Brake pedal revisted again

[cgomez]

Originally Posted by JWA

This thing is REALLY tight. I got a wrench on the clevis and another on the nut, but I couldn't get it to budge with either hand and I couldn't get two arms down there in the right orientation to do it with both. This sucker's tight.

After two hours of a 6'1" human being squeezed in such a tight spot I call it quits!
Pictures and instruction from this thread make it prety clear of what needs to be done, but it can't be executed (by me)!
Adjusting tightening the bushing to decrease squishiness is straight forward. But loosening the 17mm nut to adjust the pushrod lenght has been impossible! Almost felt compelled to disassemble the dashboard or front end of the car just b/c of frustation. Tried holding the 17mm and holding the pushrod with the 10mm in a finger single hand acrobatic maneouver. Just couldn't do it!
Am I missing something? or should just go for the Shino Pad?

[Stan]

>>>After two hours of a 6'1" human being squeezed in such a tight spot I call it quits! Pictures and instruction from this thread make it prety clear of what needs to be done, but it can't be executed (by me)!
Adjusting tightening the bushing to decrease squishiness is straight forward. But loosening the 17mm nut to adjust the pushrod lenght has been impossible! Almost felt compelled to disassemble the dashboard or front end of the car just b/c of frustation. Tried holding the 17mm and holding the pushrod with the 10mm in a finger single hand acrobatic maneouver. Just couldn't do it! Am I missing something? or should just go for the Shino Pad?<<<

I shoulda done it for ya when we met up at Lime Rock! I'm about 5' 10 180 # and lay on my back from the passenger side, feet up by the roll bar or out the passenger door opening. I come at the 17 mm lock nut from it's LHS. No problem. You can unlock the two items if tight with one hand by placing them so that a squeeze moves either in the proper direction. Or you can brace one against something which will hold it and then work the other.

Also check out Lotus suggestions for the gas pedal. Basically you replace the rubber upstop with a 5mm x 15 mm bolt with 3 washers under it. This makes the pedal's rest position about 8/10 inch lower. You replace the 40 mm downstop bolt (the one on the back of the gas pedal pad with the black rubber on it) with a 20 mm item and readjust the cable at the throttle body. While you're at it you can adjust the throttle closed stop to improve the idle.

Some PICs:

1) Note Lower Gas Pedal Height:



2) Hardware to change Gas Pedal Height:

[andykeck]

Originally Posted by cgomez

After two hours of a 6'1" human being squeezed in such a tight spot I call it quits!
Pictures and instruction from this thread make it prety clear of what needs to be done, but it can't be executed (by me)!
Adjusting tightening the bushing to decrease squishiness is straight forward. But loosening the 17mm nut to adjust the pushrod lenght has been impossible! Almost felt compelled to disassemble the dashboard or front end of the car just b/c of frustation. Tried holding the 17mm and holding the pushrod with the 10mm in a finger single hand acrobatic maneouver. Just couldn't do it!
Am I missing something? or should just go for the Shino Pad?

Were you lying on the driver side or the passenger side? From the passenger side I found it to be pretty easy. I'm a little shorter that you but not by that much. I also found that because of the angle and the shallow depth of the lock nut it was easy to misalign the wrench so that it grabbed part of the pushrod at the same time as the nut, making it impossible to turn.

[hpman]

Originally Posted by cgomez

After two hours of a 6'1" human being squeezed in such a tight spot I call it quits!
Pictures and instruction from this thread make it prety clear of what needs to be done, but it can't be executed (by me)!
Adjusting tightening the bushing to decrease squishiness is straight forward. But loosening the 17mm nut to adjust the pushrod lenght has been impossible! Almost felt compelled to disassemble the dashboard or front end of the car just b/c of frustation. Tried holding the 17mm and holding the pushrod with the 10mm in a finger single hand acrobatic maneouver. Just couldn't do it!
Am I missing something? or should just go for the Shino Pad?

Remove your drivers seat. Just 4 bolts, 5 min max, then you can get in there & not worry about getting stuck.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by Stan

you replace the rubber upstop with a 5mm x 15 mm bolt with 3 washers under it.

Stan, is the hole threaded after you remove the rubber upstop? I was wondering about the possibility of putting a jam nut on the other side of the bracket to make the upstop adjustable (like the one in my '72 Elan)?

[Stan]

>>>Stan, is the hole threaded after you remove the rubber upstop? I was wondering about the possibility of putting a jam nut on the other side of the bracket to make the upstop adjustable (like the one in my '72 Elan)?<<<

No it's just a hole....so you need a nut and washer for retention besides the 3 for hitting the 7mm spec. When you make this adjustment, the throttle cable is basically maxed out adjustment wise. It gets the gas pedal as low as possible without the need to change out other parts.

However, this aforementioned hole goes through a bent sheet metal bracket...which can be slightly bent as required for slight changes.

[cgomez]

Thanks Stan and others for the feedback.
Tiried all the time from passneger side b/c there's no chance I fit from the driver's side b/c my chest doesn't fit between the steeering and seat (I tried... it was painful).
Will cry for help next time I see one of you guys at an event.
Anyone going to Pocono tomorrow?

Maybe the throttle pedal adjustment will be the easier fix. My brake pedal was already adjusted by HRM before my first track event last saturday. It felt OK (not perfect, but OK) at the beginning but by the end of the day the pedal was going down again beyond the throttle position (due to pad wear). Switched to new track pads and the pedal is up again, so it should be fine for half of tomorrow's track event (Got the Shino Pad in the meantime).

[ChrisH]

Just find a small friend, neighbor, or family member that will do it for you with the promise to give them a ride (or even let them drive ) as a reward.

[cgomez]

Originally Posted by MyElise

Doesn't happen. Air in brake lines, hot expanding hoses maybe but not pad wear.

But then why the pedal is not going as far now with new pads?
Could this be the case or is it just the feel that the Porterfield R4 have better bite?

Nevertheless just installed the HnT Shino Pad and it does the trick.

Just to summarize, I think my pedal has already been adjusted to some extent and I can easily and confrotably HnT under normal or even agressive driving conditions. However, at the track when braking at 100% there's no way I can reach the throttle pedal during prolonged braking situations b/c the brake pedal goes way further than the throttle pedal neutral position. Only way I could HnT would be if learn to blip the throttle using my ankle!

I think the real problem is not the adjustment itself or position of the pedals but the fact the Elise power brakes have too much travel (I've heard many others complain). It was a first for Lotus in tHe Elise so I expect future versions or revisions should improve this. I'm OK living with this compromise b/c of the benefit of having ABS.

[Chococar]

Originally Posted by Stan

>>>When you make this adjustment, the throttle cable is basically maxed out adjustment wise. It gets the gas pedal as low as possible without the need to change out other parts.

However, this aforementioned hole goes through a bent sheet metal bracket...which can be slightly bent as required for slight changes.

Here's a new bracket that allows the accelerator pedal to go all the way to the floor.

[Stan]

Don't forget that you can also fiddle with the upstop bracket at the gas pedal...the one it rests against when your foot is off of it. You can pull up on it causing the bracket to bend a slight bit. You may only need a little as the up-stop bracket is so close to the pedal pivot. You need to make sure that the first 2-3 mm of gas pedal movement is used to take up cable slack. Else, among other things, it's harder on the cable. And the idle being set by the tension on the cable. Which can lead to things like check engine lights and driveability woes.

[Stan]

>>>You also have to make sure that you are just touching the full throttle stop when the pedal stop reaches the floor. This is accomplished by adjusting the cable at the cam. You need short 17mm wrenches to loosen it or a small monkey wrench. I think that I did a bit better than the factory as the car feels and sounds a bit stronger at WOT. But then don't they feel faster after you wash 'em? Thanks for the tip Stan!<<<

Glad I could help! I used a shower curtain rod as a throttle presser...so that I could adjust the rod so that one end had the gas pedal floored and the other pressed against the lower part of the seat back. To hold the pedal floored, that is. That way I could check that the thing hit WOT at the throttle body and that the stop under the pedal with the rubber cap over the head of the bolt prevented excessive stress on the throttle cable.

The up stop bracket sees very little stress...it may last just fine but is certainly not carved from cast iron!

[mpadgett]

Thanks to all for the guidance and advice. Only took 15 minutes for the pushrod adjustment, bushing tweak and a brake light switch adjustment. (6'2", from the passenger side) A quick test drive showed that the brake pedal position is much, much better.

[NtflBlueLiz]

Originally Posted by Stan

>>>Also check out Lotus suggestions for the gas pedal. Basically you replace the rubber upstop with a 5mm x 15 mm bolt with 3 washers under it. This makes the pedal's rest position about 8/10 inch lower. You replace the 40 mm downstop bolt (the one on the back of the gas pedal pad with the black rubber on it) with a 20 mm item and readjust the cable at the throttle body. While you're at it you can adjust the throttle closed stop to improve the idle.

Some PICs:

1) Note Lower Gas Pedal Height:



2) Hardware to change Gas Pedal Height:

Stan,

I have a question. You list the size for the upstop bolt replacement as 5x15mm but the downstop as a just a 20mm bolt (length). What is the diameter of this bolt? I am trying to do this mod this week if possible.

Thanks!

[Stan]

>>>I have a question. You list the size for the upstop bolt replacement as 5x15mm but the downstop as a just a 20mm bolt (length). What is the diameter of this bolt? I am trying to do this mod this week if possible<<<

Here ya go Fred. This is the information straight from Lotus: See step 6 for details. These bits and related stuff is readily available dirt cheap in your local hardware store. If it's over 2 bucks you were really ripped off! HTH. I think you mentioned elsewhere that you had an upcoming track event...if I were you I'd do this a few days beforehand so that you can become accustomed to the change. Basically the rubber upstop gets yanked out of the hole and the bolt head with washers under it go in, head towards the gas pedal. Nut and washer on other end to retain the deal. The stock 8 X 40 mm bolt gets replaced by the 8 X 20 MM bolt and the rubber tip gets plopped onto it's head. The throttle cable length gets set along the way, and you should ensure adequate cable slack, no gas pedal, and that WOT is achieved when the pedal is floored. So you'll be working down by the gas pedal and over by the throttle body on the engine.

[NtflBlueLiz]

Stan,
Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for! I'm going to go get the bolts right now!

[Stan]

>>Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for! I'm going to go get the bolts right now!<<<

Glad I could help...you'll need 5 mm washers and a nut or two for the upstop stuff. But the pedal downstop can reuse the two stock flanged nuts already on your gas pedal. Normal metric threads for the two bolt sizes, no special grade is needed as this is a low-required-strength appplication.

[Steve]

Stan, another question from a grateful fan

How did you get the rivet out of the brake pedal? Can't fit my drill in there to drill it out. Tried going at it with a hacksaw blade, with limited success and much discomfort. I really want to move the pedal over at least one notch closer to the throttle pedal.

And is that a sheet metal screw replacing the rivet?

Thanks for your advice, Steve

[Stan]

>>>Stan, another question from a grateful fan How did you get the rivet out of the brake pedal? Can't fit my drill in there to drill it out. Tried going at it with a hacksaw blade, with limited success and much discomfort. I really want to move the pedal over at least one notch closer to the throttle pedal.
And is that a sheet metal screw replacing the rivet? Thanks for your advice, Steve<<<

Hi Steve! I just reached in from the side and snipped off the portion in the cavity of the extrusion. Then pressed down from above and voila. You can alsoi hand-drill one out by holding a drill bit and turning it by hand or using a 90 degree tool. An common sheet metal screw from an assortment works fine for retention. Try the gas pedal height mod too!

[fzust]

Wow! This mod was totally worth it. I actually feel like I can heel/toe this car like my M3! Many thanks!