know now it was a lie. They mislead Americans -including the majority of incompetent Congressmen- to go to the war.

Now that's not just misconducting a war my friends. This is a major war crime costing +4000 american's dead, x00,000 Iraqi's civilians life and millions of them dislocated from their home.

At the end we helped Al Qeada by spreading more terrorism and more hatred against americans in the entire world. No need to mention $ trillion dollars tax money lost, damaging the world peace, people sense of trust and security, etc..

Well, that's a quite achivement.

[pla_time]

Originally Posted by slaughtr

Oh come on guys, the Dems and Reps in Congress were not "selling him a gun permit". They were acting all tough and full bore ready to go in and kick some ass.... anyone's ass to make it look like they were doing something. Virtually nobody in office at that point was against the Iraq invasion, get your history right. They were all pandering.

Now conducting the war, that's another story......

In terms of "get your history right" it should be noted that 21 Democrats and 1 Republican in the Senate actually voted AGAINST the resolution.

In the House, the identical resolution was passed on a vote of 296-133.

I don't think in either case, that would count as "virtually nobody in office"

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by fishguy

larry,
i find this image incredibly offensive and disgusting on so many levels.
now then, arent you the one who calls people racists?
I have seen you do that to Ivan1 twice that i can remember.

arent you also the one who was warned by the moderators for going over the line on the political rants just a few short weeks ago.

I think you are very hypocritical in your cut and pasting and mindless dirivel.
I would also like to bring it to the attention of the moderators as i do think you are way out of line.

you may not have the mental capicicty to even realize it, but basiscally you are implying that if you dont vote for Obama, you would be a racist............
Sadly, i think many liberals who i am freinds with, are very embarrased by you and your actions here.

i would also like to point out to the moderators that this thread was just fine until "our larry" joined into the fray.

how about the moderators enforce what they threatened a few weeks ago, and give "our larry" a break from the site since he is obviously not able to control himself.

This is all nonsense.

What the heck are you talking about?

I posted a funny picture and you're freaking out.

Relax. It's a nice day.

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by LARRY

This is all nonsense.

What the heck are you talking about?

I posted a funny picture and you're freaking out.

Relax. It's a nice day.

Why is the picture funny? Answer that and you might understand why some people could find it offensive.

Personally, I don't mind this sort of humor. Other people have gotten pretty upset about it in the past though...