Excessive Runout - LSS Rims

[MaineLotus]

After battling with vibration problems since the purchase of my Elise, I finally tracked down a tire shop equipped with a Hunter RoadForce wheel balancer. The diagnosis is excessive runout (out of round) on all four rims. The runout varies between .035 and .045 - the front rims are the worse. According to the shop, the acceptable limit for cars is below .015 and Trucks - below .025.

I've read a number of posts complaining of vibration problems, anyone else have LSS rims that are not round? I think I'm stuck buying four new expensive rims, I doubt Lotus will believe that the rims were like this new and honor a warranty claim. I'm confident I did not bend the rims - I'm very careful with my car and it's driven on the relatively smooth roads of South Florida. I should have addressed the issue after I took delivery of the car. I did have the wheels balanced shortly after delivery and the tire shop thought it was a characteristic of the tires.

Is it possible Lotus has a batch of rims that were not round from their supplier? Or perhaps the rims are very soft and bend?

[lancer360]

I don't think it will be that difficult to get them covered under warrenty. Typically if you bend a rim you either bend both fronts (along with front clam damage) or both left or both right and subsequent suspension damage. The odds that you bent all four rims with no damage to the car is a VERY far fetched and I think you have a pretty good case. Regardless it doesn't hurt to try, the worse they can say is no.

Good luck!

[xtn]

The balancing unit you describe is equipped to actually measure runout of the wheel itself? I'm only asking because on my car there certainly is a lot of runout, but it's all in the tire, not the wheel.

xtn

[lancer360]

Measuring wheel runout is not that uncommon. If the machine will measure tire runout it should easily do wheel runout. That is how you check for bent rims if it is subtle that you can't tell with the naked eye.

[xtn]

Yeah I know it's not uncommon to measure it, I just don't know if the particular machine used to check MiamiLotus' wheels/tires actually measure wheel runout, or if it just produced a runout figure and MiamiLotus assumed it was a wheel measurement.

If a wheel is properly mounted and centered, spinning on a machine, wheel (or tire) runout of four hundredths should be visible to the naked eye I would think.

Granted, my tire runout was over 1/8 inch, but it was obvious from across the room!

xtn

xtn

[MaineLotus]

The machine measured rim runout and a combination of tire and rim. I suppose you could subtract rim runout from the combination to arrive at the tire runout. My tires are fairly new (< 1,000 miles), I may have ruined them by running on bad rims.

I could visibly see the runout on two of the rims when spinning on the balancer.

[carl]

had the same thing on the elise i had the factory spec is .008 mine were .040.i used a dial indicator to measure put on a set of SSRs that were round problem gone. like i've said before some of the LSS wheels are like eggs.carl

[MaineLotus]

Like "eggs" - yup, my rims are oblong too. I'm surprised they could have come from the factory like this.

[lancer360]

Tire runout can be subjective since tires are by nature flexible and will take the shape of the rim to some degree.

[pianomaniac]

Originally Posted by MiamiLotus

Like "eggs" - yup, my rims are oblong too. I'm surprised they could have come from the factory like this.

They're made in Russia.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by xtn

The balancing unit you describe is equipped to actually measure runout of the wheel itself? I'm only asking because on my car there certainly is a lot of runout, but it's all in the tire, not the wheel.

xtn

Yes, the Hunter RoadForce 9700 balancing machine can measure both wheel/tire assembly and wheel run out. Of course, you need to remove the tire to measure the wheel (inner and outer) run out using the machine's special scribe as the wheel is slowly rotated and then the run out figure is flashed on the machine's computer screen.

[MaineLotus]

The technician working on my wheels measured the wheel runout with the tire mounted. He positioned the scribe on the inside of the rim. I'd assume this would also read properly, unless of course the shell is of varying thickness.

[Buz]

I do not think that you will have any problem getting out of round wheels replaced under warranty. If they are bent the outer rim will show damage. Out of round tires are more common but harder to get replaced under warranty.

[R'elise Me]

Seriously, if this is a case of then the discussion should be about a possible factory recall, let alone a warranty issue. If all 4 rims are out of round or runout on one car with no accident history the factory should take the claim very seriously. These are not cheap wheels and personally, given their visible frailty, I've always wondered whether they were too underengineered and light for their purpose. THere's another recent thread about a cracked LSS rim and apparently some of you are having similar runout issues. Whether this is a factory blunder or not, it seems to me LSS wheels may be on their way out already.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by MiamiLotus

The technician working on my wheels measured the wheel runout with the tire mounted. He positioned the scribe on the inside of the rim. I'd assume this would also read properly, unless of course the shell is of varying thickness.

That's the fast and dirty way -- right way--inner and outer w/no tire on the rim, but that's a more time consuming process.

[MaineLotus]

Originally Posted by Jack

That's the fast and dirty way -- right way--inner and outer w/no tire on the rim, but that's a more time consuming process.

Given the fact that my wheels are so far out of round, do you think the fast and dirty way was accurate enough? I don't know, just trying to be scientific in my analysis of the problem. My uneducated guess is that the rims are so far out, it will not matter whether the tires are removed or not.

[MaineLotus]

Originally Posted by R'elise Me

Seriously, if this is a case of then the discussion should be about a possible factory recall, let alone a warranty issue. If all 4 rims are out of round or runout on one car with no accident history the factory should take the claim very seriously. These are not cheap wheels and personally, given their visible frailty, I've always wondered whether they were too underengineered and light for their purpose. THere's another recent thread about a cracked LSS rim and apparently some of you are having similar runout issues. Whether this is a factory blunder or not, it seems to me LSS wheels may be on their way out already.

Well, I agree - but I can already guess the conversation with the Service Manager at the Lotus dealer:

Me: "Hi, I have four bent rims, they've always been a problem since I bought the car in 2005. Can you replace them under warranty?"

Service Manager: "Ah, right. These are low profile tire, you must have hit something in the road. Lotus doesn't cover accident damage."

I had a similiar issue when I lost a turn signal lamp - it flew out while driving down the highway (know issue with plastic tabs breaking). I called the dealer (Prestige in Miami), the service manager immediately said "Something probably hit the lamp, we can't cover accident damage."

[Jack]

Originally Posted by MiamiLotus

Given the fact that my wheels are so far out of round, do you think the fast and dirty way was accurate enough? I don't know, just trying to be scientific in my analysis of the problem. My uneducated guess is that the rims are so far out, it will not matter whether the tires are removed or not.

I think your educated guess is correct.

[lancer360]

It doesn't hurt to ask about getting them replaced. I think it would be pretty hard to bend these rims especially all four without some other form of visible damage. Give it a shot. The worst they can say is no.

[MaineLotus]

Originally Posted by lancer360

It doesn't hurt to ask about getting them replaced. I think it would be pretty hard to bend these rims especially all four without some other form of visible damage. Give it a shot. The worst they can say is no.

I agree and will try tomorrow.