Typical liberal media response to ICE raid in Mississippi . . .

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by mopho

And it appears you missed the point which is that it is practically impossible to come here legally unless you get married to a citizen or have some sort of white collar job that is in demand here.

And your post #32 is a border control issue and has little to do with why people are coming here and working illegally, those criminal don't come here to work jobs.

If the govt made it easier to become a citizen it would go a long way to solve the problem and make it much easier to protect our borders because people would have have some hope of actually getting in legally and go through the proper channels, right now they don't

I do agree with you that the government should streamline the system. They just never seem to get it done. The present system is badly broken.

Some of those immigrants come here to work a job but then get involved with the gangs because they can make alot more money. Some of the gangs actually formed here in the USA.

Originally Posted by mopho

I think most people that are liberal are proud of the fact, but hate when people like yourself spin it as a slur.
Now instead of continually starting these controversial threads, why don't you take your right wing agenda to some political forum, this is a car forum that is place to make new friends with a common interest, not turn us against each other and create disdain over politics

When I use the word liberal I am not trying to use it as a slur (Calling someone a Nazi would be a slur). I called the Associated Press article liberal. I rarely ever get personal with my posts. I actually have friends from this forum that I see socially. We have opposing political views but don't ever discuss them except on this forum. If people can't discuss controversial issues without taking it personally they can:
a. Put me on their ignore list
b. not read my threads/posts

[necro]

Originally Posted by skelliott2

That or with your ERP systems (SAP to be precise)

Bwahahah! Good one.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

When I use the word liberal I am not trying to use it as a slur (Calling someone a Nazi would be a slur). I called the Associated Press article liberal. I rarely ever get personal with my posts.

Sorry, but given the history of how people on the right use the word, saying "typical Liberal" infers that you have little respect for people with such viewpoints, which is insulting

I do agree with you that the government should streamline the system. They just never seem to get it done. The present system is badly broken.

And there is your problem, it's not the "Liberals", it's not the media, and it is not entirely the illegal immigrants, it's our govt, which has been ruled by the Republicans for quite some time now, so perhaps you should be pointing the finger at your own.

Some of those immigrants come here to work a job but then get involved with the gangs because they can make alot more money. Some of the gangs actually formed here in the USA.

Key word is some. Some Americans get into gangs and become criminals too.



Now I am really not interested in wasting my day going back and fourth on this, I only wanted to note that Fishguy is right and that most people who complain about illegal immigration really don't have a clue about how difficult it is to come here legally.



.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by mopho

Sorry, but given the history of how people on the right use the word, saying "typical Liberal" infers that you have little respect for people with such viewpoints, which is insulting




And there is your problem, it's not the "Liberals", it's not the media, and it is not entirely the illegal immigrants, it's our govt, which has been ruled by the Republicans for quite some time now, so perhaps you should be pointing the finger at your own.



Key word is some. Some Americans get into gangs and become criminals too.



Now I am really not interested in wasting my day going back and fourth on this, I only wanted to note that Fishguy is right and that most people who complain about illegal immigration really don't have a clue about how difficult it is to come here legally.



.

i didnt see anyone said it was "easy." just that there are legal ways of doing it.
how did all the other immigrants come her LEGALLY?
i dont recall any stories of my grandfather hiding out in churches and making political stands dodging the law.
he did it LEGALLY.
thats the difference.

[skelliott2]

Originally Posted by mopho

And it appears you missed the point which is that it is practically impossible to come here legally unless you get married to a citizen or have some sort of white collar job that is in demand here.

And your post #32 is a border control issue and has little to do with why people are coming here and working illegally, those criminal don't come here to work jobs.

If the govt made it easier to become a citizen it would go a long way to solve the problem and make it much easier to protect our borders because people would have have some hope of actually getting in legally and go through the proper channels, right now they don't




I think most people that are liberal are proud of the fact, but hate when people like yourself spin it as a slur.
Now instead of continually starting these controversial threads, why don't you take your right wing agenda to some political forum, this is a car forum that is place to make new friends with a common interest, not turn us against each other and create disdain over politics

I assume you meant green card and not citizen. I think the problem is that most folks coming to the States now do not want to be Citizens. They just want the green card.

In the past (before the 90's or so) most people that were coming to the States wanted to become citizens. They were leaving their country to come to the land of opportunity and create roots here. Their lives and fortunes were cast with the US and they wanted to be citizens so that they could vote and participate beyond the economics. Don't get me wrong, they wanted to earn a lot of money and live the American dream as well...but they were here to stay.

Immigrants that are coming to the US to stay and lay down roots, I have no problem with. I don't believe that is what we are seeing today. I work in IT and many of my friends have green cards, but I know of very few that want to be citizens of the US. They want the money, but not anything else. FWIW.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by evomind

i didnt see anyone said it was "easy." just that there are legal ways of doing it.
how did all the other immigrants come her LEGALLY?
i dont recall any stories of my grandfather hiding out in churches and making political stands dodging the law.
he did it LEGALLY.
thats the difference.

Yes, there are legal ways (if you marry or have a white collar skill set), but for most people it is near impossible, that is the point. If they have little to no hope of getting in legally, it leaves them little choice.

Like I said, if it was so difficult for my wife, who had a good job and good lawyers behind her, what makes you think that someone with nothing stands a chance?

What does your grandfather have to do with how things are done now? My great granparents came in legally too, and all they had to do was get off a boat and fill out some paperwork at Ellis Island.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by skelliott2

I assume you meant green card and not citizen. I think the problem is that most folks coming to the States now do not want to be Citizens. They just want the green card.

In the past (before the 90's or so) most people that were coming to the States wanted to become citizens. They were leaving their country to come to the land of opportunity and create roots here. Their lives and fortunes were cast with the US and they wanted to be citizens so that they could vote and participate beyond the economics. Don't get me wrong, they wanted to earn a lot of money and live the American dream as well...but they were here to stay.

Immigrants that are coming to the US to stay and lay down roots, I have no problem with. I don't believe that is what we are seeing today. I work in IT and many of my friends have green cards, but I know of very few that want to be citizens of the US. They want the money, but not anything else. FWIW.

Yes, green card, but that is the path to citizenship. And the Irony is that the people that are coming here illegally are the ones more likely to put down "roots" than the people that the govt is giving the green cards to

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by mopho

Yes, there are legal ways (if you marry or have a white collar skill set), but for most people it is near impossible, that is the point. If they have little to no hope of getting in legally, it leaves them little choice.

OK I have to call shenanigans there. To say that they "had little choice" but to break the law is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I know, that's not much of a legal defense. Everybody has all the choice in the world whether to break the law or not. This all comes back to personal responsibility and accountability, things which are conspicuously absent in today's world. Try the old "I had no choice." next time you get pulled over. I'd guess you'll end up with a ticket and a tonguelashing.

[LBC111]

I'm sorry, but we are squabbling over illegal, or undocumented (whatever) immigrants "taking away" under-minimum-wage jobs and getting treatment for cuts and broken bones when at the same time we are spending upwards of one TRILLION dollars, or $450,000,000 per day, and thousands of lives, for the illegal occupation of Iraq based on criminal actions of our "Commander in Chief"??? Really people?? Are we really that easily distracted by much lesser issues and not willing to look at what tremendous damage these lunatics in office have done to our country over the past 8 years?

[mopho]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

OK I have to call shenanigans there. To say that they "had little choice" but to break the law is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I know, that's not much of a legal defense. Everybody has all the choice in the world whether to break the law or not. This all comes back to personal responsibility and accountability, things which are conspicuously absent in today's world. Try the old "I had no choice." next time you get pulled over. I'd guess you'll end up with a ticket and a tonguelashing.

You missed the point completely

[Monsi]

Originally Posted by LBC111

I'm sorry, but we are squabbling over illegal, or undocumented (whatever) immigrants "taking away" under-minimum-wage jobs and getting treatment for cuts and broken bones when at the same time we are spending upwards of one TRILLION dollars, or $450,000,000 per day, and thousands of lives, for the illegal occupation of Iraq based on criminal actions of our "Commander in Chief"??? Really people?? Are we really that easily distracted by much lesser issues and not willing to look at what tremendous damage these lunatics in office have done to our country over the past 8 years?

the second iraq war is legal because of the first one... not gonna get into it, but its because of the resolutions passed after the first war, I dont like it either but its a bit off topic

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by evomind

i didnt see anyone said it was "easy." just that there are legal ways of doing it.
how did all the other immigrants come her LEGALLY?
i dont recall any stories of my grandfather hiding out in churches and making political stands dodging the law.
he did it LEGALLY.
thats the difference.

laws were different back then,................then the country wasnt so crowded.
my grandparents came here from another country also; they had to hide at the border of the country they were leaving to make the crossing.
i.e. were not allowed to leave that country.
they came here with nothing, and di very wel for themselves and their familes because there was opportunity if they worked hard.
i dont think you really understand evo.

nowadays, for a mexican to immigrate here leagally, you need to be married to a US citizen,............thats it.
no other way that i know of from mexico.

I know what i am talking about on this one, trust me.

[Brennon]

Originally Posted by LBC111

I'm sorry, but we are squabbling over illegal, or undocumented (whatever) immigrants "taking away" under-minimum-wage jobs and getting treatment for cuts and broken bones when at the same time we are spending upwards of one TRILLION dollars, or $450,000,000 per day, and thousands of lives, for the illegal occupation of Iraq based on criminal actions of our "Commander in Chief"??? Really people?? Are we really that easily distracted by much lesser issues and not willing to look at what tremendous damage these lunatics in office have done to our country over the past 8 years?

I think the war in Iraq is a hugely bad decision in all aspects (particularly economically), but I also don't like the funding of illegal immigrants.

Then again, I also don't like public schools, FEMA, social security, department of energy, department of education, etc. etc. I'm usually the odd man out in political conversations since I tend to disagree with every political party.

[milehitom]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

...You'll notice that the word Illegal is conspicuously absent in the story headline.
"Feds: Immigrant Raid at Mississippi Plant Largest in U.S. History"

They're not "illegal" yet...they are more correctly "suspected illegal immigrants." They aren't guilty until proven innocent...that's why "illegal" is a bad word to use unqualified in a headline.

Tom

[def]

It's amazing to see how many illegals walk into san deigo hospitals and get FREE treatment. The hospitals (well many of them) CANNOT turn anyone away. Many flee Mexico to get "better" treatment in the US.

I think this needs to be addressed before them working here: getting free healthcare. That stuff is crazy expensive

[IXLR8]

Originally Posted by ezmoney

Immigration isn't a problem. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is a very big problem.

What other country in the world allows its borders to be over run?
What other government in the world overlooks illegal immigration thus allowing invasion?

Corporate America wants cheap labor thus wants illegal immigration. This effectively lowers the wages for people who are here legally while raising taxes for the working middle class at the same time. Paying more taxes to support Illegals does two things.
Firstly it makes the poor a little bit less poor. Secondly, it makes the middle class a little bit more poor. At some point both classes will be on an even level.
Does this sound like socialism yet?

Essentially what we have going on here is slave labor. We tried that once already and a civil war was fought. Shortly thereafter slavery was abolished.
The Mexican version of the NAACP is well on its way.
It appears that we haven't learned our lesson.

In addition, one poster wrote that Americans won't do the jobs that are given to Mexicans.
By the same token, corporate America does not want to pay what the jobs are worth, hence , our government has chosen to overlook illegal immigration in favor of corporate America which is the true entity that runs this country.

Meanwhile the sheeple sit silently and do nothing.

If I've offended anyone, I offer my apologies. Twas not my intention.

[pla_time]

Originally Posted by IXLR8

What other country in the world allows its borders to be over run?
What other government in the world overlooks illegal immigration thus allowing invasion?

Actually, many countries have illegal immigration problems - -they are not limited to the USA (e.g., Greece has Albanians, China gets them from North Korea, Chili gets them from Peru and Bolivia, India gets them from Bangladesh, South Africa has seen a huge influx from Zimbabwe, etc. etc.)

This is not a problem that is unique to the USA. Whenever there are abject living conditions in one country and better conditions in another (that is within reach), the logical thing to do is to move. [If it was you, would you rather die of starvation, become an armed robber, sell your child into prostitution, or cross over a border illegally to find work? For some, I suspect that these are pretty much the choices that one might have.]

Many Europeans tried to escape Nazi Germany prior to the second world war. Because of immigration quotas, most were not allowed into the USA or other countries. So, these people stayed and were killed . . . . But hey, at least they didn't become illegal immigrants taking 'jobs' away from Americans.

Many illegal immigrants are victims of poverty -- surely we cannot solve the world's problems, but let's not paint them as something they aren't [i.e., just calling them criminals because they crossed the border illegally.] Understanding that the problem is complex is the first step towards solving it.

[Brennon]

Mexico has a problem with illegal immigration from further south too. If caught, those illegal immigrants tend to get shot.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by mopho

Yes, there are legal ways (if you marry or have a white collar skill set), but for most people it is near impossible, that is the point. If they have little to no hope of getting in legally, it leaves them little choice.

Like I said, if it was so difficult for my wife, who had a good job and good lawyers behind her, what makes you think that someone with nothing stands a chance?

What does your grandfather have to do with how things are done now? My great granparents came in legally too, and all they had to do was get off a boat and fill out some paperwork at Ellis Island.

i suppose the point, in case you missed it, was that just because its hard doesnt mean its ok to break the laws.
sorry, those people who do that shouldnt complain when they get busted by INS and sent back to wherever they came from.
if people dont like the laws there are channels to change laws legally.
thats how it works. not always perfect, but thats how it is.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by IXLR8

What other country in the world allows its borders to be over run?
What other government in the world overlooks illegal immigration thus allowing invasion?

Corporate America wants cheap labor thus wants illegal immigration. This effectively lowers the wages for people who are here legally while raising taxes for the working middle class at the same time. Paying more taxes to support Illegals does two things.
Firstly it makes the poor a little bit less poor. Secondly, it makes the middle class a little bit more poor. At some point both classes will be on an even level.
Does this sound like socialism yet?

Essentially what we have going on here is slave labor. We tried that once already and a civil war was fought. Shortly thereafter slavery was abolished.
The Mexican version of the NAACP is well on its way.
It appears that we haven't learned our lesson.

In addition, one poster wrote that Americans won't do the jobs that are given to Mexicans.
By the same token, corporate America does not want to pay what the jobs are worth, hence , our government has chosen to overlook illegal immigration in favor of corporate America which is the true entity that runs this country.

Meanwhile the sheeple sit silently and do nothing.

If I've offended anyone, I offer my apologies. Twas not my intention.

not for nothing, but the civil war wasnt fought to end slavery. ending slavery was a bi-product of other issues. again, the root problems that led to the civil war revolved around economics.