Talk to me about Italian bikes..

[IamBatman]

I really don't get the whole fascination with them (namely Ducati's)
I look at an Italian Car (Lambo, F-car, Maserati), I drive one, I hear one and I "Get IT": its blows you away in all aspects and evokes more passion and excitement then anything the Japanese or American car makers can produce.

Italian bikes, to me, don't look all that much different then a Japanese Crotch rocket, the performance is not much different, and to me sounds like crap around town (sounds like a broken gear or a bad valve)

why are they so desirable? racing heritage (Japanese bikes have that), performance (ditto), Styling (subjective, but the IMO the most "beautiful" bikes are the Hayabusa and the Confederate Wraith).... why do they cost so much more then a Japanese crotch rocket? educate me please...

[craracer]

I do get questions about the dry clutch "jingle", but the 54mm titanium 1/2 system sounds absolutely gorgeous. I love the torque of the twin engine, and the uniqueness of the Desmo valves (although I hate adjustments).

Higher costs have to do with lower production numbers and less automation at the factory. I watched a movie about the Ducati Factory and discovered that my engine was lovingly built by the tender hands of a smoking hot Italian female. I don't care what you say, she did build my engine, and she built it with me in mind.

Ducati is about race heritage. The looks of the 998/996/748 really stood the test of time. I saw my bike on a stand in the dealers owner's office and knew I had to have it. It was December and the roads were covered with snow, so no chance of riding it. I didn't care, so I bought it on the spot.

I've never regretted it, and will probably never sell it. To this day, I still love looking at it, and it draws almost as much attention as the Lotus. It's a piece of art to me.

Love is in the eye of the beholder. On the surface my bike may "look" like a Japanese bike, but upon closer inspection the differences are quite apparent.

[IamBatman]

Thanks for the response.. so does it ride differently then a Japanese bike?

[Viggen]

I think the same arguements can be made with the italian cars. Does the 200K+ asking price really make it better then the sub $100K price of a Nissan GT-r or a 120K ZR-1?

HD Theatre has a show on Ducati, has some pretty cool footage. Low volume, hand built makes it more expensive then a mass produced robot made maching.

I do not think they sound like crap.... the torquey note of the L twin is awesome, I prefer it to the screaming of a jap bike. The Duk's are not really made for anything under 40mph according to some sites I have read. I have been debating on selling my Buell 1125cr for a 1198 Ducati or a 1098 Ducati but I am not sure if it's a smart move. People state under 40mph they are very hot & do not like city driving much. I love the looks/styling & feel the jap bikes use to look good but they are doing to much funky stuff with the styling. If I don't do the Ducati 1098/1198 the Honda CBR-1000rr is probably what I will do. But I want a V/L twin for the torque......

[Viggen]

O yea, forgot to say... fiance is a bike person..... she doesn't like Ducati's at all, think they sound like crap

[ChronosWS]

The Ducati's are twins, so that's why they sound different. If you compare them to something like an SV650 or SV1000 (discontinued) you'll see. As a result they also tend to be thinner, especially the race bikes.

But really, it's just a matter of what you like. I've ridden Ducati's and I don't much care for them - to me they don't have the sense of effortlessness that the Hayabusa or a GSX1000R has - but that's because of the character of the twin, not because the bike is bad in any objective way.

I wouldn't trade my Hayabusa for any italian bike though - or any other bike for that matter. I'm still waiting for a bike which really is better to come along.

[308tr6]

I have never - never, ever, heard anything better than my Ducati 999 with termignoni's. Period.

Go ride a late model japanese bike of any kind through some mountain twisties, park it, go ride a modern duc rocket through the same. If you don't get it, save several $$$$ and buy the japanese bike. It moves some people, some people - ehhh... not so much.

For me my previous R6 was very fun, but the Duc was somewhat religious...

[jroberts86]

Originally Posted by IamBatman

I really don't get the whole fascination with them (namely Ducati's)
I look at an Italian Car (Lambo, F-car, Maserati), I drive one, I hear one and I "Get IT": its blows you away in all aspects and evokes more passion and excitement then anything the Japanese or American car makers can produce.

Italian bikes, to me, don't look all that much different then a Japanese Crotch rocket, the performance is not much different, and to me sounds like crap around town (sounds like a broken gear or a bad valve)

why are they so desirable? racing heritage (Japanese bikes have that), performance (ditto), Styling (subjective, but the IMO the most "beautiful" bikes are the Hayabusa and the Confederate Wraith).... why do they cost so much more then a Japanese crotch rocket? educate me please...

Have you checked out or ridden: MV Agusta 312R? Aprilia RS250? Some of the others? Ducati--I really like the 851 and 888. Try one--no they are not for everyone. Kinda like Lotus...

[Yamanator]

Originally Posted by 308tr6

I have never - never, ever, heard anything better than my Ducati 999 with termignoni's. Period.

Go ride a late model japanese bike of any kind through some mountain twisties, park it, go ride a modern duc rocket through the same. If you don't get it, save several $$$$ and buy the japanese bike. It moves some people, some people - ehhh... not so much.

For me my previous R6 was very fun, but the Duc was somewhat religious...

You should hear my Buell then with a Jardine exhaust.

[Gabriel Tyler]

Questions like this always seem a little odd to me. There is something very special about Ducati bikes, and if you have to ask what....then no amount of explaining will do. We are each drawn to what we find attractive. For someone else, a Yamaha RD400 might be their ultimate bike. I can totally appreciate that, but for me? The 996/998 is IT!

Mine is so pretty, I want to park it in the kitchen and eat sushi off it, like some people do off the stomach of a model.

[Allan Gibbs]

Well, if you think the most beautiful bike is a Hayabusa, then we can't help you.

Seriously, it's really is about design -just like a Ferrari vs. a Nissan GT-R. For example, let's look at Ducati's 999 (circa 2003-2006). Some people love it and, without a doubt, it was techically superior to its predecessor (Ducati's 916-998) but to the majority of potential buyers it didn't appeal to them so sales sufferred, and Ducati replaced it with the 1098/1198 (2007 to current)which is more of an evolution of the Ducati 998.

Also, today's Ducati's aren't that much more expensive than their Japanese counterparts. Five years ago, the Ducati 999 would have MSPRed around $19K while the Japanese liter bikes at the time would be about $10K. Today, the 1198 goes for $16,500 (originally $15K when relased in 2007) while the Japanese liter bikes are about $12 to $13.K. MV Agusta also followed this trend to steal more of the market from (mostly) Ducati and Japanese bikes. The 2009 F4 312RR MSRPed for $25,000. The 2010 model is $18,500. I think this is also to compete with BMW's new S1000RR which has a base price of around $14,000 (minus the traction control, race ABS, and speed shifter).

Performance is also a little subjective because it's more than just numbers. Personally, I like the handling and feedback of Italian bikes. I've owned a '02 and '04 R1 (which was one of the most beautiful bikes made IMO) as wells as some older Ninjas but they've never given me the feedback as Ducati and especially MV Agustas do. It would be like a Z06 vs. and Elise in terms of road feel both are capable but one gives you more feedback. I don't like throwing a motorcycle into a corner and hope it holds. I need to feel what's going on.

Ducati's have a sort of advantage/disadvantage vs. their Japanses four cylinders. They don't have the big hour power numbers the Japense or BMW's S1000R have but they do make that up in torque (about 97pounds on the 1198). So, for street or canyon riding (where you're not always at 9,000+ rpm), the 1198 is very effective. But that really comes down to a v-twin vs. four cylinder agrument.

I guess the one performance advantage the Ducati, MV Agusta, and BMW S1000RR have over the current Japanese bike is multi-staged traction control. Japanese bikes have different fuel mapping for various road condition (road, track, rain) but not full traction control systems - but I expected you'll see that on their 2011 or 2012 models.

As for the Ducati's dry clutch, I really have to agree with you there. They do sound like crap and I, can't for the life of me, figure out why Ducati owners go for those open clutch covers to make them sound even more louder. I really HATE the sound of Ducati dry clutchs. The only saving grace it the sound of thier exhaust with an aftermarket exhaust.

Bottomline, it's really emotional appeal. Sport bike performance and technology get's outdate (at least for a marketing perspective )every 2-3 years. And that emotional appeal draws people to Ducati whether it's the styling or that rattling dry clutch -the performance or racing wins is just some icing on the cake.

So, it really is like Ferrari vs. the GT-R comparision. (And on a side note, I think Ferrari's don't sound that great either. When I hear one but don't see it, I think it's a Ricer car with an exhaust.)

[craracer]

so does it ride differently then a Japanese bike?

The ride isn't much different, but cornering is. I really have to muscle my 748 into the corners at the track, whereas my SV650 race bike is relatively effortless.

I had the chance to ride a newer generation Ducati, and as I recall, it was much easier to flick into a corner. It seemed to be a bit twitchy initially, but once in the corner it instantly became planted. Keep in mind that this was a bike off the showroom floor, and wasn't "setup". Some minor adjustments to ride height, sag, rake & trail would more than likely resolve any issues. The bike was minuscule in width compared to my current ride.

[Hand_Banana]

Originally Posted by craracer

The ride isn't much different, but cornering is.

Really? Personally, I think other than the fact that they sit on 2 wheels twins and 4 cylinders have very little in common as far as the ride goes. I owned an R6 for 2 months and hated it because even in the straights it felt like it had next to nothing on the low end and WAY too much after 10k rpms. I hated that huge surge of power all at once because it usually came just before I had to brake for a turn and it never gave me enough confidence to ever feel comfortable on it. On the other hand my 848 has plenty of power on tap in the lower range and more than enough (for me) on the high end, though it does feel like it drops off quite a bit in comparison to the R6. The 2bikes feel like night and day, but I guess that's just me.

[ChronosWS]

All 600cc sportbikes are like that. Twins are also known for low-end torque, which helps streetability (and is one reason I don't like the 600cc supersports.) Ride a GSX750R and see if you feel the same, though.

[aschen]

I am not really a bike guy but I love the look of most italian and (european bikes for that matter). When a ducati or aprillia goes by I take notice.....it might be just due to scarcity


I think its also a pavlovian response dreaming of a young jessica alba riding a monster in dark angel.

[Viggen]

Is maintenance on the Italian bikes expensive like the italian cars? Ducati's need the valve adjustments & all that stuff. Any guess on what that costs & how often it needs to be done on a 1098/1198 & also the 848?

[lotuselise7]

I never owned an Italian bike, only Japanese crotch rockets but I'd love to get a Ducati 848!

[IamBatman]

hotttt

the bike I mean... the girl is kinda scary

[Allan Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Viggen

Is maintenance on the Italian bikes expensive like the italian cars? Ducati's need the valve adjustments & all that stuff. Any guess on what that costs & how often it needs to be done on a 1098/1198 & also the 848?

It was suppose to get better with the 1098/1198 and it's a little cheaper than before. With the 999, in Los Angeles, you'd pay about $1,200 for the major service. With the 1098, that would probably run you about $800.

What happened was when the 1098 came out, Ducati advertised slashed maintained to around $150 to $300 (or so). Then, dealers complained and charged regular prices. Ducati then said, they'd can control independent franchises. So, it was like what was the point of advertising lower prices. I think everyone sort of met in the middle (unofficially).

The manual for the 1198 says 700 miles service, then 7,500, and 14,000. Although my dealer is claiming you need an oil change every 3,000 miles because, "you don't want the oil to stay there for 7,500 miles." But since it's not in Ducati's manual, I'm not doing it. Not so much because of the cost but more on the principle. I don't like dealers that much.

I found the article calling Ducati dealer's out on inflated service prices on the 1098:

Keeping them Honest- 1098 Maintenance Costs Exposed what you don't know will cost you - Featured News

[Allan Gibbs]

Originally Posted by lotuselise7

I never owned an Italian bike, only Japanese crotch rockets but I'd love to get a Ducati 848!

Actually, it's the 848EVO now. More power same price.

2011 Ducati 848 EVO Sportbike First Look - Ducati Sportbike First Look - Motorcycle USA