Tour de France - Page 5 - LotusTalk

fitfan · 07-28-2009, 11:08 AM

BBC SPORT | TV/Radio Schedule | Inside Sport | Inside Sport - Mark Cavendish

very insightfull interview with cavendish. - ~20 mins,

the last third goes into a lot of detail about drug testing and control for pro riders, he got tested ~64 times last year alone (yes, more than once a week!), and has submitted whereabouts since age 17, random testing wakeup calls in the middle of the night at his where abouts and 20% of winings go to drug control. he talks about how cycling sacrafices its image in order to allow athletes to race fair and clean. very good interview in all respects, i encouage anyone to take the 20 mins and get to know one of the worlds most amazing athletes today.

it is an insiring interview.

anyways - since we were having a little side conversation about "black eye image" question, mark give a great insider view.

Raising Arizona · 07-28-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitfan

really? why? - he was obviously digging very deep to hang in the alps, contador looked with in himself in the alps. Lance came into the tour not in shape to win the tour, seems like a spectacular result for him, and a testimony to Lances abilities.

like that old saying... you have one book of matches, and you need to be very careful where you burn your matches because when you run out....

I keep asking myself, "was this rig'd"? then I think probably not. I don't think Lance was 100%, so maybe that explains his no-response at times, but still (IMO) something isn't right here.
I guess what comes to mind was two years ago when Michael Rass-Mussen (as Leggit would say), handed Contrador his **** on a paper plate on mtn stage...and the next day he was off the Tour..I think it had to do with possible drugs and he wouldn't test.... so I wonder was Contrador on the gass too?? They get tested alot I know.
I just wanted Lance to do it again so bad.....maybe I'm in denial :P

Next year will be different....I hope.

fitfan · 07-28-2009, 07:23 PM

^^ yes, you are in denial

but thats ok... you have a lot of cycling fans as company.

this year lance did not have a team built around him to hand him the win - understandably as he proved himself "weak" entering the season. so it was pretty clear from the get go....

rigged? well... yes, i mean thats the job of the team to protect and place their selected rider in the G.C. so, yea - astana, by virtue of having the stronest team and probably the best suited rider in contador controlled the tour to hand him the win, and that was plan months before the tour ever started. i dunno if you call that rigged - its a plan, and the strategy and tactics to execute it fall out of that. but if you mean a conspiracy, no. had contador crashed out, or cracked, or lance dominated him in the mountains and prolouge, lance would have been next to take up the GC. but the former didn't happen and the later was not within his ability.

yes, rasmussen cheated and got caught and thats why you never hear about him anymore...

contador was implicated but proven innocent - he has never tested pos., and vinikurov cheated and got suspended (his 2 years are up and i hear he plans to come back clean), and astana was banned from the tour last year for basically that reason (otherwise most everyone agrees that would have been #3 for contador, he is THAT good). watch the video above- they get tested ~10x more than any other athletes in the world, and more comprehensive (very expensive) tests. and random, and they have to account for everywhere they go, record of whereabouts, so you can not "go on vacation to a mystery doctor and get "juiced". only sport in the world that enforces that.

you will notice that no GC's destroyed anyone in the mountains this year.... and no positive tests.... so that tell me - everyone is racing clean, some better or picked days than others, but pay the price later or sit in to recover. notice the days contador picked his efforst and what he did before and after those days... when he sat in, and when he attacked. the effort is all planned out!

Vexige · 07-29-2009, 08:40 AM

At some point of my carrier in exercise physiology and through college I was very involved with elite athletes, so please allow me to give my perspective or insight (based on a lot of years of experience) about PE drugs and sports. I'll try to keep it short, even though, have a lot of fascinating stories to tell, some of them happening to my friends, Olympic Champions and medalists, some observed while competing...
Ben Johnson never apologized for being caught in Seoul: he said something to extent: "I am not going to apologize for cheating, I merely was unlucky one who was caught, everybody else in that final was doing the same" Regardless, of how cynical it may sound, he was right!
Any time I hear that he (she) is tested more then anybody and never was caught (and yet beat one who eventually was caught), I'm pretty skeptical.
• The physiology of human being regardless of a how athletically gifted one is, can not sustain current level of performance in some sports without some kind of PE. When someone is saying about new training technique, or taking Chinese (Indian, Mongolian) supplements, made of ..... I

• Most often the story is not about who's taking what, but who's caught
• PE drugs are being masked by other drugs (diuretics to remove them quickly i.e.) and athletes are being tested for those as well. Removing PE-s from your system is a science even more sophisticated than taking those substances. There're fascinating stories about female athletes placing condoms filled with "clean" urine in vagina, so when the testers come (day or night) they can somehow poke the condom (testers will watch you urinating) and give clean sample.
• Occasionally the athlete is being caught by using PE, which didn't make the black list yet, and subsequently no action is taken, or story becomes public
• National federations on occasion are trying to conceal the evidence and let athletes to compete, especially when those athletes are medal providers Case in point, US track, few years ago, which for extended period of time didn't implement any sanctions to the athletes tested positive while competing in Europe.
No doubt, hunt for PE users intensified tremendously lately and a lot was achieved, but it's very intense race and the hunters are still have long way to go. I'm not even mentioning designer drugs and blood doping, both of which are very hard if not impossible to detect.
The situation is so serious that some sports at some point being considered to be banned from Olympics (Olympic weight lifting, rowing, cycling…)
As to Lance, he's 37, and performing amazingly well for his age. but he won't be able to beat his younger opponents al things being equal

. Expect him to win is naive IMO. Besides, in group cycling the strongest cyclist is far from being a winner, it all depends on how strong the team is, which normally spends more time looking backwards/sideways (to prevent and slow down the opposition) then forward.
Heck, even shooters are taking drugs, so they have steady hand, who would ever think of that?

07-28-2009, 11:08 AM	#81 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,101	BBC SPORT \| TV/Radio Schedule \| Inside Sport \| Inside Sport - Mark Cavendish very insightfull interview with cavendish. - ~20 mins, the last third goes into a lot of detail about drug testing and control for pro riders, he got tested ~64 times last year alone (yes, more than once a week!), and has submitted whereabouts since age 17, random testing wakeup calls in the middle of the night at his where abouts and 20% of winings go to drug control. he talks about how cycling sacrafices its image in order to allow athletes to race fair and clean. very good interview in all respects, i encouage anyone to take the 20 mins and get to know one of the worlds most amazing athletes today. it is an insiring interview. anyways - since we were having a little side conversation about "black eye image" question, mark give a great insider view. __________________ Driving it around! Last edited by fitfan : 07-28-2009 at 11:16 AM.

07-28-2009, 07:23 PM	#83 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,101	^^ yes, you are in denial but thats ok... you have a lot of cycling fans as company. this year lance did not have a team built around him to hand him the win - understandably as he proved himself "weak" entering the season. so it was pretty clear from the get go.... rigged? well... yes, i mean thats the job of the team to protect and place their selected rider in the G.C. so, yea - astana, by virtue of having the stronest team and probably the best suited rider in contador controlled the tour to hand him the win, and that was plan months before the tour ever started. i dunno if you call that rigged - its a plan, and the strategy and tactics to execute it fall out of that. but if you mean a conspiracy, no. had contador crashed out, or cracked, or lance dominated him in the mountains and prolouge, lance would have been next to take up the GC. but the former didn't happen and the later was not within his ability. yes, rasmussen cheated and got caught and thats why you never hear about him anymore... contador was implicated but proven innocent - he has never tested pos., and vinikurov cheated and got suspended (his 2 years are up and i hear he plans to come back clean), and astana was banned from the tour last year for basically that reason (otherwise most everyone agrees that would have been #3 for contador, he is THAT good). watch the video above- they get tested ~10x more than any other athletes in the world, and more comprehensive (very expensive) tests. and random, and they have to account for everywhere they go, record of whereabouts, so you can not "go on vacation to a mystery doctor and get "juiced". only sport in the world that enforces that. you will notice that no GC's destroyed anyone in the mountains this year.... and no positive tests.... so that tell me - everyone is racing clean, some better or picked days than others, but pay the price later or sit in to recover. notice the days contador picked his efforst and what he did before and after those days... when he sat in, and when he attacked. the effort is all planned out! __________________ Driving it around! Last edited by fitfan : 07-28-2009 at 07:35 PM.

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07-29-2009, 08:40 AM	#84 (permalink)
Vexige Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 269	At some point of my carrier in exercise physiology and through college I was very involved with elite athletes, so please allow me to give my perspective or insight (based on a lot of years of experience) about PE drugs and sports. I'll try to keep it short, even though, have a lot of fascinating stories to tell, some of them happening to my friends, Olympic Champions and medalists, some observed while competing... Ben Johnson never apologized for being caught in Seoul: he said something to extent: "I am not going to apologize for cheating, I merely was unlucky one who was caught, everybody else in that final was doing the same" Regardless, of how cynical it may sound, he was right! Any time I hear that he (she) is tested more then anybody and never was caught (and yet beat one who eventually was caught), I'm pretty skeptical. • The physiology of human being regardless of a how athletically gifted one is, can not sustain current level of performance in some sports without some kind of PE. When someone is saying about new training technique, or taking Chinese (Indian, Mongolian) supplements, made of ..... I • Most often the story is not about who's taking what, but who's caught • PE drugs are being masked by other drugs (diuretics to remove them quickly i.e.) and athletes are being tested for those as well. Removing PE-s from your system is a science even more sophisticated than taking those substances. There're fascinating stories about female athletes placing condoms filled with "clean" urine in vagina, so when the testers come (day or night) they can somehow poke the condom (testers will watch you urinating) and give clean sample. • Occasionally the athlete is being caught by using PE, which didn't make the black list yet, and subsequently no action is taken, or story becomes public • National federations on occasion are trying to conceal the evidence and let athletes to compete, especially when those athletes are medal providers Case in point, US track, few years ago, which for extended period of time didn't implement any sanctions to the athletes tested positive while competing in Europe. No doubt, hunt for PE users intensified tremendously lately and a lot was achieved, but it's very intense race and the hunters are still have long way to go. I'm not even mentioning designer drugs and blood doping, both of which are very hard if not impossible to detect. The situation is so serious that some sports at some point being considered to be banned from Olympics (Olympic weight lifting, rowing, cycling…) As to Lance, he's 37, and performing amazingly well for his age. but he won't be able to beat his younger opponents al things being equal . Expect him to win is naive IMO. Besides, in group cycling the strongest cyclist is far from being a winner, it all depends on how strong the team is, which normally spends more time looking backwards/sideways (to prevent and slow down the opposition) then forward. Heck, even shooters are taking drugs, so they have steady hand, who would ever think of that?

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