Best Brake Pads?

[Rennstore]

page 1 question was about Hawks and 'is there a better choice' -
I'll go on record as not a fan of those pads.......

[elptex]

Alrighty, what we seem to have here is a differing angle of approach. We are both speaking of the same principle but applying in differing time intervals. You are talking about applying this at the limit of zero (coming to a complete stop; disappating all energy). In my opinion, however, applying these physics at the limit of zero doesn't equate to real world application. Sure, there are plenty of times when we have to shed all the energy and come to 0 mph. However, in a sport driving situation, specifically on a track, that isn't the case. Realistically, we're applying these physics in the manner that I spoke of: Short periods of heavy braking. So yes, take the limit at zero and we're talking about the same amount of dissappated energy via heat from differing materials, but really, is that what matters? In my opinion, no. What matters is how much heat is generated during the time in which you are braking. In which, as we have both demonstrated, one pad does have the ability to generate more heat in a lesser amount of time.

[sl8anic]

Anyone else using EBC Yellow 4xxxx?

[xtn]

Originally Posted by elptex

Alrighty, what we seem to have here is a differing angle of approach. We are both speaking of the same principle but applying in differing time intervals. You are talking about applying this at the limit of zero (coming to a complete stop; disappating all energy). In my opinion, however, applying these physics at the limit of zero doesn't equate to real world application. Sure, there are plenty of times when we have to shed all the energy and come to 0 mph. However, in a sport driving situation, specifically on a track, that isn't the case. Realistically, we're applying these physics in the manner that I spoke of: Short periods of heavy braking. So yes, take the limit at zero and we're talking about the same amount of dissappated energy via heat from differing materials, but really, is that what matters? In my opinion, no. What matters is how much heat is generated during the time in which you are braking. In which, as we have both demonstrated, one pad does have the ability to generate more heat in a lesser amount of time.

Well multiple decellerations still, cumulatively, have a finite, predictable, specific number of joules to be converted. Either brake pad will experience the same total heat production in one stop, or during a whole race, or over the life of the car.

But what the heck, I think we're close enough to stop this interesting fight. Handshake.

xtn

[elptex]

Cheers!

[insane]

awww.... damn! I showed up too late! (math geek)

[LastToy]

Originally Posted by Pileggio

I just put Porterfield R4-S pad front and rear at the same time, installing new front rotors from Sector111 just prior to a track day. Under heavy braking, they would fade... I almost went through a few corners and almost hit one car (Porsche GT3) coming into the corkscrew! During the 4th session, they started biting down better, but then they started 'grabbing' intermittently. I don't know if it was ABS or the pads/rotors themselves. I only had 75 miles on them before the track day at Laguna Seca, so maybe it's a seating issue? Everyone seems to be pleased with them, so I guess I'll keep running them and hopefully it sorts itself out.

Anyone else experience this with this set up?

Question for you on the sector111 rotors (I'm going to need a new set soon). I've noticed that the rotor rings have large vanes. I also noticed that the thickness of the rotor surface is thinner as a result. I was wondering of the pros/cons of better cooling/less heat-sinking (less iron to absorb heat). Can it cool enough (fast enough) to compensate for less heat sinking potential. I'm not implying anything... just wondering given your comment about R4s not performing well (by the way, I've used both R4 and R4-s on a heavier car on the track and am not impressed... but should still perform better than stock Elise pads).

I had this issue w/ my Alcon setup on my previous car (Audi). One set of rotors had larger rotor ring (larger annulus and smaller diameter hat / annulus was MORE than large enough to cover the pad contact area) and the second set had smaller annulus and larger rotor hat (lighter / still large enough to cover the pad surface area). Given that I didn't have brake ducting to take full advantage of these rotors' large and many directional vanes, the smaller annulus set (less heat-sink) performed worse and I ended up wrapping them at the track (even though they were fully floating rotors... same magnitude used on race cars). Maybe that explains what you've experienced.

Also, new pads that are not fully bedded/seated into rotors will perform significantly worse. Like you said, maybe this was the issue.

My primary question is, can those Sector111 rotors handle the heat-sinking requirement of hard track duty w/o the help of additional brake ducting. Thank you.

[edaddy]

After reading all the posts on "best brake pads", I went with Ferodo for street driving. I'm not sure if I will be installing them this weekend or if I can get another couple of months and another 5K out of the origional set. As soon as I have some experience with them, I'll let you know.

[Flat Spin]

To add to the original question... I just replaced my front rotors with EBC and all pads with EBC Green Stuff. I've put on about 1,000 miles. The Pads are noisy and they don't seem to stop as good as the Brembo's that were on there when I bought the car. They don't produce nearly as much dust but I doubt I'll use the EBC's again. I'll be looking for advice soon.

[codymac]

Originally Posted by sl8anic

Anyone else using EBC Yellow 4xxxx?

Jeff at JAE likes them and so does one of the fastest locals - EBCs generally evoke a love/hate response.

Originally Posted by Flat Spin

To add to the original question... I just replaced my front rotors with EBC and all pads with EBC Green Stuff. I've put on about 1,000 miles. The Pads are noisy and they don't seem to stop as good as the Brembo's that were on there when I bought the car. They don't produce nearly as much dust but I doubt I'll use the EBC's again. I'll be looking for advice soon.

Search the 'net for info on EBC Greens - suffice it to say, that anyone enthusiast enough to be willing to go for an aftermarket pad will generally have a very low opinion of them.

[insane]

Originally Posted by Flat Spin

....They don't produce nearly as much dust....

Dust?? How about chunks?!!

[sl8anic]

So why the love/hate? I've never used EBC stuff on anything else before so I'm just curious

Since "yellow" compound is different it'd be tricky to compare to greens w/out first-hand experience.

Originally Posted by codymac

Jeff at JAE likes them and so does one of the fastest locals - EBCs generally evoke a love/hate response.



Search the 'net for info on EBC Greens - suffice it to say, that anyone enthusiast enough to be willing to go for an aftermarket pad will generally have a very low opinion of them.

[Rennstore]

Ferodo is pretty decent.

Overall: Why do people mess around.......?
Frankly - use the Pagids, pretty much the best one can find -

[codymac]

Originally Posted by sl8anic

So why the love/hate? I've never used EBC stuff on anything else before so I'm just curious

Since "yellow" compound is different it'd be tricky to compare to greens w/out first-hand experience.

No firsthand experience aside from the Greens (freebies from a friend), so I dunno. I've just observed that people seem to have strong opinions - not much of a bell curve.

Always had a decent experience with their bike stuff.

Originally Posted by Rennstore

Ferodo is pretty decent.

Overall: Why do people mess around.......?
Frankly - use the Pagids, pretty much the best one can find -

Money back guarantee, right?

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by Rennstore

Overall: Why do people mess around.......?
Frankly - use the Pagids, pretty much the best one can find -

Because to this day I still don't know which Pagid I need to get without looking through 15 websites, 6 dictionaries, and 7 encylopedias. Unless they have finally made it simple i.e.

Lotus Elise/Exige pt. #XXXXXX F/XXXXXXX R(street pad)
or
Lotus Elise/Exige pt. #XXXXXX /XXXXXXX R(race/track pad)

I am no interested. Last time I looked in this thread people were still in the trial and error/shaving here an there mode. No thanks . . .

[ace10]

Originally Posted by mark.r

Because to this day I still don't know which Pagid I need to get without looking through 15 websites, 6 dictionaries, and 7 encylopedias. Unless they have finally made it simple i.e.

Lotus Elise/Exige pt. #XXXXXX F/XXXXXXX R(street pad)
or
Lotus Elise/Exige pt. #XXXXXX /XXXXXXX R(race/track pad)

I am no interested. Last time I looked in this thread people were still in the trial and error/shaving here an there mode. No thanks . . .

that's exactly the problem with these brake discussions. even on a thread dedicated to the pagid 4-2, you've got incorrect/incomplete information being tossed around about part numbers and compounds. it friggin maddening.

all i know is that what i have sitting on my workbench at home are the proper sizes. since i don't have them in front of me, i'm not going to make a definitive statement. i will be happy to post the specs later.

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by ace10

that's exactly the problem with these brake discussions. even on a thread dedicated to the pagid 4-2, you've got incorrect/incomplete information being tossed around about part numbers and compounds. it friggin maddening.

all i know is that what i have sitting on my workbench at home are the proper sizes. since i don't have them in front of me, i'm not going to make a definitive statement. i will be happy to post the specs later.

I don't doubt that Pagid makes a great pad I would love to run them. But I am not going to be doing any "mods" or jimmy rigging to my bads to "make" them fit. I others want to do that, be my guess. Ace, you say you have the correct part #, feel free to post it. As I am sure someone else does have it as well. But as I mentioned in the previous post, the last time I was in the the "Pagid" thread there 15 people were swearing that their set up was the right one. Well, that tells me there is a problem and it dictates that I will go to another company that has their sh*t right.

[CalBears92]

Pagid RS42 (blue track pad) as opposed to (darker blue sport pad)

Front: U1587
Rear: U1682

Drop in replacement. Yes, I just had it done 2 weeks ago.

If you go with a pure track pad, (Black RS14), then the front pad's part number is different. There lies the confusion.

I'll let those who have RS14 chime in with the correct front pad part number.

One track day so far, 500 street miles -- at this point, I don't think I'll try anything else (other than maybe the Pagid RS14).

Yes, they SOMETIMES squeek on the street.

[rnr]

Originally Posted by CalBears92

Pagid RS42 (blue track pad) as opposed to (darker blue sport pad)

Front: U1587
Rear: U1682

+1 this is the setup I have as well.
The rear pads are a perfect replacement for stock
The front pads fit the stock calipers perfectly but have a slightly smaller swept area.

[mark.r]

Originally Posted by CalBears92

Pagid RS42 (blue track pad) as opposed to (darker blue sport pad)

Front: U1587
Rear: U1682

Drop in replacement. Yes, I just had it done 2 weeks ago.

If you go with a pure track pad, (Black RS14), then the front pad's part number is different. There lies the confusion.

I'll let those who have RS14 chime in with the correct front pad part number.

One track day so far, 500 street miles -- at this point, I don't think I'll try anything else (other than maybe the Pagid RS14).

Yes, they SOMETIMES squeek on the street.

I assume you went with the RS42 Blue Track Pad, which has a track biased but is streetable? Versus the Darker Blue which is much more street biased? I am not really interested in the RS14, perhaps a bit to track for my needs.

This is good to know. I eventually just put Hawks on this past time because I could find anything else I liked. They seem alright but I have notice that I am having trouble getting heat into them on the track . . . either that or the stock Lotus pads stop better and that I can't imagine.