Brake fluid question - LotusTalk

saudio · 06-22-2009, 08:09 AM

I just called Criswell parts (Gaithersburg Lotus Dealer) asking about the proper brake fluid to use when I do a flush on my 2005 Elise. I was told that any DOT 4 fluid was fine.

To get a more specific recommendation, I called Euroclassic parts (Richmond Lotus Dealer) and asked the same question. I was told that any DOT 3 fluid was fine.

Could somebody tell me the correct answer, and perhaps recommend a brand that is commonly available?

Thanks

fpitas · 06-22-2009, 08:19 AM

DOT 4 is a "better" fluid, in that it has higher boiling points than DOT 3. Nothing wrong with the Castrol LMA DOT 4 available in almost any auto parts store.

waydui · 06-22-2009, 08:24 AM

According to the 2005 Elise Owners Manual you should use DOT 4 brake fluid.

I used Valvoline SynPower brake fluid until they discontinued it.

Now I use Valvoline DOT 3 & 4 Brake Fluid.

Regards,
Wayne

saudio · 06-22-2009, 08:26 AM

Thanks. Very helpful.

So the same fluid can be both DOT3 and DOT4. That's interesting.

fpitas · 06-22-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waydui

According to the 2005 Elise Owners Manual you should use DOT 4 brake fluid.

I used Valvoline SynPower brake fluid until they discontinued it.

Now I use Valvoline DOT 3 & 4 Brake Fluid.

Regards,
Wayne

I had been using the Valvoline, but recently they lowered the specs on boiling points, which was rather disappointing. Still nothing wrong with it.

Edit: that is, the new stuff is not as good as the Synpower.

fpitas · 06-22-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saudio

Thanks. Very helpful.

So the same fluid can be both DOT3 and DOT4. That's interesting.

It's a "meet or exceed" sort of thing.

TheViper · 06-22-2009, 08:30 AM

I only use Castrol GTLMA (exceeds DOT 3 & 4 specs.), because of what LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity"
Cheers,
Michael

waydui · 06-22-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saudio

Thanks. Very helpful.

So the same fluid can be both DOT3 and DOT4. That's interesting.

The only real difference between DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluid is the boiling point. All brake fluids must meet FMVSS116 minimum boiling points specification. DOT 4 is also less hygroscopic (less affinity for moisture).

FWIW, DOT 3 boiling point is 401 degrees F. DOT 4 is 446 degrees F.

Regards,
Wayne

TimMullen · 06-22-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheViper

I only use Castrol GTLMA (exceeds DOT 3 & 4 specs.), because of what LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity"

+1

I've been using the stuff forever, and have never had a fluid related problem with and brake or clutch system. It lasts a lot longer than "regular" brake fluid in those cases where I don't get to flushing the system as often as I'd like to...

elise/europa · 06-22-2009, 02:50 PM

It is more complex than that, and the DOT 3 or 4 or 5 do not refer to the boiling point.

You can have different DOT3 with completely different boiling point, from 300 F to 660 F.

Do not touch DOT5, the pedal will be spongy, but it is better for the paint if you drop the oil to the paint.

Now, which one, DOT 3 or 4. No big deal, take any of both. It is more a question of chemistery about sealing.

If you are heating the oil by braking hard, go with some cheap DOT3 Ford at 550F. If you race or you are doing track day, DOT3 or 4 with a boiling of 600 is more than enough. And if you are very gentle with the car, just respect the car spec witj usual DOT4 oil spec, without taking care of the boiling point.

Bane · 06-22-2009, 03:11 PM

I only use Motul RBF600 in the Elise.

Works great

Don't use DOT 5... it's silicon based and isn't compatible with DOT 3/4.

Pengineer91 · 06-22-2009, 06:39 PM

Many use ATE type 200 (amber colored) alternating with ATE Super Blue (Blue colored). It's basically the same stuff, just with different dyes. The change in color makes it easy to tell when you've flushed all the old fluid out. Both are DOT 4.

Having said that, Castrol LMA is a solid performer, and available just about anywhere.

TheViper · 06-22-2009, 06:47 PM

Unfortunately LMA was only available in my area at Pep Boys, no others carried it.
Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pengineer91

Many use ATE type 200 (amber colored) alternating with ATE Super Blue (Blue colored). It's basically the same stuff, just with different dyes. The change in color makes it easy to tell when you've flushed all the old fluid out. Both are DOT 4.

Having said that, Castrol LMA is a solid performer, and available just about anywhere.

Noel · 06-22-2009, 06:50 PM

I'm on Honda DOT4. No problems whatsoever, in fact, it was better than the OEM stuff from a performance perspective.

kestrel74 · 06-22-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pengineer91

Many use ATE type 200 (amber colored) alternating with ATE Super Blue (Blue colored). It's basically the same stuff, just with different dyes. The change in color makes it easy to tell when you've flushed all the old fluid out. Both are DOT 4.

Having said that, Castrol LMA is a solid performer, and available just about anywhere.

Super Blue all the way !

fpitas · 06-23-2009, 06:29 AM

Since we're discussing brake fluid:

Wikipedia.org - DOT 4

Wikipedia.org - Brake fluid

BTW, from my reading the new DOT 5.1 fluid might be a good choice: Wikipedia.org - DOT 5.1

The Motul DOT 5.1 is reasonably priced at about $7 for a 0.5 liter bottle.

Rennstore · 06-23-2009, 07:46 PM

Motul 600 - leaves NO stains as ATE BLue does and is a better fluid hands down than almost anything out there.
www.RennStore.com -- The source for Pagid brake pads

MugsyTheGr8 · 06-24-2009, 11:12 AM

here is an article from the stoptech homepage regarding brake fluid for those who want to learn more about it from a performance oriented standpoint.

it goes into the differences between dot standard and racing fluid as well as the advantages and weaknesses of different types of fluid.

OTB · 06-25-2009, 09:07 AM

It has always worked for me. If you track the car, I recommend it. If you don't, any dot4 would work for you for street/auto-x.

Ren Man · 06-25-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MugsyTheGr8

here is an article from the stoptech homepage regarding brake fluid for those who want to learn more about it from a performance oriented standpoint.

it goes into the differences between dot standard and racing fluid as well as the advantages and weaknesses of different types of fluid.

Taken from the article

As a trailing note on the DOT ratings, if your car was designed for a particular type of fluid (especially prior to the development of DOT 4 fluids), you should make every attempt to stick with that fluid! For example, if your car was delivered with DOT 3 fluid, the internal components of the system (seals, brake hoses, and fittings for example) were specifically designed and tested for compatibility with DOT 3. Because DOT 4 fluids contain a different chemical composition, the system may not necessarily react in a positive fashion to the borate esters floating around in the mix.

06-22-2009, 08:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
saudio Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 437	Brake fluid question I just called Criswell parts (Gaithersburg Lotus Dealer) asking about the proper brake fluid to use when I do a flush on my 2005 Elise. I was told that any DOT 4 fluid was fine. To get a more specific recommendation, I called Euroclassic parts (Richmond Lotus Dealer) and asked the same question. I was told that any DOT 3 fluid was fine. Could somebody tell me the correct answer, and perhaps recommend a brand that is commonly available? Thanks __________________ Driving lights and a Lidbone. Oh, and a supercharger.

06-22-2009, 08:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
fpitas User, Registered Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 1,826	DOT 4 is a "better" fluid, in that it has higher boiling points than DOT 3. Nothing wrong with the Castrol LMA DOT 4 available in almost any auto parts store. __________________ Francis 2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper 2000 Black Integra Type R: - 213,000 miles & needs rebuilding...

06-22-2009, 08:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
waydui GR8 SCAPE Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kirtland, Ohio Posts: 1,182	DOT 4 According to the 2005 Elise Owners Manual you should use DOT 4 brake fluid. I used Valvoline SynPower brake fluid until they discontinued it. Now I use Valvoline DOT 3 & 4 Brake Fluid. Regards, Wayne Attached Images __________________ _______________________ '05 Elise Magnetic Blue, Black, Touring, Hard Top, Star Shield, Stage II Exhaust, Arqray decat pipe, S2 Front Splitter (UK), Sector 111 Rear Tow Hook, Driving Lights, De-Snorkled, K&N Air Filter, Shift-I System, LSS Dampers & Springs, Sector 111 V-Bar, Schroth Profi II 5 point harness, Exige S Probax seats, 1/4 turn undertray screws, Stealth bulbs, BWR SC with PES tune, Innovative engine mounts, SS brake lines.

06-22-2009, 08:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
saudio Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 437	Thanks. Very helpful. So the same fluid can be both DOT3 and DOT4. That's interesting. __________________ Driving lights and a Lidbone. Oh, and a supercharger.

06-22-2009, 08:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
TheViper Alarmed & Dangerous Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boca Raton FL Posts: 3,190	I only use Castrol GTLMA (exceeds DOT 3 & 4 specs.), because of what LMA stands for "Low Moisture Activity" Cheers, Michael __________________ Cobra OEM - Alarm, Immobilizer, CDL Emergency Override with warranty Additional Emergency Touch Keys - see link above Brand New Cobra Alarm Remote with warranty Cobra Remote Key Fob Strap Cobra Window Closing Module - Add to your existing Cobra alarm 3 Piece Front Clam Protection Kit with Center Bumper Undertray Removal Tool INFORMATION Improved AC & Heating System Battery Choices & Information Remote Key Fob, Alarm & Immobilizer Programming Light Bulb Conversions 2005

06-22-2009, 02:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
elise/europa Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: montreal Posts: 345	It is more complex than that, and the DOT 3 or 4 or 5 do not refer to the boiling point. You can have different DOT3 with completely different boiling point, from 300 F to 660 F. Do not touch DOT5, the pedal will be spongy, but it is better for the paint if you drop the oil to the paint. Now, which one, DOT 3 or 4. No big deal, take any of both. It is more a question of chemistery about sealing. If you are heating the oil by braking hard, go with some cheap DOT3 Ford at 550F. If you race or you are doing track day, DOT3 or 4 with a boiling of 600 is more than enough. And if you are very gentle with the car, just respect the car spec witj usual DOT4 oil spec, without taking care of the boiling point. __________________ ____________________________________ Elise 2006, white, Katana Europa 1969, green, H22A, 194 whp, 1550# CONFIGTECH.ca / Solidworks

06-22-2009, 03:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bane . Join Date: May 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 2,960 Images: 4	I only use Motul RBF600 in the Elise. Works great Don't use DOT 5... it's silicon based and isn't compatible with DOT 3/4. __________________ $599 PPE header (INFO) 2007 BMW 335i - Mostly stock un-Official LotusTalk Stealth Bulb provider *6* sets in stock!

06-22-2009, 06:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Pengineer91 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern NH Posts: 95	Many use ATE type 200 (amber colored) alternating with ATE Super Blue (Blue colored). It's basically the same stuff, just with different dyes. The change in color makes it easy to tell when you've flushed all the old fluid out. Both are DOT 4. Having said that, Castrol LMA is a solid performer, and available just about anywhere.

06-22-2009, 06:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
Noel Exige Cup 255 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: 33.87°S 151.21°E Car: ロータス MKII エキシージ Type: Komo-Tec S300 Posts: 324	I'm on Honda DOT4. No problems whatsoever, in fact, it was better than the OEM stuff from a performance perspective.

06-23-2009, 06:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
fpitas User, Registered Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 1,826	Since we're discussing brake fluid: Wikipedia.org - DOT 4 Wikipedia.org - Brake fluid BTW, from my reading the new DOT 5.1 fluid might be a good choice: Wikipedia.org - DOT 5.1 The Motul DOT 5.1 is reasonably priced at about $7 for a 0.5 liter bottle. __________________ Francis 2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper 2000 Black Integra Type R: - 213,000 miles & needs rebuilding... Last edited by fpitas : 06-23-2009 at 08:23 AM.

06-23-2009, 07:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
Rennstore Living for track days Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 286	Motul 600 - leaves NO stains as ATE BLue does and is a better fluid hands down than almost anything out there. www.RennStore.com -- The source for Pagid brake pads __________________ Craig

06-24-2009, 11:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
MugsyTheGr8 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3	here is an article from the stoptech homepage regarding brake fluid for those who want to learn more about it from a performance oriented standpoint. it goes into the differences between dot standard and racing fluid as well as the advantages and weaknesses of different types of fluid.

06-25-2009, 09:07 AM	#19 (permalink)
OTB Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 98	RBF600 here too... It has always worked for me. If you track the car, I recommend it. If you don't, any dot4 would work for you for street/auto-x.

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