Is Obama finished?

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by pla_time

I don't find your attribution of your words to me to be particularly funny or appropriate. Some of us are trying to have a serious discussion here, and all you have done is to show that you have nothing useful to add.

Try harder you're not doing a good enough job!

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by glb

So, must I now remind you of the 50+ Republican scandals afoot?

A small sampling:

Enron

No bid contracts to cronies

Billions unaccounted for in Iraq

Lying about true Medicare costs while threatening to fire the actuary who wanted to tell Congress

Blackwater, big contributor, accountable to no one

Ameriquest and Countrywide (see "secrets of the housing crisis" here)

Lying about the Iraq intelligence (635 times as shown in a recent study)

Lying about the Iran intelligence

Sex scandals involving many Republicans...with boys and girls (no horses)

Tom Delay, Tom Delay, Tom Delay's associates

Outing an active CIA agent

Covering up that lie.

DOJ, now under investigation


this is too easy....like shooting babies in a barrel.

As they say "more available upon request".

One of my favs: Bowen, the inspector general in Iraq has uncovered many millions (if not billions) in fraud by our American sub-contractors. He's done an admirable job....which is why the republicans wanted to fire him. Luckily, the Dems and a few Republicans kept this from happening.

Can you guess the motivation for his firing?

This is another "battle" you've begun that you cannot win.

HEY.....WHERE's MY LIST?

Shows how corrupt politicians have become on both sides of the isle. Remember 'politicians like diapers need to be changed for the same reasons'.

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

I guess you would rather live in vain than die anyway there is.

I would rather just not die. Does that make me vain?

Originally Posted by ezmoney

Some systems need to be destroyed and replaced by better systems (i.e. destroy communism replace with democracy).

My point wasn't whether or not they need to be replaced or not, only that if you change the defining rules of the system, you necessarily destroy it.

Originally Posted by ezmoney

We have a representative democracy. Change the form of voting (from electoral college to popular vote) and you have a democracy that is little better than anarchy.

Again, I wasn't making a statement of qualification, only of quantification to illustrate my point.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by glb

So, must I now remind you of the 50+ Republican scandals afoot?

No bid contracts to cronies

Billions unaccounted for in Iraq

the no bids are ILLEGAL - complete violation of FAR regulations and it is truely mind boggling that no one has been hung on these - as there are many that get hung for far violations that are legit mistakes in the thousands of dollars (like violating travel regulations etc..) how certain people (ummm... the vp?!) got away will billions in FAR violations is... INSANE! people on that side of the house are astonished, ashamed and shocked that the accountable people are not in jail - ....billions have been stolen, flat out, no excuses, stolen! and zero accountability. the croonism thing is not an exageration at all - it is alot worse than most people hear about. and it is not a lie that the "war" has been used as a medium to launder and steal HUGE sums. of money from the US taxepayers - its real legit have a civil revolution worthy stuff - but i guess as long as people have A/C and leather in their suv's... they don't care - really all the evilness done for the sake of getting even more rich - its sick to know that people like that really do exist and do thoose unconsciousnable things, and are even respected.

blackwater is a little more complicated since, by nature, they must operate in the gray for what they got overly funded to do anyways... i mean - they certainly made bad judgements, and put cash before security. but some things are complicated, and some of those instances i know about are complicated - but i don't know the scandle side details anyways for sure - it was another case (but lesser than others... the vp's name keeps comming up doesn't it?) of granting no bid money to buddies to get them super rich in there little business venture. sickos! if there is any justice, those responsible will rot in hell for a very long time.

nothing to do with rep vs. dem though in my mind though - just evil poeple being evil.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by smoseley

I would rather just not die. Does that make me vain?

no - you, and everyone else - only experinaces this because you are relativly comfortable, and the actions you don't like, has little affect on your day to day life.

...once your brother gets drug out onto the street in the middle of the night and shot, and your mother get sent to a rape camp, and your neighboors feet get shot off.... you will definatly "give me liberty or give me death"
thats how our current system in the US gets away with so much corruptions (from both parties) - the systems makes sure the citizens are more comfortable in complacency than in revolution... so, no revolution. i think IMO - were need a revolution in a big way - let the blood run, heads roll and the bodies hang in the streets. - but it will never happen, not unless people lives get really tough - not 'enough' idealism in our nature - too much materialism motivates our actions and viewpoints.

i am outraged by this lack of idealism in the world

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

Some systems need to be destroyed and replaced by better systems (i.e. destroy communism replace with democracy).
.

communism is making a comeback! its getting a little bondo and some new paint, but its a revisionist leverage of current conditions. i mean - if stalin can make a come back....

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by fitfan

you are relativly comfortable, and the actions you don't like, has little affect on your day to day life. ... thats how our current system in the US gets away with so much corruptions (from both parties) - the systems makes sure the citizens are more comfortable in complacency than in revolution... so, no revolution. i think IMO - were need a revolution in a big way

Your points contradict each other:

1. The citizens of the US are comfortable and complacent, and that's why we don't want a revolution.
   
   
2. We need a revolution in a bad way.

If everyone is comfortable and complacent, then by definition, we don't need a revolution.

It's when the majority are unconfortable and discontented that a revolution is needed.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

IWho has forgotten Afganistan? We just sent more marines there.

...so after al lthese years we are finally getting there?

been there and elsewhere for many years in reality though- so again i ask, what do you think was the trigger for 9/11? but it is criminal in some regards that, in the name of fighting the enemy, we waged war on a legit nation and 'neglcted' the real threats.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by smoseley

Your points contradict each other:

1. The citizens of the US are comfortable and complacent, and that's why we don't want a revolution.
   
   
2. We need a revolution in a bad way.

If everyone is comfortable and complacent, then by definition, we don't need a revolution.

It's when the majority are unconfortable and discontented that a revolution is needed.

frame thoose two issues once, in materialism.

then again in idealism

and i think you get my point. i tend to write a little cryptic and let the reader make their own judgments.

they 'don't' revolt because of what motivates their complacency. a bit of the fate of the modern world though - not isolated to the us at all.

idealistically we need a revolution - materialistaclly we are still fat and happy in our lives. - hence the cute little statement at the end. i personally 'wish' we in our current human condition were more idealistic. cash, comfort, and convienance. it's nice yeah - but i dunno, what kind of legacy are we leaving behind? what kind of progress as a human race of ethical and accountable creatures are we advancing?

[smoseley]

Maybe materialism was manufactured to create complacent, non-violent citizens. What's that BBC show again... Happiness Machines?

Yeah, so what's the point? We should fight the system and make the world a better place and be miserable and die for it? Why not just be happy and complacent little sheep being led to the slaughter (figuratively). Baaaah, baaaaah, baaaaah!!!

They (those in power) won't take away our happiness, because that's what keeps us on the path (of least / no resistance).

[Moto44]

Originally Posted by smoseley

Maybe materialism was manufactured to create complacent, non-violent citizens.

No, that's what television and the internet were created for.

[glb]

Originally Posted by fishguy

a ballot that is is stright by the party lines would indicate someone is closed-minded.
i think you fit the definition perfectly.
tell us your not going to vote and dont vote in the past a straight democratic ticket.
you are the pot calling the kettle black glb.

signed,
An independant

Perhaps you missed the earlier post wherein I mentioned Republicans I like.

I will always vote the the best candidate, your assumptions aside.

Is it my fault that lately that list of my choices does not include any Republicans?

Note: I liked Christie Whitman, gov in NJ, until she drove the state into enormous debt by borrowing to offer unaffordable tax cuts to get elected; messed up EZ pass and state auto inspections, gave sweetheart deals to her cronies and campaign mgr.

She was much better environmentally than I expected...oh, until she got to run the EPA.

Fish, aren't you another bush voter/supporter who owes me a list? If I've confused you w/someone else, I apologize.


PS: Reagan sucked too.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by glb

Perhaps you missed the earlier post wherein I mentioned Republicans I like.

I will always vote the the best candidate, your assumptions aside.

Is it my fault that lately that list of my choices does not include any Republicans?

Note: I liked Christie Whitman, gov in NJ, until she drove the state into enormous debt by borrowing to offer unaffordable tax cuts to get elected; messed up EZ pass and state auto inspections, gave sweetheart deals to her cronies and campaign mgr.

She was much better environmentally than I expected...oh, until she got to run the EPA.

Fish, aren't you another bush voter/supporter who owes me a list? If I've confused you w/someone else, I apologize.


PS: Reagan sucked too.

You like some 'republicans-in-name-only', you don't like conservative republicans. That's ok it doesn't make you a bad person. Just when I was beginning to like you, you admit that you may be confused.

[glb]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

We went in with what we had after 8 years of budget cuts in defense spending. In the 1st Gulf war we were able to field 500k troops. We didn't have that capability in 2003.

I'd be really hard pressed to support a new draft. If that is the only way to get the manpower to defend the USA I might 'hold my nose' and accept it.

glb

If you could devise a battle plan that would not change after contact with the enemy and would achieve all of its objectives you would be better know than Eisenhower, Rommel, Lee, US Grant ........
The enemy does not sit idly by allowing us to have our way. They change tactics to compensate for our actions. That is the nature of warfare. It's not possible to go into the field with everthing you need because you can't anticipate every thing the enemy might do. I wish war could be that easy.

1, See the prev post about the "coalition".

2. Plenty of Pentagon gens told this admin how many troops were required and, as I've state, there are ez formulas for this that have proven to be correct for yrs and many occupations.

3. SO you are echoing Rummie's line about "going to war with the army you have". It was laughable then, and moreso now.

4. Sorry, but State predicted much of what would occur, as did others IN the govt. Tell me why the generals were told not to even open the State report (which was huge and cost a few million to produce). Please.

5. Again, you are not answering my question, which had nothing to do with "defending" the US. You are either unable to, sneaky or delusional. There was no threat to us in Iraq.

Let me answer the larger question for you; it will be illuminating.

WHY did we rush in and WHY couldn't we have waited until our forces were ready? WHY did we ignore our allies entreaties? What difference would a year have made, overall?

a. This admin said we wanted to go in before it got too hot in summer. Well, we seem to have survived 5 summers quite well.

b. The admin said it was costing money to have troops staged in Kuwait, etc. So, why did we send them there so soon? Didn't we have to pay them anyway?

c. I have the name of a wounded soldier I helped out one day. He was setting up refueling stations in Iraq 18 months before we invaded. So, do you think we actually deliberated about going in? Remember what I told you about 9/12/01 and Rummy, Cheney and Bush demanding a tie-in to Iraq, even after they were told there was none.

d. Note that the top anti-terrorism guy in Australia sent a memo to their PM that stated the whole wmd thing was a "scam". This news broke about 2 yrs ago.


The reason we went in too early, with not even enough troops to protect the armories (can you guess where those weapons ended up??) and borders:

We had weapons inspectors in Iraq, from here and from other countries. They were finding nothing. They repeatedly asked us to provide the locations of what we'd claimed were labs and stocks. We could not.

This administration knew that shortly it would be known that what much of the world suspected was true. There were NO wmds.

So, our rationale (ugh) for invading would have evaporated. Our handful of allies wouldn't go along, we would be stuck with.....peace there.

Remember the British intelligence that surfaced that claimed the intelligence (?) was "fixed". Our former allies KNEW this, or at least suspected it.

Those 40 Polish guys could've stayed home. Along with that Swedish (or Norwegian) woman.


People have also said the admin felt the stock mkt needed a boost, but I've no particular knowledge of that.

But, certainly, not invading would've deprived republican supporters of the chance for big profits.

I can't believe families had to send their kids body armor.


ez - before you get upset at my "delusional" remark, do me a favor.

Measure your arm from top of shoulder to wrist. Then, measure your sleeve length. Is the latter 60% greater than the former? Is the garment you are wearing all white?

Keep me posted.

[glb]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

You like some 'republicans-in-name-only', you don't like conservative republicans. That's ok it doesn't make you a bad person. Just when I was beginning to like you, you admit that you may be confused.

confused about what?

I hope my prev post doesn't change your mind about liking me.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by glb

confused about what?

I hope my prev post doesn't change your mind about liking me.

Confused about who owes you a list!
Not at all. I'll buy you a beer at Smiles 2!

[glb]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

I hate to tell you but we don't need permission or cooperation from other nations to defend ourselves. The EU needed us to handle Bosnia in their own backyard.


No ground invasion? I guess you were out that day.

Who has forgotten Afganistan? We just sent more marines there.

ez -

Again, as has been PROVEN, we were NOT defending ourselves.

In Gulf war, I see what we did as in incursion into Iraq, not an invasion. Just my opinion. Bush I was smarter than his idiot son.

We are frigging losing what we gained in Afghanistan...because of our invasion of Iraq.

I watched an interview with the lead general at Tora Bora (?) where we thought we had bin Laden cornered. You should have seen his face, heard his words when he related what happened when he was told to pull out and head towards Iraq. It looked as if he was in physical pain. He was certainly angry.

Experts say the true center of the wot is Afghanistan and its border w/Pakistan. So, of course we headed to Iraq.



Continuing a theme: Where you live now, do the newspapers they give you have huge holes cut into them? (sorry, I'll stop soon.)

[ivan1]

can we take a poll?

# of previous Obama supporters now convinced to support McCain: 0
# of previous McCain supporters now convinced to support Obama: 0

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by glb

ez - before you get upset at my "delusional" remark, do me a favor.

Measure your arm from top of shoulder to wrist. Then, measure your sleeve length. Is the latter 60% greater than the former? Is the garment you are wearing all white?

Keep me posted.

Originally Posted by glb

ez - Continuing a theme: Where you live now, do the newspapers they give you have huge holes cut into them? (sorry, I'll stop soon.)

Greystone Park is closed so I'm homeless. All I have is my straight jacket to keep me warm! I have a sense of humor so I don't get offended or annoyed by the jabs. I've read enough of your posts to see that you do not intentionally make personal attacks of a malicious nature.

[ezmoney]

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