17s/18s VS. 16s/17s Elise

[loyalluck]

Hi all,

Really suffering now with new wheels/tyres since i wrecked my standard 5 spoke elise wheels.

So the question is any pros cons for 17/18 setup?

i am thinking of:
Kumho V70
205 40 17 front
245 35 18 rear

And what alloys to go for? The only "more or less" alternative i've found are the Team Dynamics.

Really wanted the Dymag, but the Magnesium one's(they don't do in 18's), and the carbon one's, despite the price, don't really do 17'(delivery time 3+ month)...

Help appreciated.

Cheers,
Ilya

[Aedo]

What standard 5 spoke wheels did you have? Or do you mean the standard six spoke on the Elise S?

[loyalluck]

Originally Posted by Aedo

What standard 5 spoke wheels did you have? Or do you mean the standard six spoke on the Elise S?

oops, my bad. You are correct its "Rimstock 6-spoke"

Image:Elise2000silver.jpg - SELOC TechWiki

[ewalberg]

yeah larger diameter rims are inherently heavier for equal strength and it's not just their static weight there is a separate component of energy associated with spinning them and that's also worse. A 16" rim can actually weight MORE than a 17" rims and will take the same amount of energy or less to get it up to speed. Plus you have less sidewall so the ride will be even worse. If you're decently in-tune with your cars performance it's quite possible that you'll actually be able to feel that you car is slower accelerating.

Larger rims i would argue are the anti-thesis of the lotus philosophy... the sport pack cars should have been delivered with 15/16's... and leave the 16/17's on the base and touring cars. Even 15's all around would be great but there's no proper tire sizes for 15" rimmed rears.

[loyalluck]

Theoretically you are correct.

In my case, i have S version(n/a) and installing on it komotech's SC, which will give appx +100hp, so i guess it will be compensated there.

Keep in mind, that at read its 35 - and not 45, so in the end its not THAT bigger.

however, i just love to have a feeling that the ride has 18s at the rear end. stupid me.

[fpitas]

To maintain the handling you'll have to seriously restrict body roll with 17/18s. Shorter sidewall tires may give better transient response, but do not tolerate being cambered like taller sidewall tires do.

[loyalluck]

Originally Posted by fpitas

To maintain the handling you'll have to seriously restrict body roll with 17/18s. Shorter sidewall tires may give better transient response, but do not tolerate being cambered like taller sidewall tires do.

can you explain please, didnt get it.

[ewalberg]

A super charger wont help you keep from bending a rim on a pot hole.

Increasing camber (tipping of the top of the tire inward) is one of the ways you see most cars improve handling because it lines up the tire better with the road during cornering. That's the first thing many people do on the front wheels to reduce understeer.

The principle implies that the sidewalls are flexing so that you still have full contact patch on the ground when you're going straight, and sidewall flex is part of how the car maintains tire contact through a variety of body/tire angles to the ground. The less sidewall the less compliant the tire can be to match the ground (whether it's matching bumps or angle difference between the tire and ground for what-ever reason), the narrower the window of traction you have (or better stated the wider the variation the car will have), the less predictable your car is going to be at the limit. The reality is the car should have been delivered with 15/16's so going with 17/18' is really quite a difference... maybe not from stock, but from what it could be... and to keep the ride compliant on big rimmed cars what they do is make the sidwall thinner which makes it all the more prone to damage (the tire and rim). Don't get me wrong, i'm sure people have set-up larger rims and have really fast cars... it's just not going to be nearly as plug and play.

oh, don't forget that not to mention the rims, the tires cost a fair bit more for 17/18's than 16/17's, and tires for 15/16's are correspondingly cheaper than for 16/17's.

[pyro40t]

What companies offer 17/18 set-up that fit our cars?

[holmz]

Originally Posted by loyalluck

can you explain please, didnt get it.

The alignment is more critical with a lower profile.
As the body rolls, bump steer, etc, the tire will not be flat on the ground.
A higher profile compensates at the sidewall.

Also small bumps etc get soaked up by a higher sidewall.

I doubt that the supercharger will help your braking.

You would only go to 17 and 18 to look cool, but at 5% would know that it isn't a performance set up.
I have heard through rumor that one of the closest owners to me put the Dymag on, but the offsets were all off and it was dismal. I looked into their product quite a bit for an off road rim, but they only do 18"+.

[pyro40t]

But what is wrong with riding around on the street with a 17/18 set-up and then when going to the track moving back to 16/17 or 15/16? If the heights of the wheels tires were the same there wouldn't be any difference aside from sidewall flex between the set-ups.

[R T]

Originally Posted by pyro40t

What companies offer 17/18 set-up that fit our cars?

Work Wheels

[pyro40t]

Thanks I just checked their site....they have a 17x7 and 18x7.5 to fit our cars... if this enough of a stagger?

[R T]

.... I think mine are 7's and 8's

[loyalluck]

Looks sweet!!! Actually they don't look that huge as i was expecting, which good.

[holmz]

Originally Posted by loyalluck

Looks sweet!!! Actually they don't look that huge as i was expecting, which good.

Yeah but actually probably are as big as you think.
So acceleration, braking, and corning on all but the smoothest of roads would likely all be worse.
So while the look may be different, it might not really be better.

[fpitas]

Originally Posted by holmz

The alignment is more critical with a lower profile.
As the body rolls, bump steer, etc, the tire will not be flat on the ground.
A higher profile compensates at the sidewall.

Also small bumps etc get soaked up by a higher sidewall.

Yep. It's all a compromise, you might potentially get better transient response and ultimate handling on smooth surfaces with the lower profile tires, but be prepared to tweak the suspension. Lotus designed the suspension for the tires that are on the car, if you go jacking major things around like tire profile, you're on your own.

[brgelise]

Anyone that puts 17/18's on an Elise is into bling and just doesn't understand physics, handling, inertia, weight, etc. Dumb choice!!! Is that clear enough! or do you want anyone with knowledge about vehicle dynamics to laugh as they walk by your ride?

[apexdc]

I am running normal LSS sizes with Toyo 888's, but am thinking about getting a dedicated set of track wheels. I won't want wider than stock tires, but what would be a hot tip in a 15/16 size?

Thanks,

[pyro40t]

My idea is to daily drive on 17/18 and track with the stock LSS wheels...This being said....I can almost guarantee that a Lotus with 17/18 rims will be more then capable of handing day to day driving better then 95% of the cars that are around it. And then magically transform into the star it is at the track with the stock LSS rims and tire combination.