Is Obama finished?

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by Flash G

It's not spin. I applaud SOME of his efforts to cross the aisle. But to call himself a Conservative when it is polictically expedient (during the Republican primaries) when he is actually the most Liberal Republican Senator, second to Arlen Specter, is a lie!


.

What I hear when you say that is that he's moderate. And I don't like extremists of any stripe.

You're trying to pander to Republicans by saying that Obama isn't that liberal at the same time you try to convince them that McCain isn't conservative enough.

I doubt you will win many votes for Obama that way. The ultra-conservatives will vote for McCain because he's certainly more conservative than Obama...

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by apk919

+1

Fact: All politicians pander to get votes. Comes with the territory

What will they really do when they're in office?
Look at their voting record. McCain is a moderate. Obama is far left.

And what were Obama's far left votes?


.

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

What about these Democrats who were saying this about WMD's in Iraq.

If I have criticized the failure of Bush and his administration, that doesn't mean that I have completely agreed with what Democrats have done or said. They should be condemn for their wrong action and decision too.

But after seeing Reps for what they have done for 8 long f**king years, now I have chosen Democrats.

I would pick bad rather than worse.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by climb4fun

If I have criticized the failure of Bush and his administration, that doesn't mean that I have completely agreed with what Democrats have done or said. They should be condemn for their wrong action and decision too.

But after seeing Reps for what they have done for 8 long f**king years, now I have chosen Democrats.

I would pick bad rather than worse.

Politicians, like diapers, have to be changed for the same reasons!

BTW climb4fun I was a rock climber for 6.5 years. I climbed mostly at the Gunks in New Paltz, NY but also in Wyoming, Colorado (lived in Estes Park) etc. Had the license plate ONBELAY

[PhoneBoy]

Obama Does Def Comedy Jam*Video

[Chris Mackey]

Originally Posted by climb4fun

I would pick bad rather than worse.

I could not disagree more.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Flash G

And what were Obama's far left votes?


.

Check out this article from the Washington Post

Obama was the most liberal senator by voting record in 2006.

McCain had the least conservative voting record of Senate Republicans.

Full disclosure: I am not registered with any party. I'll vote for the candidate who I think will be best for the future of this nation.

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Let's also talk about McCain. I think he's trying to pull the wool over America's eyes when he calls himself a "Conservative".

That's a lie!

This is the same guy who wants amnesty for illegal aliens, opposed the "Bush tax cuts", co-sponsored McCain/Feingold, wants to shut down Guantanamo Bay, opposes "advanced interrogation techniques", etc... etc...

His mouth says one thing, but his record says another.


.

Mccain, is not a conservative by conservative standards.
he is more like an independant running under the republican ticket.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by apk919

Check out this article from the Washington Post

Obama was the most liberal senator by voting record in 2006.

McCain had the least conservative voting record of Senate Republicans.

Full disclosure: I am not registered with any party. I'll vote for the candidate who I think will be best for the future of this nation.

Did you miss my post? Is Obama finished?

Calling him the "most Liberal Senator" is misleading when he has a two or three vote difference with other Democratic Senators AND those vote differences weren't on strong left/right issues.

It sounds good for Republicans to say "He has the most Liberal voting record". But in fact, that's a highly subjective statement


.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Let's also talk about McCain. I think he's trying to pull the wool over America's eyes when he calls himself a "Conservative".

That's a lie!

This is the same guy who wants amnesty for illegal aliens, opposed the "Bush tax cuts", co-sponsored McCain/Feingold, wants to shut down Guantanamo Bay, opposes "advanced interrogation techniques", etc... etc...

His mouth says one thing, but his record says another.


.

You raise many of the very issues that conservatives are very concerned about.

He isn't "pulling the wool" over conservatives eyes, I can tell you that.

But ironically, many of the very issues you raise will be seen by the so-called "moderates" or "independents" as a positive attribute about McCain (the "Maverick") and will vote for him.

He will grab some votes from the middle, but frankly I think it will balance out because plenty of conservatives will stay home, unless he does something special in choosing his running mate.

P.S. Saying that McCain calling himself a Conservative is a "Lie" is just wrong. It is a matter of opinion, not fact. No matter how you spin it, McCain has not lied about being a conservative.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Flash G

Did you miss my post? Is Obama finished?

Calling him the "most Liberal Senator" is misleading when he has a two or three vote difference with other Democratic Senators AND those vote differences weren't on strong left/right issues.

It sounds good for Republicans to say "He has the most Liberal voting record". But in fact, that's a highly subjective statement


.

As it was pointed out... if you're comparing Obama's votes to Clinton's (who after all, is supposed to represent the ridiculously liberal state of NY), then you have a point. Unfortunately for your comparison, it seems that there's no way Clinton and Obama are going to be competitors in November. The Democratic nominee's competitor will be John McCain, so determining a candidate's "liberalness" will have to be as opposed to the Republican nominee. And there, I think the record is crystal clear. If you want a liberal President, vote for Obama... if you want a centrist, vote McCain, if you want a conservative, well, you're SOL!

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

BTW climb4fun I was a rock climber for 6.5 years. I climbed mostly at the Gunks in New Paltz, NY but also in Wyoming, Colorado (lived in Estes Park) etc. Had the license plate ONBELAY

Cool.

CLIMBERS Rock!

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by Chris Mackey

I could not disagree more.

What hell is this? An elephsquid?

What other option we have in this country? You have to be either Red or Blue right?

Other than Independants which are in minority and small.

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by climb4fun

What other option we have in this country? You have to be either Red or Blue right?

Other than Independants which are in minority and small.

....and spineless.

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by climb4fun

What other option we have in this country? You have to be either Red or Blue right?

Or you can think for yourself and be somewhere in between.

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by NMRJock

Or you can think for yourself and be somewhere in between.

Agree; everyone should think for themself; that's where I am right now.

I don't trust the current goverment. I think they have sabotaged the Constitution and damaged the US image in the entire world.

I'll vote to Obama this November because he seems to be balance, open-minded, honest and better than two other candidats.

I picked him because he has a better judgement, Not because he is from Democrat aisle.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Rob T

I was going to respond to this, but then I realized that you have already indicated, on at least two separate occasions, that you were "done with this thread", and I have no reason to believe that you wouldn't do it for a third time, so.......

Rob, The reason I left this thread in the past had nothing to do with me not having anything to say or because many were disagreeing with me... It was exclusively because everyone was able to have a pseudo-debate in a very respectful manner with the exception of you. Just so you know, I had 2 different people, who agree with your stance, send me PMs saying that they wished we could continue this interesting discussion but completely disagree with the tone of your posts and the attitude you seem to have when discussing politics and could therefor completely understand my reason for leaving the discussion. Having actually spoken to you on the phone, I know you're a nice guy, but I find your attitude toward me in this thread to be really offensive and not fitting of an intelligent adult, which I believe you are. I would really love to participate but only if I am treated with the same level of respect that I am giving you.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

Wow! He's for green grass, clean air and good schools. Typical politician avoiding specifics.

Thank you. There is no there there. Nothing of substance. Nothing he can be held accountable for when he actually takes office.

[climb4fun]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

If killing Americans is the disease then destoying our enemies is the best cure!!

If you think that Barack Obama"s charisma and eloquence will save us from a nuclear Iran you are only fooling yourself. They want us DEAD. Neville Chamberlain told the Btitish that there would be "Peace In Our Time" after he spoke with Hitler. Mean while Winston Churchill was warning of the rise of the Third Reich. If they had listened to Churchill instead of Chamberlain WW2 would not have been the horrific conflict that it was.

If you think that Obama can simply talk our enemies out of their desire to obtain nuclear weapons and then to use them against us history will repeat itself.

Sounded like someone watched too much fiction movies and History Channel ..I'm teasing.

Seriously, if you watch and listen to some independant broad cast news as much as domestic sources, you would have a better picture what's goin on now.

The fact is that only one nation has ever used nuclear weapon against humanity [and kill innocent people], and we are all living in it!

How could you justify this reality?

[slaughtr]

Originally Posted by Flash G

This is a lie perpetuated by the right wing.

The difference between Obama's voting record in the Senate and Clinton (who's considered more "moderate" or "centrist") is... TWO votes!

Your seriously trying to say Hillary is not liberal?

I think Larry would gladly disagree with you.

BTW, I don't appreciate being called a liar.