Is Obama finished?

[Conrad]

Originally Posted by apk919

Don't you mean Joe Kennedy?

No....

Just one among many http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Conrad

No....

Just one among many http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm

Wow, I needed almost three layers of tin foil to read through that trash.

[Conrad]

Mebbe this from a more credible source would help....this paper would not publish unless they were sure they could not be successfully sued for libel....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar

or closer to home, same article in foxnews

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

[ivan1]

If a candidate doesnt agree with, and repudiates, a statement made by an associate, I am willing to give them a pass...but he was a member of this church for 20 years and Rev. Wright was an inspirational leader to him..so the question is, how long has the Rev. been making these hateful statements...was Obama present at any of these sermons? (he says no -that could come back to haunt him if found to be otherwise)...If his sermons have always been this hateful and divisive, and Obama continued to be a member of that church, then it becomes a little harder to forgive...

[Conrad]

Ah yes, sorry for post hijack.

[JimSouCal]

Originally Posted by Moto44

This is a view not uncommon from outside the country. However, as someone who has conducted political polls for both parties for over twenty years, I contend that America has been willing to accept a woman as president for least the past 25 years and a black as president for at least the past 15 years. I have arrived at this conclusion from multiple polls conducted from races that included females and ethnic candidates.

Although many Americans wonder if others would be willing to vote for a woman or an ethnic, the vast majority of the voting populace are willing to vote for the candidate they find most qualified regardless of their race or gender.

Of advertising fame, it is David Ogilvy who pointed out that people are not particularly truthful when they reply to polls... Person to person verses the anonymity of the polling booth. I am not saying you are wrong, but mere that despite your data, that the counted behavior may different....

On another point, Pastor Wright might consider the Christian outlook a bit more carefully in his retirement--so he can repent and go to the heaven that he might think exists...

[luxige]

Originally Posted by ivan1

...so the question is, how long has the Rev. been making these hateful statements...

Statements such as these are made by thousands of preachers every single Sunday. A prime example would be Rev. Francis Schaffer, who traveled the country during the late 70s and much of the 80s and was a central figure in the rise of the Religious Right movement. He was hailed as a hero and dined with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr. His key message, which you can hear at any number of churches on any Sunday, is virtually the same as Wright's. (By the way, it is not a big FU to America, it is asserting that God's judgement shall be upon us for our transgressions and moral failures). The Religious Right message differed only so far as which failings were cited; acceptance of abortion and homosexuality scoring big points. Schaffer's sermons were at least as strongly worded as Wright's ("America is evil", public schools are sinful places of corruption, God will destroy us because we are Sodom). Wright says something similar, that God will (or perhaps it's should) damn us for our racism and violence.

Now, I don't agree with very much of what either of these clergymen have had to say. It's not my kind of morality. But, again, I can't help but see a double standard.

[Moto44]

Originally Posted by JimSouCal

Of advertising fame, it is David Ogilvy who pointed out that people are not particularly truthful when they reply to polls... Person to person verses the anonymity of the polling booth.

What kind of researcher and sociologist would I be if I didn't take such things into consideration? Fact is, I get hired because in the end the proof is in the numbers that I predict. Although, the statistics say that my polls have 3-5% error at 90-95% the confidence level, I have never been more than 3% off calling a general election.

[ivan1]

Sermons like that may go on every day, but a presidential candidate who is running on being able to bring people together....not be divisive...to have as an inspirational leader (originator of the Audacity of Hope title) someone who blames our country for the HIV virus as a way to kill african americans? come on

[luxige]

Clearly, he is bringing a lot of people together. Seen any of those rallies?
Obama is not Wright. I don't think the issue is relevant. Nor is the flag pin BS, etc. The Obama platform and his record of service should be the focus.

Hey, I'm a Dodd man anyway.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by luxige

Nor is the flag pin BS, etc. The Obama platform and his record of service should be the focus.

I agree with you there.....

[Moto44]

It is often very difficult to determine a politician's religious views. Many politicians profess to be Christians because they wouldn't stand a chance of getting elected in their districts if they didn't. They may even regularly attend churches that are most likely to further their political careers.

I honestly have no idea what Obama's religious views are. Personally, I don't get much of a religious vibe off of Obama. I certainly don't get a radical black activiist vibe off of him.

Ultimately, you have to judge a person based on his own words and actions. Like it or not, Obama's professed views on religion and racism have been nothing but balanced.

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by apk919

Reverend Wright is, and will continue to be a problem for Obama. He should answer the following questions:

1) Does he (Obama) believe HIV was developed by the US gov't to kill people of color?

2) Does Obama think that Wright honestly believes this to be true?

This theory (and others) is specifically (and falsely) forwarded to create racial animus. It might go a long way toward explaining why Michelle Obama has only recently felt proud to be an American.

Obama has spent all weekend disavowing Wright's words, and remember - they're Wright's words and not Obama's.

Also, FoxNews reported that during 2 of the latest inflammatory Wright speeches, Obama was out of state.

I think Republicans are being hypocritical at best. Remember when George W. Bush went to go speak at Bob Jones University?! A religious school that prohibited interracial dating.

Republicans have long been in bed with Pat Robertson, but not many of them severed ties with him after he said that "God sent the deadly hurricane Gloria to South Florida to punish them for supporting gay rights."

What about Reagan & Bush endorser reverend Jerry Falwell saying the Nine-Eleven terrorist attacks may have been God's judgment on the United States.

McCain's "spiritual adviser" has also made inflammatory comments about Catholics, Muslims, blacks and gays.



.

[pla_time]

Originally Posted by luxige

Statements such as these are made by thousands of preachers every single Sunday.
....
Now, I don't agree with very much of what either of these clergymen have had to say. It's not my kind of morality. But, again, I can't help but see a double standard.

+1
Lets not forget Bush and McCain's relationships with Bob Jones (who referred to the Catholic church as "a Satanic cult"), and McCain's flip-flop on Jerry Falwell, who made even more outrageous claims. To be honest, if one were choosing a presidential candidate on the basis of who they get in bed with (figuratively or literally), there isn't a whole lot to choose from.

Edit -- Great minds think alike, but some think faster than others. FlashG beat me by 4 minutes!!

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by pla_time

+1
To be honest, if one were choosing a presidential candidate on the basis of who they get in bed with (figuratively or literally), there isn't a whole lot to choose from.

Spitzer for President!

[qball]

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by qball

.

[chuck_risen]

I hope he is not done. I don't really like any of the candidates that much but he seems like the best choice of the list of undesirables. He seems like the most level headed of the bunch of misfits we have to choose from.

[Moto44]

I just listened to Obamas entire speech in rebuttal to these recent concerns about his church, his pastor, and regarding race. As expected, his own views are very balanced. This should be a non-issue.

[LARRY]

As the Bush idiot administration continues to destroy the economy, our only hope for redemption is a Democrat in the White House.

Obama would be a great President if he is nominated over Hilary Clinton.