Philosophically, do you agree? - Page 2 - LotusTalk

fitfan · 10-06-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moto44

I'm not so sure that's true. Has life ever been more complex? Have the roles we are expected to fulfill ever been more uncertain?

At one time, if your father was a farmer, you learned to farm and likely became a farmer yourself. You had work to do and understood your role.

i am inclined to agree with you - i think the modern life makes it more difficult to access ones true nature, and therefore be self-realized. materialism gets in the way, and its so intrensic in out daily lives now

of how did thoreau himself say? ...hold on i have to look it up!

here it is...

Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind

Cardinal · 10-06-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitfan

i am inclined to agree with you - i think the modern life makes it more difficult to access ones true nature, and therefore be self-realized. materialism gets in the way, and its so intrensic in out daily lives now

of how did thoreau himself say? ...hold on i have to look it up!

here it is...

Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind

I'd say that too if I lived in a shack.

apk919 · 10-06-2009, 08:42 PM

Who's read the Unabomber Manifesto? Not as crazy as you might think...

(speaking of living in shacks, the complexity of modern life, and man's "loss of purpose")

PhlypSide · 10-06-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetoast

Voted yes. The way I see it, the vast majority of people fit in one of two categories:

-Their ambition is bigger than their accomplishments, meaning they're not yet fulfilled
-They have accepted a lower rung in life than what they had previously imagined for themselves

^^^^ bingo.

JoshS · 10-07-2009, 05:57 AM

Before I answer. Is rap considered a song?

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apk919

Probably true in Thoreau's time. Today... I don't think so.

Upon further reflection, on average, life probably was full of greater emotional hardships during the 1700's and 1800's. Today, we all understand the stress brought about by change and uncertainty. However, the greatest emotional hardship is likely to be grief. The early and/or unexpected loss of loved ones was a much more common occurrence before our time.

evomind · 10-07-2009, 07:05 AM

arent you in marketing?
perhaps philosophy is your quiet desperation.

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

arent you in marketing?

The better we understand human nature, the easier it is to manipulate it.

Mmmmm....a soda and some pizza sure sound good about now, don't they?

evomind · 10-07-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moto44

The better we understand human nature, the easier it is to manipulate it.

Mmmmm....a soda and some pizza sure sound good about now, don't they?

no, not really..

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 07:49 AM

I already know your hot buttons, mister.

PhlypSide · 10-07-2009, 07:58 AM

^^^ Yeah there's two in his avatar!

Lotus Fury · 10-07-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milehitom

Most men can't sing.

Tom

Yes you can (with some help): Auto-Tune - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lotus Fury · 10-07-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitfan

Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind

Reminds me of: Brave New World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think that this is one of the reasons I like to do things the hard way. Takes more effort and you learn more.

lotusland · 10-07-2009, 08:07 AM

I just finished reading The Consolations of Philosophy by Alain de Botton. This book spends some time covering the topic of materialism and general satisfaction with life. The reviews are very mixed on this book, with the main complaints being that it is too light, but I enjoyed it very much. De Botton is one my favorite modern writers and is currently writer-in-residence at Heathrow airport.

I voted no to this question. Although I understand the concept, for me there are many ways to avoid this desperation and the disappointment in life that it suggests. Most of these are not concerned with success in business or work, although of course success or failure in one's work can greatly impact one's level of desperation.

For example, last month a friend and I lead a group of 20 scouts and parents on a week-long backpack through the high Sierra, including a stop at the summit of Mt. Whitney. This outing was fun, but also very hard, and was a major achievement for all of us. All of the scouts and some of the adults first learned how to backpack on other treks I helped with, and it was a great experience seeing all of them complete this difficult trek. For me, as with Thoreau, time spent in places like the Sierra can more than make up for other times that are perhaps not as rewarding. Sharing this kind of experience with others only makes it greater.

There are many other things that make life much more than a desperate existence. What about music? Listening to music, or even better, making music, can by itself change not just the perception of the moment but the value of a day or more. I consider any given year to have been a great one if I can find one new artist that I really like, someone that I will listen to forever.

And what about kids and family? There are a few things I do with my kids -- reading to them at night, taking them to new foreign locations, even walking them to school, that by themselves make for a life that is far from desperate.

And finally -- what about our cars! We all know that any drive in a Lotus can serve as a major stress relief. Last night I came back from an out-of-town sales call, dropped the soft top and had the drive from the airport to home to do nothing but drive. Where is the desperation? This from a car that can cost as little as $25k. The car -- and this community -- have mental components well in excess of the basic transportation components.

I'm really surprised at the number of "yes" votes here. I really hope not everyone is having so much work strife that their existence can be described by the word desperation.

ZTEC · 10-07-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitfan

i am inclined to agree with you - i think the modern life makes it more difficult to access ones true nature, and therefore be self-realized. materialism gets in the way, and its so intrensic in out daily lives now

of how did thoreau himself say? ...hold on i have to look it up!

here it is...

Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind

Totally agree with this! We have become soft, We have lost touch with our abilities to survive without a grocery store and to me more importantly This neon distraction has kept our attention from growing spiritually. Not all of us but the majority of sheep we pass by on a daily basis. Carl Jung inspires me as does Melchizadek! I am confident my life will be a journey of balance to live with one foot in society and one foot stepping through my shadow reaching for a higher state of enlightenment and I am fully aware that it may not be possible to find that place and when the time comes I will make a decision, One day if you want to visit me you might have to find that cabin in the mountains

Right now I can tell you I will really miss the Lotus -

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 08:48 AM

But don't luxuries become a positive if our attitude is one of appreciation?

xtn · 10-07-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moto44

Philosophically, do you agree?

Yes I agree; it's been quite a while since you created a useless poll.

xtn

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtn

Yes I agree; it's been quite a while since you created a useless poll.

Moto44 · 10-07-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotusland

There are many other things that make life much more than a desperate existence.

You make some fine points. I'm as guilty as anyone of having tried to love things and activities. But in the end, it is always sharing those things and activities with others that is most fulfilling.

slaughtr · 10-07-2009, 12:39 PM

Todd, my brain hurts from reading your poll.

View Poll Results: Thoreau wrote, "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave..."
Agree	38	66.67%
Disagree	9	15.79%
Not sure	10	17.54%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

10-06-2009, 08:42 PM	#23 (permalink)
apk919 ΒÄŅNED Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Limbo Posts: 6,281 Images: 20	Who's read the Unabomber Manifesto? Not as crazy as you might think... (speaking of living in shacks, the complexity of modern life, and man's "loss of purpose") __________________ * 2009 Lotus Challenge Series Rookie Of The Year * (Thanks Jim, Tom, Jack, Rob & Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch!) My videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/apk919

10-07-2009, 05:57 AM	#25 (permalink)
JoshS Come on down Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,971	Before I answer. Is rap considered a song? __________________ '06 Elise Phantom Black, Touring, Starshield, Powder Coated Black Wheels, Bobble head IMUS

10-07-2009, 07:05 AM	#27 (permalink)
evomind J. Caesar Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chicagoland Posts: 5,417	arent you in marketing? perhaps philosophy is your quiet desperation. __________________ Vati. C6 ZO6. THE OBITS, YO! KEEP CRYIN! WHAA! REDNECK = PERSON WHO LIVES IN A DUMP BUT DRIVES AN ELISE! I never played by the rules, and I never really cared My nasty reputation takes me everywhere It is admitted by all that he was much addicted to women, as well as very expensive in his intrigues with them, and that he debauched many ladies of the highest quality; among whom were Posthumia, the wife of Servius Sulpicius; and Lollia, the wife of Aulus Gabinius.

10-07-2009, 07:49 AM	#30 (permalink)
Moto44 Back in the Saddle Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,807	I already know your hot buttons, mister. __________________ If nobody ever died doing it, how much fun could it be?

10-07-2009, 08:07 AM	#34 (permalink)
lotusland Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 179 Images: 7	I just finished reading The Consolations of Philosophy by Alain de Botton. This book spends some time covering the topic of materialism and general satisfaction with life. The reviews are very mixed on this book, with the main complaints being that it is too light, but I enjoyed it very much. De Botton is one my favorite modern writers and is currently writer-in-residence at Heathrow airport. I voted no to this question. Although I understand the concept, for me there are many ways to avoid this desperation and the disappointment in life that it suggests. Most of these are not concerned with success in business or work, although of course success or failure in one's work can greatly impact one's level of desperation. For example, last month a friend and I lead a group of 20 scouts and parents on a week-long backpack through the high Sierra, including a stop at the summit of Mt. Whitney. This outing was fun, but also very hard, and was a major achievement for all of us. All of the scouts and some of the adults first learned how to backpack on other treks I helped with, and it was a great experience seeing all of them complete this difficult trek. For me, as with Thoreau, time spent in places like the Sierra can more than make up for other times that are perhaps not as rewarding. Sharing this kind of experience with others only makes it greater. There are many other things that make life much more than a desperate existence. What about music? Listening to music, or even better, making music, can by itself change not just the perception of the moment but the value of a day or more. I consider any given year to have been a great one if I can find one new artist that I really like, someone that I will listen to forever. And what about kids and family? There are a few things I do with my kids -- reading to them at night, taking them to new foreign locations, even walking them to school, that by themselves make for a life that is far from desperate. And finally -- what about our cars! We all know that any drive in a Lotus can serve as a major stress relief. Last night I came back from an out-of-town sales call, dropped the soft top and had the drive from the airport to home to do nothing but drive. Where is the desperation? This from a car that can cost as little as $25k. The car -- and this community -- have mental components well in excess of the basic transportation components. I'm really surprised at the number of "yes" votes here. I really hope not everyone is having so much work strife that their existence can be described by the word desperation.

10-07-2009, 08:48 AM	#36 (permalink)
Moto44 Back in the Saddle Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,807	But don't luxuries become a positive if our attitude is one of appreciation? __________________ If nobody ever died doing it, how much fun could it be?

10-07-2009, 12:39 PM	#40 (permalink)
slaughtr Big head man Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 5,953 Images: 3	Todd, my brain hurts from reading your poll. __________________ My car both sucks and blows. Now with added all natural smoky goodness!

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