Dedicated track tires vs. all-around tires

[Purist]

Hey folks,

I'm trying to decide between running an all-around tire for both street and autocross/track-day use and getting extra wheels and running dedicated track tires and non-R-compounds for the street. If I went with the single tire solution it would probably be RA1s. The two-tire solution would probably be 15/16 Kumho 710s or Hoosier A6s (open to opinions on the selection) and the street tires would be something fairly cheap.

I'm on a fairly tight budget, so the single tire solution is appealing for that, but I'm curious if the extra tread life I'd get with street tires would significantly offset the cost of the wheels and higher cost of the track tires.

I'd love to hear from people who have tried both approaches. A lot of it will depend on how cheap I can get the wheels...what's the going rate for a beat up 15/16 set?

Thanks,
Tom

[lancer360]

Ok, these are VERY crude numbers but it would only take 11,250 miles to pay for a set of $1800 wheels (Volk CE28's) if you ran a combo of Bridgestone RE01R's and RA1's versus the A048's.

This is based on rough numbers of:

A048 = $1000/set at 4,000 mile life
RE01R = $750/set at 15,000 mile life
RA1 = $700/set at 4,000 mile life.

This is assuming a ratio of 2/3 driving on street tires and 1/3 driving on race tires (track and autocross).

I chose these tires as this is what I run and am very happy with it.

Do not run the Hoosier A6 if you plan on doing track events. You will destroy them. They are way to soft and should only be used for autocross. You can however use the Hoosier R6 for dual use, but you will be giving up some traction at the autocross compared to the A6.

[kaz]

I've been using shaved RA-1's 15/16 for both duties and love them. They last forever and don't seem ti heat cycle out.

[CosmosMpower]

There's no way you'll get 15000 miles out of a set of RE-01R. I'd say 5000 tops, maybe 3000 if you autocross and street drive them. We're halfway through a pair of rears almost on the S2000 at 2000 miles, the fronts last twice as long.

While you can drive the RA1's on the street I wouldn't use them as street tires all the time, they get really noisy after you race on them. It'd probably be worth it to pickup a second set of factory wheels and put RA1's on those and just run street tires on the original wheels. Dedicated almost always lasts longer than double duty.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

There's no way you'll get 15000 miles out of a set of RE-01R. I'd say 5000 tops, maybe 3000 if you autocross and street drive them. We're halfway through a pair of rears almost on the S2000 at 2000 miles, the fronts last twice as long.

While you can drive the RA1's on the street I wouldn't use them as street tires all the time, they get really noisy after you race on them. It'd probably be worth it to pickup a second set of factory wheels and put RA1's on those and just run street tires on the original wheels. Dedicated almost always lasts longer than double duty.

The RA1 does not come in a size that is ideal for the front factory wheels.

I am also not aware of any tire noise. If there is any, it certainly isn't enough to drown out the engine/exhaust noise.

xtn

[lancer360]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

There's no way you'll get 15000 miles out of a set of RE-01R. I'd say 5000 tops, maybe 3000 if you autocross and street drive them. We're halfway through a pair of rears almost on the S2000 at 2000 miles, the fronts last twice as long.

Wow, 5K tops for RE01R's!?!? I have only had mine for a around 2K and I think I will get a lot more than 5K out of them (15K was just a guess, maybe 10K is more realistic). I do run the twisties with them, but no autocross or track days. They are strictly for the street.

[Purist]

Thanks for the input.

How does the RA-1 favor compared to the R6 and 710 for track/autocross? By the time you have them shaved, the price is about the same.

I didn't realize that the RA-1 doesn't come in factory sizes...that could alter the equation a bit. Does that mean that the A048 is the only option for using a single tire unless I switch to 15/16?

My opinion on street tires is that you can't exceed the limits of even just a decent performance tire without doing something incredibly unsafe or venturing into huge ticket territory, so I tend to shop for street tires that offer the most bang for the buck instead of the best performer. Any opinions on what tires fits that description for the Elise with 16/17s?

Thanks again,
Tom

[ace10]

Originally Posted by Purist

...I didn't realize that the RA-1 doesn't come in factory sizes...that could alter the equation a bit. Does that mean that the A048 is the only option for using a single tire unless I switch to 15/16?
...

depends on your usage bias but in 16/17 and more street-oriented, you could use the bridgestone re-01r (not an r compound) or use the base lotus yoko ad07 (with the underwidthed fronts in 195). those are but two of the options.

[Purist]

Yeah...don't think I like either of those options. Starting to look more and more like dedicated track tires are the way to go.

[elise/europa]

I think that it is a question of your personnal speed on curve.

The first time I used my Elise on the track, I was using the Nuova (stock, street) Tire. I was sliding quite a lot, but I was surprised about the traction.

I remember that when I was following many car on the track, many were using track tire like RA1, Hoosier or equivalent. But many were driving very slow into the curve, and it was clear for me that it was just a waste of money and tire, and they should use standard tire.

In my case, I am faster with my RA1, sliding a around the track. This is me, and that's good for me.

But if somebody is driving slower, I think that a less agressive compound have more sense, but look less sexy during discussion.

[LarryB]

My first question is what are you running now? The ad07 are a good street tire and pretty darn good for the track. The 048 are pretty good track tires- but don't last as long and can heat cycle, before you wear them out.

For me, have and use the 048 for track mostly. Picked up a set of Rota wheels in 15/16" (cost ~1/2 of the next cheapest 15/16" wheels) and full thread RA1. Mainly for street but have done some track days on them. If your not going DOT r-compound tires will you be towing or have having someone else bring them along for track / autox days? If so, sure more of a full slicks is a good way to go.

Nice thing with RA1's (with more then 4/32 thread) they are a pretty good wet / street tire. Cost for a set is about 2/3 of the 048, they tend to stay constant until they've worn all the thread off.

[Purist]

A little background: I have an 05 with sport package and all the camber shims removed. I had new rears (A048) put on in the spring and just corded one of them (almost 5,000 miles and almost an entire season of auto-x) right down the middle. The outsides still had some decent tread left. I guess 29 psi was too much, eh?

I'm an advanced enough driver to take advantage of a good R-compound tire, so I don't want to run a street tire for auto-x and track use. What are the best sizes available in a 15/16 setup for the R6, 710, and RA-1?

[Johnny B]

For those of you running Bridgestone RE01R's, what sizes are you using?

[jlee]

But it depends how many miles you put on the street vs the track right ?

I mean if you do 4-5 events a year but drive the car everyday, i would think your tire choice would be street geared like the Toyo T1-S or something...

putting r compounds on a daily driver is an expensive proposition..

Jeff

[ace10]

Originally Posted by Johnny B

For those of you running Bridgestone RE01R's, what sizes are you using?

here's the primary discussion thread for that tire:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36849

i think there were a couple of combinations.

[FlyLo]

You will save money in the long run by getting the Rota wheels and RA1s for autocross.

Street tires will last longer on the street. Especially if they aren't AD07.

RA1s (or similar) will peform much better on the track.

Street tires underperform and wear more quickly when pushed hard. But in truth an autocross just isn't that much, so the primary complaint will be performance.

R-compounds will wear prematurely on the street.

[slipstream]

Originally Posted by Johnny B

For those of you running Bridgestone RE01R's, what sizes are you using?

205's on the front, 245's on the rear. No rubbing.

[Purist]

What's people's experience with the longevity of Hoosier R6s versus RA-1s? I'm thinking that if I'm going to go with dedicated track tires, may as well go all the way. They're not much more expensive when you factor in the shaving of RA-1s.

Tom

[FlyLo]

"It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and possibly injury or death."

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....r&tireModel=R6

[lancer360]

You have two options for sizes with the RA1's. I'm running the 225/245 setup and from what I gather most people think it is too much tire up front for a 7" wide wheel. Here is a good discussion I had with Nick Adams at the Lotus Track Day at VIR.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45220

If you want the car more biased towards understeer you can run the 205/245 setup. If you want more oversteer you can run the 205/225 setup. Comes down to personal preference.