Is Obama finished?

[LARRY]

Thanks!

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by apk919

I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards McCain.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by ivan1

+1

[apk919]

Originally Posted by ivan1

Originally Posted by ivan1

+1

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by ivan1

+1

[Rob T]

Originally Posted by ivan1

+1

Larry?

Is that you?

[Flash G]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

Will the people who oppose the war in Iraq please answer these questions.

1.If we pull the troops out of Iraq where do you propose that we send them?

2. What will their new mission be?

3. Will we continue "the war on terror", if so where will we fight and against who?

4. Tell me how much money we will save. We'll still have the military and we'll still be paying to deploy them somewhere else.

Instead of just constantly telling us what we shouldn't be doing tell us what we should be doing, be specific.

I can't wait to hear your answers!!

1.) 50,000 to the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, where Al Qaeda and the Taliban are strengthening. The rest come home.

2.) Go after the resurgent Al Qaeda and Taliban factions on the Afghani & Pakistani border.

3.) See answers to 1 & 2.

4.) Savings of roughly $200 Billion per year.


.

[glb]

I am surprised at support for McCain. But, I'd guess that most of you voted for Bush, so political decision-making is not your forte.

WHAT in bush's first term compelled you to believe he deserved your vote in 2004? 2000, I could possibly understand....but sheeeshh, give me a break.

Before you think to tell us of your polictical acumen, simply list the top 10 things Bush did that worked out. I've asked many of those here, including APK919 and fishguy, and never got a cogent answer.


McCain had disappointed me no end since 2000.

He is way more of a flip-flopper than Kerry.

He was against the tax cuts that create most of our deficit, but now for them.

He correctly called Falwell and that other jerk agents of division or similar, but now buddies up to them.

He changed his immigration stance to suit voters.

He embraced (literally) Bush, after Bush smeared him. He didn't even vote for bush, as it turns out.

His health care policy is incredibly lame; his plan wouldn't even cover him. He thinks "market forces" will succeed, even tho they have shown they won't. Over and over.

His economic policies (so far) would cost $300 billion: Doubling the dependent exception: $171 billion in 4 yrs! Reducing the gas tax: $10 billion. Iraq: 100's of billions, nearing a trillion.

Ask him how he intends to pay for his Iraq war.

He'll give you a lame answer about cutting "pork", i.e. earmarks. Ignoring for a moment that not all earmarks are bad, they amount to only $18 billion/yr. This is the most generous estimate I've yet seen.

Given that you guys don't exhibit much political awareness, how are you on math???

He blatantly lied about how "safe" that Iraqi marketplace was.

He can't keep Shias and Sunnis straight. He doesn't know who is aligned with whom. Made the same mistake 4 times in one week. He is either confused or had a bunch of senior moments. Either should disqualify him from being President.

He's admitted he doesn't understand much about the economy...and keeps proving it.

His reasons for voting against the "New GI Bill" are incredibly lame.

His religious guy scares me way more than Obama's.

He told ppl in the Gulf Coast he would never let what Bush did happen again. Yet, he voted against much aid for that area.

He voted for Bush policies about 95% of the time. Yet those policies have brought: *An unnecessary war; economic havoc/downturn; historic debt; historic deficits; more unemployment; billions wasted; increaqses in terrorism; more poor people; more poor children w/o medical care; billiions unaccounted for; illegal, immoral torture; spying on citizens; voter disenfranchisement; scandal after scandal; wrecking FEMA, FEC; the lowest approval rating in history; 81% of the country saying we're on the wrong track.

This country is in a bit of trouble. McCain promises more of the same.

Are you serious?? Stick to picking cars.




*For a more complete list of the failures of this Republican administration, ask me or search for some of my posts.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by glb

I am surprised at support for McCain. But, I'd guess that most of you voted for Bush, so political decision-making is not your forte.

Presumptive and childish... no need to respond

Originally Posted by glb

WHAT in bush's first term compelled you to believe he deserved your vote in 2004? 2000, I could possibly understand....but sheeeshh, give me a break.

Need I remind you that Bush is not running for president in 2008. Wake up!

Originally Posted by glb

Before you think to tell us of your polictical acumen, simply list the top 10 things Bush did that worked out. I've asked many of those here, including APK919 and fishguy, and never got a cogent answer.

Still fighting that battle?

Originally Posted by glb

McCain had disappointed me no end since 2000.

He is way more of a flip-flopper than Kerry.

Uh, no.

Originally Posted by glb

He was against the tax cuts that create most of our deficit, but now for them.

Tax cuts don't create a deficit. Spending does. You're not too good at math yourself.

Originally Posted by glb

He correctly called Falwell and that other jerk agents of division or similar, but now buddies up to them.

Really? Example please.

Originally Posted by glb

He changed his immigration stance to suit voters.

Now that's really a bad idea. Suiting voters. We'll have none of that!

Originally Posted by glb

He embraced (literally) Bush, after Bush smeared him. He didn't even vote for bush, as it turns out.

Says who? Arianna Huffington?

Originally Posted by glb

His health care policy is incredibly lame; his plan wouldn't even cover him. He thinks "market forces" will succeed, even tho they have shown they won't. Over and over.

Yeah, market forces never work. Central planning is best. See: Soviet Union, East Germany, North Korea, etc.

Originally Posted by glb

His economic policies (so far) would cost $300 billion: Doubling the dependent exception: $171 billion in 4 yrs! Reducing the gas tax: $10 billion. Iraq: 100's of billions, nearing a trillion.

And how much will Obama's cost? Yeah, I though so.

Originally Posted by glb

Ask him how he intends to pay for his Iraq war.

The same way that we've always paid for defense.

Originally Posted by glb

He'll give you a lame answer about cutting "pork", i.e. earmarks. Ignoring for a moment that not all earmarks are bad, they amount to only $18 billion/yr. This is the most generous estimate I've yet seen.

Yeah, we couldn't possibly find a better use for $18 billion/yr.

Originally Posted by glb

Given that you guys don't exhibit much political awareness, how are you on math???

Very good actually. How are you on reality?

Originally Posted by glb

He blatantly lied about how "safe" that Iraqi marketplace was.
He can't keep Shias and Sunnis straight. He doesn't know who is aligned with whom. Made the same mistake 4 times in one week. He is either confused or had a bunch of senior moments. Either should disqualify him from being President.

Better to be confused about which terrorists are which than confused about whether your own associates are terrorists!

Originally Posted by glb

He's admitted he doesn't understand much about the economy...and keeps proving it.

You mean Obama, right? He clearly doesn't understand anything about economics

Originally Posted by glb

His reasons for voting against the "New GI Bill" are incredibly lame.

Well reasoned!

Originally Posted by glb

His religious guy scares me way more than Obama's.

His religious guy? You mean his spiritual advisor? The man who married him and his wife? Baptized his children? Was the inspiration for a book he wrote? Who's insanity he listened to from a church pew for 20 years? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by glb

He told ppl in the Gulf Coast he would never let what Bush did happen again. Yet, he voted against much aid for that area.

Yeah, it's easy to legislate against a class 5 hurricane. Maybe those people would be better off replacing their idiot governor and mayor first.

Originally Posted by glb

He voted for Bush policies about 95% of the time. Yet those policies have brought: *An unnecessary war; economic havoc/downturn; historic debt; historic deficits; more unemployment; billions wasted; increaqses in terrorism; more poor people; more poor children w/o medical care; billiions unaccounted for; illegal, immoral torture; spying on citizens; voter disenfranchisement; scandal after scandal; wrecking FEMA, FEC; the lowest approval rating in history; 81% of the country saying we're on the wrong track.

Uh, quite a few democrats voted for those policies too. Haven't they had control of the house and senate for the last few years?

Originally Posted by glb

This country is in a bit of trouble. McCain promises more of the same.

As opposed to vague platitudes?

Originally Posted by glb

Are you serious?? Stick to picking cars.

Only if you promise to also.

Originally Posted by glb

*For a more complete list of the failures of this Republican administration, ask me or search for some of my posts.

That's OK, I'm pretty sure that this administration is not running for reelection.

See, that was easy!

[ezmoney]

apk919

Great post (your answers to glb). In the future please don't confuse him with the facts!

[Kjakk]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

apk919

Great post (your answers to glb). In the future please don't confuse him with the facts!

The point here is that there are negatives to McCain, if you don't believe the post here, look it up for yourself.

[Kjakk]

"* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but has since decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks. (Indeed, McCain has now hired Falwell’s debate coach.)

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.

* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.

* McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

* And now he’s both for and against overturning Roe v. Wade."

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by Kjakk

The point here is that there are negatives to McCain, if you don't believe the post here, look it up for yourself.

Of course there are. Just as there are downsides to Obama.

The perfect candidate isn't out there. I've only seen one person on here say that a candidate was 100% right on everything. If you're like most people, you have to look at where the candidates stand on a lot of issues, and then try to figure out which candidate you agree with on the issues most important to you. So many people are 'single issue voters.' In those cases, all of the discussion in the world about any of the other issues doesn't matter.

This whole Republican vs. Democrat, Us vs. Them thing is ridiculous. It's like Protestantism and Catholicism. People that really agree on 99.5% of things forming a pointless rivalry.

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by apk919

Tax cuts don't create a deficit. Spending does. You're not too good at math yourself.

Spending MINUS Taxes creates a deficit. If you tax more than you spend, you have a surplus.

(Aside: Ironic that the Democrat believes the cause of the deficit is not enough taxes, while the Republican believes the cause of the deficit is too much spending. LOL)

Originally Posted by apk919;

And how much will Obama's cost? Yeah, I though so.

As per your Bush statements... what does Obama's proposed policy have to do with McCain? As a Democrat, everyone expects increased spending from him.

Originally Posted by apk919

The same way that we've always paid for defense.

Umm.... you mean by spending money we don't have (e.g. deficit)?

Are you actually trying to make a real argument for McCain here or just playing schoolyard Republican vs. Democrat games with glb?

[apk919]

Originally Posted by smoseley

Are you actually trying to make a real argument for McCain here or just playing schoolyard Republican vs. Democrat games with glb?

Yes, thanks for noticing.

I've tried laying out longer, more extensively reasoned, and hyperlinked posts in the past, but they usually just get answered by talking points. It's a bit tiring. So instead, I just thought I'd have some fun. It's healthier.

[Brennon]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

We could bring them all home but if Iran takes over Iraq or tries to make good on its threats to destroy Isreal we would have to redeploy. If we allow the flow of oil from the middle east to be interrupted we will be looking at a depression not just a recession. We could never allow Iran to attempt the the destruction of Isreal. Isreal has the sixth largest nuclear arsenel in the world. If forced to use them the end result would be unimaginable. Even if Iran made a first strike Israel has retaliatory capabilities (nuclear submarines etc.). It is estimated a retaliatory strike would kill 30 million in Iran.

We can't make foreign policy based on what angers other nations. Our foreign policy has to be based on what's best for us. Try to live your life pleasing other people and see how far it gets you. You'll never be happy and you'll never please everyone. The same is true for nations on a much larger scale. BTW name some (any) nations that conduct their foreign policy to please us. If we turn our backs on other nations after pledging to support them (i.e. Iraq) no one will ever trust us. You don't make friends by not keeping your word.

Why redeploy? Not our problem. Israel has 200-300 nuclear missles; they can wipe out the middle east in a matter of hours. We merely hold them back from protecting themselves. If they get attacked, they can handle it. Our meddling in the affairs of the world are what create terrorism. (e.g. black ops missions going back 70 years) What's in our best interest is to end any foreign occupation as we simply cannot afford it. We have a one trillion dollar a year empire which we have no way of maintaining.

The fact that we're a 'super power' has nothing to do with terrorism. If China built a military base in the middle of the southern US, you think the locals wouldn't be shooting at them and trying to blow it up? I guess we're just 'different' and things don't apply to us.

BTW, all of what you're saying are extremely liberal ideas. (I'm not sure if you consider yourself Republican or not? Prior to 2000, that was the party line of the democrats)

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by apk919

His religious guy? You mean his spiritual advisor? The man who married him and his wife? Baptized his children? Was the inspiration for a book he wrote? Who's insanity he listened to from a church pew for 20 years? Yeah, I didn't think so.

I think he was referring to either Hagee or Parsley. Both are anti-Semitic and anti-Islamic.

I think Hagee said that Mohamed was a false prophet who spoke to Demons.

On the other hand, Parsley said he wants us to wage war on and destroy Islam. Is there such a thing as a Christian Jihadist?

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by glb

I am surprised at support for McCain. But, I'd guess that most of you voted for Bush, so political decision-making is not your forte.

WHAT in bush's first term compelled you to believe he deserved your vote in 2004? 2000, I could possibly understand....but sheeeshh, give me a break.

Before you think to tell us of your polictical acumen, simply list the top 10 things Bush did that worked out. I've asked many of those here, including APK919 and fishguy, and never got a cogent answer.


McCain had disappointed me no end since 2000.

He is way more of a flip-flopper than Kerry.

He was against the tax cuts that create most of our deficit, but now for them.

He correctly called Falwell and that other jerk agents of division or similar, but now buddies up to them.

He changed his immigration stance to suit voters.

He embraced (literally) Bush, after Bush smeared him. He didn't even vote for bush, as it turns out.

His health care policy is incredibly lame; his plan wouldn't even cover him. He thinks "market forces" will succeed, even tho they have shown they won't. Over and over.

His economic policies (so far) would cost $300 billion: Doubling the dependent exception: $171 billion in 4 yrs! Reducing the gas tax: $10 billion. Iraq: 100's of billions, nearing a trillion.

Ask him how he intends to pay for his Iraq war.

He'll give you a lame answer about cutting "pork", i.e. earmarks. Ignoring for a moment that not all earmarks are bad, they amount to only $18 billion/yr. This is the most generous estimate I've yet seen.

Given that you guys don't exhibit much political awareness, how are you on math???

He blatantly lied about how "safe" that Iraqi marketplace was.

He can't keep Shias and Sunnis straight. He doesn't know who is aligned with whom. Made the same mistake 4 times in one week. He is either confused or had a bunch of senior moments. Either should disqualify him from being President.

He's admitted he doesn't understand much about the economy...and keeps proving it.

His reasons for voting against the "New GI Bill" are incredibly lame.

His religious guy scares me way more than Obama's.

He told ppl in the Gulf Coast he would never let what Bush did happen again. Yet, he voted against much aid for that area.

He voted for Bush policies about 95% of the time. Yet those policies have brought: *An unnecessary war; economic havoc/downturn; historic debt; historic deficits; more unemployment; billions wasted; increaqses in terrorism; more poor people; more poor children w/o medical care; billiions unaccounted for; illegal, immoral torture; spying on citizens; voter disenfranchisement; scandal after scandal; wrecking FEMA, FEC; the lowest approval rating in history; 81% of the country saying we're on the wrong track.

This country is in a bit of trouble. McCain promises more of the same.

Are you serious?? Stick to picking cars.




*For a more complete list of the failures of this Republican administration, ask me or search for some of my posts.

Nicely written post.

I'll vote Obama for President.