17s/18s VS. 16s/17s Elise - LotusTalk

loyalluck · 11-02-2009, 08:28 AM

Hi all,

Really suffering now with new wheels/tyres since i wrecked my standard 5 spoke elise wheels.

So the question is any pros cons for 17/18 setup?

i am thinking of:
Kumho V70
205 40 17 front
245 35 18 rear

And what alloys to go for? The only "more or less" alternative i've found are the Team Dynamics.

Really wanted the Dymag, but the Magnesium one's(they don't do in 18's), and the carbon one's, despite the price, don't really do 17'(delivery time 3+ month)...

Help appreciated.

Cheers,
Ilya

Aedo · 11-02-2009, 11:35 PM

What standard 5 spoke wheels did you have? Or do you mean the standard six spoke on the Elise S?

loyalluck · 11-03-2009, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aedo

What standard 5 spoke wheels did you have? Or do you mean the standard six spoke on the Elise S?

oops, my bad. You are correct its "Rimstock 6-spoke"

Image:Elise2000silver.jpg - SELOC TechWiki

ewalberg · 11-04-2009, 04:54 PM

yeah larger diameter rims are inherently heavier for equal strength and it's not just their static weight there is a separate component of energy associated with spinning them and that's also worse. A 16" rim can actually weight MORE than a 17" rims and will take the same amount of energy or less to get it up to speed. Plus you have less sidewall so the ride will be even worse. If you're decently in-tune with your cars performance it's quite possible that you'll actually be able to feel that you car is slower accelerating.

Larger rims i would argue are the anti-thesis of the lotus philosophy... the sport pack cars should have been delivered with 15/16's... and leave the 16/17's on the base and touring cars. Even 15's all around would be great but there's no proper tire sizes for 15" rimmed rears.

loyalluck · 11-04-2009, 11:49 PM

Theoretically you are correct.

In my case, i have S version(n/a) and installing on it komotech's SC, which will give appx +100hp, so i guess it will be compensated there.

Keep in mind, that at read its 35 - and not 45, so in the end its not THAT bigger.

however, i just love to have a feeling that the ride has 18s at the rear end. stupid me.

fpitas · 11-05-2009, 09:23 AM

To maintain the handling you'll have to seriously restrict body roll with 17/18s. Shorter sidewall tires may give better transient response, but do not tolerate being cambered like taller sidewall tires do.

loyalluck · 11-06-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpitas

To maintain the handling you'll have to seriously restrict body roll with 17/18s. Shorter sidewall tires may give better transient response, but do not tolerate being cambered like taller sidewall tires do.

can you explain please, didnt get it.

ewalberg · 11-09-2009, 05:45 PM

A super charger wont help you keep from bending a rim on a pot hole.

Increasing camber (tipping of the top of the tire inward) is one of the ways you see most cars improve handling because it lines up the tire better with the road during cornering. That's the first thing many people do on the front wheels to reduce understeer.

The principle implies that the sidewalls are flexing so that you still have full contact patch on the ground when you're going straight, and sidewall flex is part of how the car maintains tire contact through a variety of body/tire angles to the ground. The less sidewall the less compliant the tire can be to match the ground (whether it's matching bumps or angle difference between the tire and ground for what-ever reason), the narrower the window of traction you have (or better stated the wider the variation the car will have), the less predictable your car is going to be at the limit. The reality is the car should have been delivered with 15/16's so going with 17/18' is really quite a difference... maybe not from stock, but from what it could be... and to keep the ride compliant on big rimmed cars what they do is make the sidwall thinner which makes it all the more prone to damage (the tire and rim). Don't get me wrong, i'm sure people have set-up larger rims and have really fast cars... it's just not going to be nearly as plug and play.

oh, don't forget that not to mention the rims, the tires cost a fair bit more for 17/18's than 16/17's, and tires for 15/16's are correspondingly cheaper than for 16/17's.

11-02-2009, 08:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
loyalluck Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 29	17s/18s VS. 16s/17s Elise Hi all, Really suffering now with new wheels/tyres since i wrecked my standard 5 spoke elise wheels. So the question is any pros cons for 17/18 setup? i am thinking of: Kumho V70 205 40 17 front 245 35 18 rear And what alloys to go for? The only "more or less" alternative i've found are the Team Dynamics. Really wanted the Dymag, but the Magnesium one's(they don't do in 18's), and the carbon one's, despite the price, don't really do 17'(delivery time 3+ month)... Help appreciated. Cheers, Ilya

11-04-2009, 04:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
ewalberg Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 714	yeah larger diameter rims are inherently heavier for equal strength and it's not just their static weight there is a separate component of energy associated with spinning them and that's also worse. A 16" rim can actually weight MORE than a 17" rims and will take the same amount of energy or less to get it up to speed. Plus you have less sidewall so the ride will be even worse. If you're decently in-tune with your cars performance it's quite possible that you'll actually be able to feel that you car is slower accelerating. Larger rims i would argue are the anti-thesis of the lotus philosophy... the sport pack cars should have been delivered with 15/16's... and leave the 16/17's on the base and touring cars. Even 15's all around would be great but there's no proper tire sizes for 15" rimmed rears. __________________ 2006 Aspen White Elise. Hard top (never left it's shipping box), LSS, LSD, Traction control, Red leather.

11-05-2009, 09:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
fpitas User, Registered Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 1,827	To maintain the handling you'll have to seriously restrict body roll with 17/18s. Shorter sidewall tires may give better transient response, but do not tolerate being cambered like taller sidewall tires do. __________________ Francis 2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper 2000 Black Integra Type R: - 213,000 miles...running again!

11-09-2009, 05:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
ewalberg Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 714	A super charger wont help you keep from bending a rim on a pot hole. Increasing camber (tipping of the top of the tire inward) is one of the ways you see most cars improve handling because it lines up the tire better with the road during cornering. That's the first thing many people do on the front wheels to reduce understeer. The principle implies that the sidewalls are flexing so that you still have full contact patch on the ground when you're going straight, and sidewall flex is part of how the car maintains tire contact through a variety of body/tire angles to the ground. The less sidewall the less compliant the tire can be to match the ground (whether it's matching bumps or angle difference between the tire and ground for what-ever reason), the narrower the window of traction you have (or better stated the wider the variation the car will have), the less predictable your car is going to be at the limit. The reality is the car should have been delivered with 15/16's so going with 17/18' is really quite a difference... maybe not from stock, but from what it could be... and to keep the ride compliant on big rimmed cars what they do is make the sidwall thinner which makes it all the more prone to damage (the tire and rim). Don't get me wrong, i'm sure people have set-up larger rims and have really fast cars... it's just not going to be nearly as plug and play. oh, don't forget that not to mention the rims, the tires cost a fair bit more for 17/18's than 16/17's, and tires for 15/16's are correspondingly cheaper than for 16/17's. __________________ 2006 Aspen White Elise. Hard top (never left it's shipping box), LSS, LSD, Traction control, Red leather.

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11-02-2009, 11:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Aedo anglophile in exile Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 2,561 Images: 88	What standard 5 spoke wheels did you have? Or do you mean the standard six spoke on the Elise S?

11-04-2009, 11:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
loyalluck Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 29	Theoretically you are correct. In my case, i have S version(n/a) and installing on it komotech's SC, which will give appx +100hp, so i guess it will be compensated there. Keep in mind, that at read its 35 - and not 45, so in the end its not THAT bigger. however, i just love to have a feeling that the ride has 18s at the rear end. stupid me.

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